Office Depot: Windows XP Apps Must Be Microsoft-Approved

An anonymous reader writes "According to an article at The Inquirer, by May 30th Office Depot will only be carrying computer products that have been certified by Microsoft and carry the 'Designed for Windows XP' logo. This may be an initial glimpse at how Microsoft could introduce Digital Restrictions Management by ensuring all retail hardware and software products are approved by Redmond."

Comments

more from microsoft

[egoff]

Here's more from Microsoft. Here are the requirements to be certified.

Looks like it's for hardware ONLY

[yerricde]

Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements

The specific use of the word "connect" smells strongly like the new policy applies only to hardware products, so that customers aren't scared when they bring home their products and get the "unsigned driver" alert. (Under Windows 2000 and Windows XP, installing an unsigned driver produces such an alert. Installing an unsigned user-mode application program does not produce such an alert.)

Re:I'm sure everyone's knees will jerk.

[Angry White Guy]

Office Depot's listed entertainment titles, mostly the big sellers and a bunch of time wasters. So now, just the big sellers.

1,000 Best Solitaire Games
300 Best Arcade Games
Age of Empires 2: The Age of Kings
Diablo II
Diablo II Expansion Set: Lord of Destruction
Disney's Lilo & Stitch
Empire Earth
Greeting Card Magic
Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone
Hoyle Slots & Video Poker
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault(TM)
Microsoft® Flight Simulator 2002 Professional Edition
Microsoft® Zoo Tycoon
Print Perfect Gold
RollerCoaster Tycoon
SpongeBob SquarePants: Operation Krabby Patty
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
The Sims: Hot Date Expansion Pack
The Sims: House Party Expansion Pack
The Sims: Vacation Expansion Pack
Warcraft III

OfficeDepot UK, not US, decision

[isdnip]

Note that the initial article came from a British paper, indeed a very good one which I, like many on the left side of the puddle, read regularly. The article refers to Office Depot's UK stores, which have adopted the policy. It also suggests that US stores haven't yet done so, though they might at some point in the future.

I don't know how autonomous the different Office Depot divisions are, but many companies give a lot of autonomy to national divisions.

I sit two doors away from a Staples so I don't really go into an Office Depot much anyway....

Re:I'm sure everyone's knees will jerk.

[arkanes]

The logo is a scam - many of the apps that carry it, and even MS apps, don't follow the guidelines. There's lots of crap, and some of it is very dodgy - for example, you aren't permitted to have a link to your uninstaller in your start menu folder. There's a bunch of things you can and cannot do in the start menu, actually, along with more intelligent things like accessability support (very subjective, and many apps with the logo don't conform) and using system colors/fonts.

Please, RTFA, and then THINK about it, too

[Rary]

Okay people, first, take a valium. Next, recognize a couple of important points here:

• This is an Office Depot decision, not a Microsoft decision.
• It does not necessarily mean they won't carry non-Windows software (ie. Red Hat Linux), just that all Windows software will have to be XP-certified.
• Consider the source of this information. It's not exactly a shining example of quality journalism. Reading the "memo" in the article, there are a couple things that pop out that make it sound a bit like a fake, written to get all the ABMers riled up (and if so, it clearly worked).

Re:Nobody else is going to do this

[n1ywb]

BTW it seems like a lot of people haven't noticed that this isn't just SOFTWARE they're talking about, it's HARDWARE too. From the article (which I guess nobody read)

As you know, applications and devices that meet or exceed Microsoft's technical requirements will be awarded the Designed for Windows XP logo ... Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements to be considered for retail distribution through our stores.

Has already happened, long ago

[doublem]

This has been going on isnce the pre win 3.1 days

Windows crashing with a mysterious error message when run under Dr. Dos instead of MS DOC. MS eventually lost the lawsuit in that one. Turned out they had designed Windows to detect the DOS vendor and crash if a non MS Dos was found.

I work at the Depot

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually posting this message from a Computer located inside of an Office Depot location. I have been working at the depot for 4 years now, and I personally consider this to be a good thing, although I do have some reservations.

Consider the current retail culture in this world, sales are down, margins are slim and overall, profits are down. Office Depot is in a position where something has to be done to distinguish themselves from our competitors. Staples, Office Max and Grand & Toy (in canada) as well as whatever other retailers in the states are out there, make for a very competitive selling atmosphere, and with margins being as slim as they are, you cannot compete on price, what you have left is customer service, selection, and reliability. Most of the items that are going to be affected by this are the cheap little invoicing programs that no one buys anyway, that all get returned to the vendor after a year of not being on the shelf. Also consider that your typical customer at the depot, is not as computer savvy as you, or I am. Our typical customer is the home user, who is upgrading their early pentium box, and places constant phone calls to the store, whenever "This Driver is not digitally signed" comes up, or even today, the lady that called to ask how to find the CD Key for her Black ICE Defender. These are the type of people who NEED everything to work as smoothly out of the box as possible, with few or no questions.

