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A Positive Outlook on the Software Industry

joechang writes "According to this article in Business 2.0, our IT sector jobs are not as glum as we make them out to be. Despite the downturn in the economy, the article maintains that our jobs are as stable as ever, and that pay increases are actually at reasonable levels. In addition, software development is still one of the largest growing industries, and that Billings, MT is a high growth area. Of course, I haven't heard of any of my co-workers taking a job in Billings..."

20 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. Bullshit by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Business magazines are written for people that buy into the business lifestyle and don't see it as a necessary evil. For those people, who latch onto the cocks of their managers in a lamprey-esque way, the future in business is always bright. For those of us with minds, the future usually sucks. Such is the way of america.

    1. Re:Bullshit by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In most corporations, "Good attitude" means taking whatever shit you're fed. Yes, people only get ahead in most corporations when they kiss ass. Sometimes they have to be good at their jobs, too, but sometimes kissing ass and not complaining about anything is all it takes.

      If you're good at your job and disagree, you will not get promoted over someone that's incompetent and an ass-kisser.

  2. No raises here... but by Montgomery+Burns+III · · Score: 4, Insightful
    With all due respect to the author, My company has both pay and hiring freezes.

    It seems that nearly all corporations are in a belt tightening mode, looking to save precious cash, etc.
    I believe that there will be an upswing, it just hasn't happened yet.
    --

    'ta
  3. As someone in the IT field, I am unconvinced by argmanah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm still hearing about layoffs, about the horrible time people are having in trying to locate a job. Friends and co-workers feel no sense of job security. Apparently, they need to put a caveat in their article: "Your mileage may vary."

    --
    Overrated Moderation: This posts sucks... because.
    1. Re:As someone in the IT field, I am unconvinced by warpSpeed · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm still hearing about layoffs, about the horrible time people are having in trying to locate a job.

      As a contractor I have never been so busy in my life... There is work out there, just not long term, stable, live on the teat of a big company kind of work...

  4. Here's why Billings is a growth area by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your manager is salivating already, just think how well a programmer could live on 70% of your salary. Billings vs San Jose.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  5. Good pay? by EvilStein · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or.. "There are jobs in Billings, MT.. if you're an H1B that's had a job description tailored to your specific resume?"

    Which is it? I wonder.

  6. Don't believe it by mysterious_mark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just had one of those meetings this morning, more pink slips due G W's oil war, I think we're in for another great depression, read the news it ain't rocket science. MM

  7. Wheat from chaff by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The .com boom got a lot of people into programming in IT because the "wisdom" of the time was telling them that's where the money was.

    I was in university during the rise of the .com boom, and watched my classes fill up with people who had never used a computer, had no passion or interest in them, barely passed their courses, but were just sweating it out for that big paycheck at the end of the tunnel.

    Myself, I've always been 'into' PCs, since I got a C64 as a wee kid. I have a passion for it, I enjoy it, I consider it my calling.. I couldnt imagine doing anything else.

    So when the bubble burst, I'd imagine the people who got into computers who didnt care about computers simply left. They went and started new careers doing whatever. Some are slow to learn, as we've had a steady stream of employees who have absolutely no interest in doing the job. But they're eventually learning that the free lunch is not to be had, and they're moving on.

    I'm still here. I get paid to do what I love (write code and troll on slashdot). I'm not worried about losing my current job, it's in an industry niche that wont go away. But if it came down to it, I'm confident I could find another.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  8. Business 2.0 is shit by NineNine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Business 2.0 is a half assed tech magazine that pretend to be some kind of business magazine. In reality, it was born in the dot com bullshit boom, and somehow they've managed to survive as others around them are crumpling. Their writing is bad, their stories are often paid for, and I expect that this story is simply optimistic, because without tech workers, their magazine is bust.

  9. Re:Brown Out at EDS by anonymousman77 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As an EX-EDSer myself, I CHEERED when I saw this news yesterday. This is the start of the end of the relentless pursuit of the cheapest labor possible (Read: INDIA).

    Dick Brown was a scourge of the IT industry. I hope his $55 million from last year and $38 million in severence serve him well while he's frying in hell for his deeds.

    I'm glad I was able to leave EDS on my own accord, and I don't care WHO they put in there, I'd never work there again.

    Visit this site:
    http://www.edslawsuits.com

    LOTS of hatred there.

