CDMA vs. GSM in Post-war Iraq

An anonymous reader submits: "Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA) is pressing congress to favor CDMA over GSM for mobile phone service in U.S.-funded reconstruction plans. One reason for pushing this is that a CDMA system would benefit American companies, such as California-based Qualcomm, while GSM would favor European companies. Currently, GSM is the most widely used mobile standard in surrounding countries."

Comments

Talk about counting chickens

[Tax Boy]

Before they're hatched. Can I be on the occupied Iraq new currency designing committee? More importantly, will occupied Iraq choose Direct TV or Dish Network as its standard?

I can tell this esteemed Rep. has his priorities straight.

Re:Talk about counting chickens

[be-fan]

If I here this "right/wrong" bullshit anymore I'm going to scream. I can understand people who say this war is necessary: but right?

1) The US is amoral (note to the clueless: this is different from 'immoral') . So is pretty much every other country out there. Our actions are decided not by "right" and "wrong" but by our interests. In the '70s, the US fought a war against a country when their people chose a government the US did not agree with. Throughout the late 20th century, the US propped up oppressive dictatorships because it benifeted them. US sanctions on Iraq have not only resulted in the death of tens of thousands of Iraqis (not counting the 75,000 that died as a result of the Gulf War) but made Saddam into a hero in many Arab circles. Were any of these actions "right?" Hell no. Were they good for the US? Certainly.

2) Money is not a big issue for the US. We have tons of it, and if we need more, we can always make the deficit a little larger. What he don't have is a stable energy supply, something which Iraq does. And anyone who says oil isn't the issue here is flat out misinformed. Even several ministers within Great Britain agree that a stable energy supply is the #1 reason for a way. Look at it this way: Iraq is a country with only about 25 million people. The US plans to spend over a hundred billion dollars on it. In comparison, the total population of the developing countries is in the billions. To relieve the entire developing world of their foreign debt would cost only $65 billion (much less if you don't count Indonesia). Developing countries suffer heavily under the interest payments due to foreign debt. In some countries, up to 25% of the budget could be freed up with debt relief. Now, what makes more sense: taking a country of 25 million people, that already has well-established infrastructure, blowing everything up, and rebuilding it at a cost of over a hundred billion dollars, or allowing a much larger number of countries to get their budget on track by relieving their debt? If "right" and "wrong" were our only concerns, we would certainly be doing the latter.

3) The whole "democracy for everyone!" idea is bunk. What makes you think that a system of government that works well for a rich, industrialized nation will work equally well for a decentralized nomad country (Afghanistan) and a very conservative religious society (Iran). Take Iran as a test case. The current government was put into place by a revolution of the people. That's the government they chose. If given the option, right now, they'd choose it again. Is it "right" to remake their country in our own image?

All this has no bearing on whether the war is necessary. I have my own opinions about that, but I won't try to convince you of them. But the truth of the matter is that the US is going to war to protect its own interests. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, one can make a strong arguement that the purpose of a government (much like a lawyer) is not to necessarly do what's morally right, but what's in the best interest of its people. It also doesn't mean that democracy is wrong. I'm very fond of the idea myself. I strongly believe that the ultimate direction of all governments should be towards democracy, and the international community should pressure all governments in that direction. But I also realize that history works at a scale much larger than the 4-year term of a President, and further, I believe that prostelyzing our system of government is against our fundemental values.

A parting thought: In the 10 minutes it took me to write this post, 240 children died of hunger. What did you do about it? What did I do about it? Everytime anyone starts to get to full of themselves, or too proud of their accomplishments, think about that. Realize that while our country may very well be the greatest in the world, that's not saying much, and it's nothing to be proud of. Humility is a part of every religion. There is a fundemental reason for this...

Re:Talk about counting chickens

[superyooser]

You start off by saying "If I here this "right/wrong" bullshit anymore I'm going to scream."

That statement itself implies that it's wrong (ahem) to say that something is right or wrong. Then you proceed with a long-winded rant on what's right and wrong. I think this is what they call in psychology "cognitive dissonance."

hah!

[lingqi]

I really hope this lays to rest any argument about the US going there to "save the civilians from Saddam's evil."

Come on people, war hasn't even finished, and all they can think about is US cellphone company's benefits? what about FOOD, WATER, MEDICINE?

sheesh...

This is a joke right?

[mosch]

Seriously, this has to be a joke right? People aren't actually getting pissed about which cell phone technology may be used after we're done conquering Iraq are they?

Seriously folks, in percentage of population, the US Military has already killed more Iraqi civilians than 9/11 killed Americans. Let's not worry about what cell phones the Iraqis will use after we win, and worry instead about whether or not it's possible for us to win.

