Red Hat 9 To Be Released March 31

Garfunkel writes "Looks like Red Hat is breaking tradition and skipping 8.1 and 8.2 and jumping directly to 9.0 RHN subscribers get it a week ahead on March 31st. Available to the rest the world a week later (April 7)." The website refers to the upcoming release simply as "9" -- which doesn't rule out future point releases, but could it be?

Comments

Re:Kernel version

[silvaran]

Phoebe (8.0.94) has 2.4.20 (too many versions!!!)... it includes the O(1) scheduler and some latency patches... the desktop is really quite snappy (X 4.3 will be included, Phoebe is working off a pre-4.3 snapshot). I hope 9 includes Nautilus 2.2.2 because the GNOME team added some speed increases there too.

Anyways, the nVidia drivers (the kernel module component) needs some changes to be able to run on the beta (they're available, but not from nvidia directly), but I suspect nVidia will have this released shortly after RH9. Additionally, some third-party stuff will have to be relinked, because of thread local storage stuff and the new NTPL -- Redhat backported a lot of stuff from the 2.5 series. Hence the 9.0 release (IMHO) since an 8.1 release would seem to imply that it's relatively backwards-compatible. It seems there are too many low-level interface changes to justify a point release.

Some drivers are already ready for the 2.5 kernel (as ready as you can get for software-in-progress), so you just need to hack the version numbers a little bit to get it to compile properly -- for example, the PowerVR drivers. Specifically, the VM API has changed quite a bit, so when RH backported these changes, they got the new API as well.

The beta looks really nice though, especially with GNOME 2.2. And CD burning is integrated in Nautilus (drag-and-drop, then click the burn icon, and it writes it to disc). Very nice stuff is on its way...

beta tested

[boarder]

I've been using the beta version of this for a month now. Phoebe is the name of the beta if anyone is interested in seeing what might be changed as of the last update.

My impressions as a person who uses this as a desktop at home and is normally a Mandrake kind of user:

It is a very easy to use and install and stable distro. I don't like that they include almost no configuration tools. To make it a good desktop distro I had to download a lot of extra rpms because the cd's with the distro are packed with server/workstation rpms. Also, though not RedHat's fault, NVidia's glx driver doesn't work properly with the new kernel and some weird dis-optimizations to the code have to be done in order for it to work (as of mid Feb; haven't checked lately). This is an issue with all 2.5 and 2.4.20 and above kernels, IIRC.

It is very similar to 8.0 (but they might have changed some things in the last month). The biggest gripe I have is that they use GRUB as the bootloader, but have no configuration utility for it. I'm a LILO person, but I thought I'd install GRUB to see if it was better. The man pages weren't very helpful and RedHat includes nothing to help, either. I went back to LILO, but since RH has no priority for it, there was no graphical options for LILO, just text.

It works for what it is supposed to work for: servers and workstations. As a desktop user that wants to have a simple and easy distro, I switched to Mandrake 9.1 rc1.

Re:Breaking binary compatibility?

[aksansai]

You bring up an excellent point - and you're along the right track. If we examine the features of Red Hat Linux 8.0.9x (Phoebe beta), we notice that several things have been added to the OS that will set it apart from previous releases. You can find the changes (so far) to Red Hat Linux 9.0 in the release notes of Phoebe:

http://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/beta/phoebe/en/o s/ i386/RELEASE-NOTES

I think the two major updates that will definitely warrant a few "major" number upgrade will be the following:

1) glibc update from the 2.2 development branch to the 2.3 branch; the major feature would be the addition of the NPTL (Native POSIX Thread Library).

The release notes cite that legacy (LinuxThreads) applications will work with NPTL if and only if they conform to the POSIX standard.

2) The new and improved XFree86 4.3 (usability, eye-candy, performance, drivers, et al.).

3) Extended attributes (EA) and access control lists (ACL) finally come to Red Hat's distribution - giving per-file control par with NT and other OSes that have already had EA and ACL.

4) The inclusion of Gnome 2.2 fine tunes Gnome 2.0 to a better degree.

So far, the glibc update (which seems to branch off the glibc that is shipping with Red Hat Linux 9.0) that was given to Red Hat Linux 8.0 users seems to be wreaking havoc with regards to threads implementations; a few examples:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cg i? id=86498
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/sho w_bug.cgi? id=86465
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/sho w_bug.cgi? id=86449

It should be noted that Red Hat has been extraordinarly adept with the inclusion of compatibility packages to allow legacy applications to continue working with their newest offering.

Re:Odd...

[Teun]

Subject: Red Hat Linux 9 | Get the latest Linux early

Dear Dirk:

You may know that Red Hat Network is the best way to keep your
systems running the latest errata and always up to date. What you
might not know is that Red Hat Network passed the one million users
mark earlier this year. We've listened to valuable feedback and have
added two items of interest to keep those users happy - early release
of Red Hat Linux 9 ISOs and improved technical support.

Beginning March 31, 2003, paid subscribers to Red Hat Network will
have access to Red Hat Linux 9 ISOs - a full week before retail store
and Red Hat FTP availability. Also, Red Hat Network subscribers will
receive dedicated Red Hat Network Technical Support.