Just because all of the itmes that we will now carry must be supported my XP, does not mean that those items will not work in alternate OS's...it just means that if an item is not 100% XP compliant, we won't carry it. If anything, this is just going to be an incentive for companies like HP, Canon, Lexmark, Epson etc to get off of their asses and fix all of the broken drivers that we see daily.

Disclaimer. I'm personally an avid OSS user, including Debian and FreeBSD. My home network has been windows free for 3 years now, and I could not be happier. However, I realize that 99% of the people that I see on a daily basis at my store, are using XP, or are upgrading to XP in the near future. From the standpoint of my employer, this makes sense, and I agree with them.

Re:I work at the Depot

[ralphclark]

I think you are being a little naive. This is most likely what Microsoft is planning:

1) "Designed for XP" certification begins to appear on some products.
2) Clueless buyers (most of them) show sufficient preference for products with the sticker that it hurts sales of any competing products that aren't certified.
3) Certification becomes necessary for anyone who has a software or hardware product they want to sell to the mass market.
4) Microsoft now has control.
5) Certification criteria are updated to force certifiable products to be non-interoperable with other OS such as Linux, probably justified by some DRM control freakery relating to Palladium.
6) Vendors comply in order to retain certification.
7) Only non-certified products are now suitable for use with minority OS eg Linux. The market for these is too small for most vendors to bother with.
8) Drastically reduced range of products now available to minority OS users.
9) Due to lack of support by vendors, minority OS is now doomed to return to being a vanishingly small fraction of the market.
10) Microsoft celebrates.

Windows Logo Requirements

[vasqzr]

Per Microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/winlogo/default.mspx

Bias? Certainly not...

[LordSah]

Here's a summary of the logo requirements, from Microsoft's Logo site:

List of Windows Fundamentals Requirements
1.1 Perform primary functionality and maintain stability
1.2 Any kernel-mode drivers that the application installs must pass verification testing on Windows XP
1.3 Any device or filter drivers included with the application must pass Windows HCT testing
1.4 Perform Windows version checking correctly
1.5 Support Fast User Switching and Remote Desktop
1.6 Support new visual styles
1.7 Support switching between tasks

Installation Requirements List
2.1 Do not attempt to replace files that are protected by Windows File Protection
2.2 Migrate from earlier versions of Windows
2.3 Do not overwrite non-proprietary files with older versions
2.4 Do not require a reboot inappropriately
2.5 Install to Program Files by default
2.6 Install any shared files that are not side-by-side to the correct locations
2.7 Support Add or Remove Programs properly
2.8 Support "All Users" installs
2.9 Support Autorun for CDs and DVDs

Data and Settings Requirements List
3.1 Default to the correct location for storing user-created data
3.2 Classify and store application data correctly
3.3 Deal gracefully with access-denied scenarios
3.4 Support running as a Limited User

This may be an initial glimpse at how Microsoft could introduce Digital Restrictions Management by ensuring all retail hardware and software products are approved by Redmond.

Logo requirements exist to ensure a quality user experience. NOT to force DRM onto the world through Office Depot. This is biased speculation on the part of the submitter, and timothy, objective as always, posted it on the front page.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

From an employee

[MaestroRC]

I've worked at Office Depot for about the last year and a half, in the Technology department. We sell a little of everything, including games and other software, and it is mostly (95%) oriented towards Windows. The only real Linux software that we carry in-store is RHx, and I'm quite sure we will continue to carry it. And for the mac stuff, well, as said previously, we only carry TurboTax and Quicken, and again, that will probably stay.

What this policy is affecting most is going to be the bargain software as well as the cheapo hardware. From the perspective I see from working there, it is most definately a wise move, since most of the time when a piece of software or hardware does not carry the logo, it is much more difficult to install/use, and is prone to return (Example: Lexmark... who here HASN'T had problems installing their shitty inkjets?). It is unreal how many people buy something, can't get it to work without tweaking something that they dont know how to change, and take it back, even if there is a big "DO NOT RETURN TO STORE" sticker on it. Most of these products get return to "DND", which is either returned to the vendor for repair or destroyed; but either way it costs the store money. I think the biggest company this will hurt is Lexmark, unless they can get their certification soon. The bargain software, in my opinion, is good riddance.