  10. Workload is unique to IT by tacokill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just switched industries completely (doing Process Control Engineering now). While I will always have a fondness in my heart for IT/Computers, I will NEVER miss the long hours / piss-poor environment, non-appreciated by everyone-ness that permeates almost every IT shop I've ever been. I never realized how overworked and underappreciated I was until I got a "real" job in a non-IT function --- and realized that 60 hour weeks and staying up until 2am to meet deadlines are NOT THE NORM IN BUSINESS.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I put in long hours -- when I need to. But they warrant some kind of specific need. In IT, everything seems to be a specific need so people wind up working crazy hours "to get things done".

    It's absurd. You don't see that kind of craziness in any other functional area (marketing, HR, finance, etc). Only on rare occasions. However, within IT, I would be SHOCKED if I walked in at 7pm and half the staff was actually gone for the day. Unfortunately, we (IT folks) have come to accept that 60-80 hr weeks are the norm.

    You don't have to live that way. There is an alternative.

  11. IT is as bad as it seems. by luwain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been "in the business" for almost 30 years as a programmer, Analyst, engineer etc... and I have NEVER seen the IT sector so bad. Usually it would take me between 4 and 8 days to get a new contract. After my last contract ended at Lucent in April 2001, I ended up free-lancing for an entire year, finally finding a job with a military contractor in April of 2002. Many I know in the industry haven't been as lucky. Agents who were getting rich during the 90s, are calling ME asking for leads. In actuality, things are worse than the media is making it out to be. People are losing their houses. People are losing their minds. People are compromising to pay their bills. I know a highly skilled Software Analyst who made $200,000 during the glory years, take a job where he has to commute an hour for $50000 working as an in-house network admin... These are not isolated stories. When I was at Lucent in Holmdel, there were some 7500 people in the building. Last I heard, there were 800 left, and there were stories that Lucent was going to give the building up. (That huge building in Holmdel used to be symbolic of the glory of Bell Labs).
    It's bad. It's very bad.

  12. Re:Until China and India trains more programmers by njdj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Software development is like the Mc Donalds job, anyone can do it,

    Of course this is crap - only a small percentage of the population, maybe 2% or something like that, has the aptitude to develop complex software.

    But the world can use maybe 100,000 software developers ... and 20 million Chinese graduate high school every year ... plus 15 million Indians ... you don't need calculus to do the math here. The problem facing software developers is not that their job is easy, it's that their job is portable. You can email a spec to Shanghai in 10 seconds. And when the development and testing are done, you can email the source code back in 10 seconds. You don't even have to go thru customs. Shipping costs zilch.

  13. A few obvious points about this article... by crazyphilman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. It's been written FOR business management types (it's in "Business 2.0", a management rag) so you can't expect it to say "The IT industry is now dead, because management has decided that what jobs aren't going to be outsourced are going to be replaced by H1-Bs". No, that would sound like BLAME, and what suit would ever accept any of that? Suits want to hear how they haven't really hurt anyone, and how they're running their companies well -- not how they're running them into the ground, regardless of which perspective is more accurate.

    2. Remember that suits care about only one thing more than profits: P.R. and prestige. They're not going to pay for a magazine that makes their pet initiatives (outsourcing and layoffs, etc) look like bad ideas. They would be outraged if one of their favorite magazines took them to task for their decisions. So, this isn't going to happen.

    3. Because this magazine is written FOR suits, BY suits, you can't expect it to NOT have tons of pro-suit propaganda. What sort of propaganda would a suit write up? Basically, stories like this one, about how H1-Bs, layoffs, and outsourcing really haven't hurt anyone and how everything is really just peachy. Gotta keep that consumer confidence up, even if you're going to put them out of their homes in a month or so, take away their livelihoods and ruin their lives. They might buy stuff in the meantime!

    4. If the article was honest about how bad company policy has made things for people, it might -- gasp! -- influence politicians, who might -- double gasp! -- DO SOMETHING about the problem. Can't have that! So we've got to keep saying things are just fine.

    Overall, this article was a puff-piece love-letter to American business. And, coming from this magazine, how can you expect anything else?

    --
    Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
  14. Yes, you can mail a spec in 10 seconds. by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And then another then next day, and another after that... and then all of the emails later on after the software has shipped that meets the specs but solves none of the problems it was built for are all quite fast as well.

    What you can't easily do is understand what people really want as opposed what they say they want. That involves a lot of face time, and is the reason why corporate development is still the vodoo art that it is.

