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LCD Overtaking CRT

prostoalex writes "IDC has a new report out, claiming that revenues for LCDs by the end of this year will top the CRT revenues. The only market not susceptible to the shift will be gaming and graphics-intensive applications, where the refresh rates of LCDs are not satisfactory yet."

16 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. Graphics Design by Keighvin · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the graphics design realm it's rarely about refresh rates (unless you're working specifically with animation or motion media production). The color calibration just isn't there yet, the level threshold dropps off at the bottom (reducing the low luminosity contrast) and turns to glare far too low in the histogram (almost eliminating useful high-luminosity contrast).

    They're also sensitive to heat, both from the operating environment and duration of use causing further shifts in appreciable color and (perceived) refresh.

    OLED display's promise to eliminate the contrast and color calibration issues, but until those are more viable in cost and lifetime graphics design will still rely alost solely on CRT's.

    --
    Any spoon would be too big.
    1. Re:Graphics Design by Visigothe · · Score: 5, Informative

      While what you say is true, it seems that there are some companies that are trying to do something about colour accuracy. Apple for instance sells SWAP certified LCDs. The monitors that are SWAP certified are *quite* good, and the technology will only improve, get cheaper, and trickle down to the smaller LCDs.

      I've proofed on one of the SWAP monitors, and *damn* Quite nice. Of course, all ouput is different, YMMV, etc.

  2. Re:Makes sense by Pxtl · · Score: 4, Informative

    While I agree with you (I only use an LCD because I won it in a draw) keep in mind that LCD screens of the same recorded dimension are actually larger then CRT's. LCD's are not larger then the viewable screen, while CRT's measure the total size of the picture tube, which is substantially larger then the viewable screen. Therefore, add at least an inch (2 is better) to the size of the LCD when comparing them to a CRT.

    That being said, I hate the lack of variable resolution on LCD's. Can't have everything, I guess.

  3. Re:Burned out pixels suck by aksansai · · Score: 5, Informative

    The performance and reliability of LCDs compared with CRTs is a big factor in bolstering revenue for the LCD market. Sure, LCD screens are more expensive - but the benefits of LCD screens over CRTs, in my opinion, are worth the additional money (savings in energy, ease of long-term viewing on the eyes, etc.)

    Many manufacturers guarantee their LCDs from burned out pixels with a pixel defect policy. The policies will differ as to the amount of defect will warrant a free replacement, and you should check to see the duration of terms of the policy prior to making a decision.

    In fact, Tom's Hardware Guide posted a recent article with regards to pixel displays. You can find the article here: http://www17.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/lcd _pixels-01.html

    --
    Ayup
  4. Re:Burned out pixels suck by tchuladdiass · · Score: 5, Informative

    Check out tomshardware.com, they have an article on manufactures replacement policies for burned out pixels. Basically, the policies are all accross the board. Also, they make a distinction between an "unlit" pixel (black), and a "stuck" pixel (always on). Personally, I can put up with an unlit pixel at the edge of a screen, but I had a laptop once that had a couple of red pixels towards the middle, and it drove me bonkers.

  5. My resolution gripe by swb · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...with LCDs is that they're generally lower res at a given size than I'd run an equivilent-sized CRT at. In other words, I can crank a CRT to a higher display resolution than an LCD can.

    To get the res I'm used to on a 21" CRT (1920x1440), I need some $3k 24" LCD display.

    1. Re:My resolution gripe by captaineo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Low- and mid-range CRTs aren't usually capable of resolving pixels at their maximum rated resolution, whereas LCDs by definition always draw perfect pixels at their nominal resolution. (even my top-of-the-line 21" Sony CRT works great at 1280x1024 but the pixels go to fuzz at 1600x1200).

      From a signal-processing standpoint, it might actually be preferable to have pixels drawn as overlapping blobs rather than perfect squares, but squares will always look sharper to most viewers than blobs.

  6. Refresh rates != response time by Comrade+Brightski · · Score: 5, Informative

    "...where the refresh rates of LCDs are not satisfactory yet."

    I believe the poster is mistakenly trying to apply CRT terminology to LCDs. The refresh rate of a CRT, which is the number of times an image is painted on the screen per second, doesn't quite apply to LCDs. What does apply, however, is the response time. This is usually measured in ms and refers to the time period for a pixel to completely change its state. Response times are typically around 25 ms, but are often slower for black -> white transitions. Slow response gives the effect known as ghosting and makes these panels undesirable to gamers.

    As for the graphics artists, it's kind of a mixed bag. They get perfect geometries as a trade off for true color. Most modern LCDs operate at only 24 bit color.