This is how to restrict linux - slotting fees

[Anonymous Coward]

This is how ms will restrict linux, and a method that anyone unfamiliar with dealing with retail outlets will have no knowledge or ability to stop.

It's called a "slotting fee". Except, in reverse.

What's a slotting fee?

A slotting fee is the fee that supermarket chains charge to manufacturers for shelf space in their stores. The supermarkets started this, and perfected it, but it extends to all retails outlets.

Want to sell your product? It costs $1,000 per foot per shelf per store. In cash. Up front. No guarantees. Not selling? You are kicked out the next week. That's how it goes on at most supermarkets, and that's how it would go on at most electronics outlets as well.

The slotting fee is in addition to the marketing money, flyer money, sale money, advertising money that the manufacturers offer, or the chains demand.

How does ms keep out linux? Very simple. ms already pays a hefty sum to retailers for advertising in the flyers, for sales, and for shelf/floor space. All they have to do is mention that it would be unfortunate if they started to see Lindows on the floor or shelves after they provided so much money for promoting their own brand. After all, we (ms) are in a lawsuit with them, there is no reason to promote them, is there? How much are they paying you? Really? And how much are we paying you? When my boss finds out you are stocking Lindows, he's not going to be too happy. He was just going over sales figures for the area. Your chain's figures are unchanged from last quarter, yet Will's chain is up 5% from last quarter, and up 10% from the same quarter last year. So is Frank's chain. So are all the other chains we've reviewed so far. This is really worrisome. Our division's been cut back next quarter on marketing money. You really have to give me a good reason to keep sending you these $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 checks, especially after you are stocking a company that we are having a major problem with. They are even trying to steal our name. Haven't you heard?

I'll have to talk to my manager. I may not be able to save the marketing money for you next quarter. My manager has insisted that we concentrate on companies that are protecting our interests, and can show solid sales numbers. If he walks in here and sees Lindows, I'll lose my job. I'll see what I can do, but it doesn't look good. Maybe you can help me out. You know what you need to do. After all, what sales are you really seeing with Lindows? Our marketing payments exceed the gross sales of Lindows, and you are giving them valuable shelf space!?! Maybe you haven't had time to go over the figures. That must be your mistake. Here, let me show you your chain's sales for the past few quarters, and how much money you've been paid for marketing, flyers, slotting, co-branding, television ads, newspaper ads, and more. Now how much did you say your Lindows sales were?...

It's highly unlikely that a chain buyer would even get as far as the last paragraph above. I've sat through similar conversations with chains, and it rarely gets that far. As soon as a retail outlet is threatened with loosing valuable funds, the outlet capitulates faster than Saddam. Every time.

This is how ms will step on linux, and the linux sellers won't know what hit them, and by the time they figure it out, it will be too late, and they won't have the funds to play.

btw, the attorney general of New York, and other states have come out and said that slotting fees are legal. Seagram's started this, and the New York Times or Wall Street Journal had a large article on this in the mid to late 80's, when this first started popping up, when Seagram's originally, allegedly started this, and if I remember correctly, they were mentioned in the article.

One name like C...

Re:I'm sure everyone's knees will jerk.

[chrisseaton]

"Now, put all that in a 20kB program with a 5kB installer"

I think that can be achieved with a grand total of 2 API calls - open the registry key and write it. As far as space, I would guess 500 bytes for string values and perhaps as much as 100 bytes for the code to call it and other integer parameters.

It's not complicated, mate, and it is probably "ANNOYING" for users when you don't implement this standard interface.

It only applies to hardware

[cyril3]

If you read the article it talks about items that connect to pc's and laptops as requiring certification. I assumed that meant hardware as I can't see how you can describe applications software as something that conects to a machine.

It says nothing about application software.

Can we stop the "Will they sell Linux" stuff now.

I assume they got sick of people bringing back everything that threw up the "This is not signed" box.

Logo Certification != DRM

[sfe_software]

Where the hell does DRM come into this? The official criteria for Windows Logo Certification has nothing to do with DRM. It involes:

- Obtaining a certificate from Verisign ($400)
- Adhering to certain Windows Standards (noting that MS Office 2000 and Media Player would not pass)

That's it. There are no DRM requirements, just making sure your software a) works with the latest Windows version and follows certain standards (not very strict), and b) is code-signed to ensure it is published exactly the way you released it (signed by you, with your own key).