    Simply put, if a company cannot really put down what it wants on paper ahead of time, remote development efforts are doomed to varying shades of failure. Most cannot, so on the whole outsourcing only IT does not work - the only thing that would really work is to outsource whole companies.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  15. Stop the fear by hargettp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think collectively we are all afraid our jobs in IT (or in software, period) are becoming commodities: cheaply paid programmers outside the US are replacing us, open source software is drying up the revenue streams traditionally associated with software.

    But it's not all hopeless. There is a way out, a way to prevent becoming the victim of commoditization. There's one skill that almost by definition will never be a commodity, and strangely enough, I had a friend at Microsoft put the idea in my head. The only way to succeed in software (or services, that tag-along so often accompanying software revenue) is by focusing on innovation.

    It's that simple. Think about it for a minute: are you maintaining a bank withdrawal application for a large bank, or are you creating protein folding algorithms to run on a massive grid? Are you building the latest revision of the corporation's brochureware website, or are you designing a web-based logistics tracking system for a freight carrier? Are you working for large body-shop, or did you finally decide to start the consulting business you've always wanted? Pick the job opportunities by their potential for tapping into your capacity to innovate, and you'll never go out of style.

    Don't give up. Yes, the run of the mill jobs will inevitably go to the cheapest service provider. But innovation is limitless; that's one of the lessons of the '90s that unfortunately seems to have been lost when the money ran out. And it was the money that ran out--creativity doesn't go anywhere. Innovation: do you got it?

  16. Naive but cheerful article by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most of the consumption the author credits (home prices, car sales) have bee ndriven by debt-based consumption. Hardly a positive development. Driving this debt-based consumption is the key initiative of the stimulus package. Bush won't have to deal with the fallout even when he tries to get reelected - most of the debt being loaded up today through refis won't affect the economy drastically in the next two years.

  17. Re:Until China and India trains more programmers by crazyphilman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    HanzoSan said, incorrectly: "Software development is like the Mc Donalds job, anyone can do it, theres no shortage of programmers"

    To which I reply:

    Horseshit.

    There are two kinds of *professional* software development:

    The first kind is performed by well-trained college grads, who have studied computer science and know how to design and build a project that works. We're talking a B.A. or B.S. at least, maybe even an M.S.

    The second kind is done by people who decide that there is money in "computers" and think they can enter the profession by taking a six month course at some certificate mill, or reading a couple of books. If they have a degree at all, it might be in a liberal-arts field.

    The first group of people have studied data structures, file structures, computer architecture, mathematical logic... Their work will be efficient and well designed. They know software engineering, they understand OOP... And, they probably really love the field, or they wouldn't have spent all those years in school dedicating themselves to it.

    The second group of people ONLY know their chosen language's syntax, plus a little bit about some API they plan to work with. They're just cashing in; they don't care about programming particularly. Their designs are sloppy, and generally turn into maintenance nightmares. The sad thing is, they don't know any better, and can't understand what's wrong with their code.

    SO, NO, YOU'RE INCORRECT. PROGRAMMING IS NOTHING LIKE A MACDONALDS JOB.

    And, before everyone slams me for being an elitist, how many successful open source projects can you name which weren't created by someone with real training in computer science (not some six month seminar)? And, maybe you can tell me, would YOU buy a house designed and built by an architect who took a six-month course? Would you drive over a bridge built by an engineer who took a couple of two week seminars instead of going to college for six years? Of course not. But you'll swear high and low that "anyone" can build, say, your company's enterprise database.

    Fuck... What total and utter bullshit. This guy's a troll.

    --
    Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
  18. Re:show me by grammar+fascist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quoth you, basically:

    I can't believe you're telling me I live in a shack (caves and loincloths, etc.) in order to survive in my profession.

    I believe that's called a "Straw Man" argument.

    Generally, when people talk about "excessive consumerism," they're not talking aobut living normally, or even about having nice things. They're talking about people doing stupid things like getting into enormous debt to "keep up with the Joneses." My sister, for example, has a well-paying IT job. She could easily have money put away and not be in debt, except that she thinks she's got to have a Dodge Durango to fit in in the area she's living. (At least she's buying instead of leasing this time. Ack.)

    Everybody has the ability to not do that, and nearly everybody (those above the average salary, especially) has the ability to put some cash away for a rainy day.

    "Living in caves and wearing a loincloth." Sheesh.

    --
    I got my Linux laptop at System76.