Learn more about the benefits of being a Red Hat Network Subscriber:
http://redhat.chtah.com/

To purchase a Red Hat Network subscription:
http://redhat.chtah.com/

Thanks again for using Red Hat Linux. We appreciate all feedback
from our users and hope you enjoy Red Hat Linux 9.

Sincerely,

Red Hat

--

The above email is intended for people who have opted-in to receiving
email from Red Hat. If you think that you have received this email in
error, please accept our apologies. Simply click on the link in the
section below and we'll make sure you do not receive this kind of
email from Red Hat again.
http://redhat.chtah.com

Re:Ximian, where for art thou?

[stefanlasiewski]

Ximian Desktop for single-users probably isn't a big money maker.

These days, Ximian seems to be focusing on three main products:

- The mono project, which isn't exclusivly Ximian but could give Ximian a big advantage c#/.NET arena, and incorporating Ximian Desktop

- Their RedCarpet Enterprise manager

- Evolution and other projects for some of the bigger *nix's like HP-UX and Solaris.

Those bigger contracts are probably the only thing keeping Ximian alive at the moment.

RedHat != Microsoft

[rainmanjag]

Please don't start comparing RedHat to Microsoft... There are some truths that can clear up a lot of these misconceptions...

1) RedHat releasing this as a major version number is consistent with their numbering schemes in the past and is likely not a marketing plot. RedHat does major number versioning when binary compatibility is broken between versions. The Native POSIX Thread Libraries used in the latest beta Phoebe broke binary compatibility with a lot of applications. Thus, a new major number is warranted.

2) RedHat has an interesting challenge in that it must balance the "release early, release often" philosophy to satisfy those of us who like having cutting edge distros with the need for corporations to have some longevity in their releases. RedHat has found a good balance here. These consumer releases are going to continue to be released every six months to satisfy those who want its raw power. They will continue to be free, and RHN update services will continue to be free (though recently they've asked for about ten seconds of your time to complete a five question marketing survey). These six-month releases will continue to have same QA process as always. RedHat is willing to continue to invest so much into these freely downloadable versions because the feedback they get from them helps them work on the slower release versions. Redhat has said this more than once during a recent thread on the phoebe list.

Please don't start villifying RedHat. They do a lot of good for the whole Linux community, pay many of the best developers of our favorite projects, and give Linux a wider acceptance in the RealWorld (tm) which helps all of us.

-jag

Official explanation

[Wesley Felter]

From Matt Wilson on phoebe-list:

But there's something a bit more fundamental that I want people to be
aware of. In the past we would never have tackled something as
massive and invasive as a new threads implementation just after a ".0"
release (in this case, 8.0). We were able to do this, and bring this
great new technology to a mass audience, because we've changed the way
we consider technology to incorporate in Red Hat Linux. In the past
we would have felt it necessary to wait a while for a ".0" release
because we had to support a series of releases for years.

With the introduction of the full family of Red Hat Enterprise Linux
product we now have the flexibility to incorporate the best technology
that both the Open Source communities and Red Hat have to offer when
they're ready, instead of having to hold back.

Re:Yippie.

[Alan Cox]

Thats what the LSB is for really. If its an LSB compliant distribution the LSB compliant apps should work, whether its numbered 8, 9 or 5001.

Its also why United Linux and Red Hat both have business oriented distributions which change much more slowly.

Alan

Re:This leaves RHCE's in the brown smelly stuff

[Alan Cox]

The RHCE scheme will be adjusted to reflect the numbering change. If you want more details contact rhcecert@redhat.com.

This should probably have been announced at the same time but wasn't.

Re:Odd...

[vorwerk]

You may know about it, but if not, you should try out "apt" for RPM (http://apt.freshrpms.net). It's all of the convenience of Debian with the packages and desktop (which I like :) from RedHat.

Upgarding to the next RedHat release then becomes as easy as:

apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade

done ;)

(I updated today, and already began noticing that it was pulling in some new glibc updates and so on.)

Re:Odd...

[ComputerSlicer23]

Sure, my guess is that the Enterprise line (AS, ES, WS) are seen as the supportable versions that they sell to major customers so they can get a stable platform for several years.

The regular ISO's they will see as something nice to do for the community, and have it be the test bed for new features, and the "beta/gamma" release of the upcoming Enterprise series. Then the new enterprise releases will have lots of software that has been tested and released on all kinds of hardware and they will have a very good chance of making a very, very stable release for the enterprise lineup.

Because they have the stable release, I believe you'll see fewer, and fewer X.1 and X.2 releases, and you'll see a lot more .0 releases. Somewhat because it will be enticement to have people buy the Enterprise line, and somewhat to keep the "beta/gamma" testing on the bleeding edge. It's a pretty clever scheme all in all. If they can pull it off, and keep the bugs in the .0 releases down, and put out a .1 to solve big problems in .0, I'll happily use the standard ISO on my desk, and happily pay the money for the Enterprise lineup for my servers.

Kirby