    The office user/casual gamer makes up the vast majority of the population and won't notice any of these downfalls. Thus, despite the price, these things are selling like hotcakes due to the easiness on the eyes and uber-coolness. Besides, chicks dig em. ;)

    --
    "Software is like sex. It's better when it's free." -Linus Torvalds
  7. Re:refresh rates by redgren · · Score: 5, Informative

    Refresh rates don't make sense on an LCD... The parameter you need to look at is the Rise/Fall time of the pixels (also known as response time). The pixels don't change unless they need to, whereas for CRTs, every pixel on the screen is being redrawn (60 times a second at 60Hz, obviously)

    The response times are getting faster and cheaper, but still leave a bit to be desired.

    The total response time of a pixel can be (typically) anywhere from 15ms to 40ms for an LCD monitor. Most are between 25 and 35. 30ms response time is pretty much average. If the whole screen is changing quickly (think fast FPS gaming), you would only be getting the equivalant of 33Hz or so. At 15ms (for considerably more $$), you are looking at an analogous 66Hz refresh.

    Most of the hardcore gamers I know don't like less than 85Hz on their CRTs, so still lots of room for improvement on the LCDs.

  8. Re:Makes sense by niko9 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Check out IBM's new L200p 21" LCD. 1600x1200 native, 400:1 brightness, and only 1349 USD w/ 3yr warranty.

    This baby just came out last week.

  9. Re:refresh rates by CTho9305 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The 85Hz on a CRT is different. This is because the CRT flickers - and many people can perceive this flicker at 60Hz. However, 60fps is as smooth as it gets. An LCD has a constant light, so it doesn't flicker. All you need is 60 updates per second to redraw all the pixels, and then you get a smooth, flicker-free image.

  10. Already there for games by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can get a 17" LCD from Hitachi with a 12ms refresh rate. At 60fps, 1 frame is 16.67ms, so this is good enough.

  11. Re:How often do you move your monitor by SensitiveMale · · Score: 3, Informative

    I rarely move my monitor. Actually never.

    If you like a high refresh rate then you will LOVE an LCD. As much as you don't want to hear it, and LCD is MUCH better on your eyes mainly because of the refresh rate. Because if a pixel doesn't change color, then the refresh rate is infinitely fast. That is why LCDs shouldbe set at a refresh rate of 60 Hz. No more headaches for you. EVER.

    And I have yet to see any ghosting on my Dell FP2000 or my sgi 1600SW. Cheap LCDs may ghost though.

    I'm sure brightness is the same or close to a CRT, but picture geometry can't come close. On my LCD every line is PERFECTLY straight. No CRT can claim that. And 2 years from now, every line will still be perfectly straight.

    Other nice things include 4 inputs on my FP2000; DVI, analog, S-video, composite. And I can watch the S-video or composite signals for Picture in Picture inside the DVI or analog screen. Very nice.

    About the only thing CRTs have over LCDs in color trueness. But LCDs are catching up fast and this really only applies to graphic designers who need to use perfectly color calibrated monitors.

    Still kinda funny you said not to mention 'better eye sight' and 'I get a headache' in the same sentence.

  12. Re:Burned out pixels suck by SirTwitchALot · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not terribly difficult,

    If something (a speck of dust perhaps) was blocking the aperature grille, the electron beam would never reach the Phosphor to illuminate it. Dirty manufacturing facilities could be to blame. You don't see this often because manufacturers check for this sort of thing, and don't generally let defective CRT's leave the factory.

    --
    Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
  13. I am not a technician... by Junta · · Score: 3, Informative

    But from using, I can guess why. With CRT, there is no harm in allowing both high and low resolutions, the lower resolutions are not impacted quality wise just because the monitor can go really high. With LCD displays, it is a much different story, anything smaller than the LCD native resolution will be scaled by the monitor (or shrunk to a smaller area) by some digital scaling technique. While you can have some pretty effective techniques with digital scaling, anything with detail (i.e. text) is a bit distorted and strange looking no matter the technique used. Thus, there is a greater emphasis on having a resolution that would look the best to the most amount of people. Add to this that dead pixels become much more of a problem as the resolution increases (probability increases, and even at 1920x1440 a dead pixel is noticeable), not to mention cost is more directly impacted by the pixel count.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  14. Re:not only reason... by adolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Modern TVs have a service mode, which you'll be able to access on your model after a bit of googling (hint: try Usenet, too) for instructions.

    On a JVC TV I had, I just had to simutaneously press two buttons ("Display" and "Video Status", IIRC) on the remote to produce a nice color menu of the plethora of configurable shit present in a recent TV. Geometry controls (is this what you're after when you speak of "overscan"?) are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Sony TVs require a certain sequence of button-presses to be completed in a certain amount of time, as another example. Their menu is usually not quite as pretty as JVCs.

    And I dare say that such features are nearly ubiquitous. The very cheap 19" Sanyo that I've got in the bedroom has a rather expansive array of configurable settings.

    The potentiometers may be gone, but the software is there. You just have to find it... (and get a new more-clued repair shop, while you're at it.)