Peace. As salaam alaikum.

Re:This is a joke right?

[mosch]

The Iraq Body Count counts high and low numbers of confirmed civilian deaths, the idea being that the truth is probably somewhere in between those sets of numbers. Right now the civilian body count is between 232 and 302 in a country of 24 million, whereas the 9/11 body count is approximately 2800, in a country of 280 million.

I'm not talking about the people who starved during sanctions, as I'm aware that Saddam didn't spend all his oil for food money, and he stole as much of it as he could. I'm referring only to people who were killed by the current invasion.

Next time you're watching the bombs explode on CNN, remember how you felt on 9/11, and realize that the same thing is happening in Iraq, right now.

CDMA Bias by Issa

[davidu]

Is it a coincidence that Darrell Issa is the rep from the 49th district in California which is home to CDMA developer Qualcomm?

I THINK NOT.

This is just another example of politics being influenced by corporate desires and lobbying.

-davidu

Greedy Fingers

[cdjfelton]

I would feel much better if the US made the commitment to not have any economic interest in Iraq. There should be no US based company getting contracts for oil. Same goes for cell phone standards. KEEP YOUR GREEDY LITTLE HANDS OFF OF IRAQ! We are going to war with Iraq for the freedom of the people, not the plunder. Right?

Re:In other news

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

What about interest in Halliburton owned by family members, golfing buddies and other fellow back-scratchers?

What neither quote makes clear is that Cheney didn't think that maintaining stock options was a conflict of interest - he said words to this effect in public. It was only after a relatively large hoohaw in the press that he finally acquiesced. It is doubtful that he has changed his mind, divestiture was purely a face-saving political move. Given that, you can be pretty sure he (or rather his accountants) will have worked every angle and loophole to indirectly keep him "on the payroll" with Haliburton and who knows how many other companies.

For another example of this kind of mindset, look at Richard Perle who, after a couple of weeks of denial-tactics finally became too much of a liability, just like the stock options, to keep around. This guy, former Bush Sr top-dog and until today a Bush Jr top-dog too, was given $700K to convince the DoD that it would be ok for Global Crossing to self off to the Chinese. Why? Because his official top-dog title was "Chairman of the Defense Policy Board," an advisory panel to the Pentagon - making close to, if not the civilian with the most influence over the DoD. Not to mention the even larger issue of his ties to arab-owned corporations. Conflict of interest? Not in any dictionary of his.

This crony capitalism mindset is endemic in the current administration and as far as I am concerned is 100x more of a moral defect than boffing an intern or two, or even ten. Because instead of just screwing a few people, it screws most of the country for the benefit of just a few people. These guys (and democrats too, but they at least know enough to be embarrassed about it) have taken the term, "spoils system" to a whole new level.

Re:My thoughts

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Just forget for a moment that cell phones are probably the last thing on the Iraqi peoples minds for the next little while.

Quite the contrary. Mobile phones will be critically important for everyone from Red Cross workers to those distributing food aid to Doctors Without Borders to the firefighters who are already trying to cap the burning oil wells. Without this piece of infrastructure in place, the relief and reconstruction effort will be severely hampered.

Re:My thoughts

[plalonde2]

And only 8 billion of that 75 is tagged for reconstruction. Of the 8, 6 billion is already tagged for US companies. As I count it the US is spending 67 BILLION dollars beating someone up and then handing him 2 billion for compensation.

Bush needs a war to be re-elected.

An Insult to The Fighting, The Dead and Dying

[tres]

God, what a perfect representation of what is important to the bush administration. I thought Slashdot may actually avoid this type of propaganda called "reporting."

Women and children are being killed. Our friends, neighbors, brothers and sisters are killing them/being killed, and what is the US media reporting? What do we hear about?

Who makes the bucks from war.

Never mind that has already taken a heavy toll on any US legitimacy (the founding principles of the nation itself are threatened to be as illegitimate as its current "president"). Never mind that it's at a cost of billions in tax dollars (that our children, and their children will be paying for). Never mind that it will cost thousands of lives before it is finished (and possibly hundreds of thousands of lives as the ranks of Al Qaeda grow). Never mind that it's barely even begun!

Have you no decency? If you want to report on Iraq, report on something legitimate. Report on what's happening rather than the propaganda puff-pieces.

Report on the 28 year old plumber who drowned after being ordered to cross a canal in full battle dress. Or the 20 year old lifeguard who drowned trying to save him.

Report on the seven year old girl lying in a pool of her own blood, her intestines laying beside her.

Report on the fact that the people of Iraq don't want to be "liberated." And that our friends and families will be the ones to pay the highest price of all because of the dreadful mismanagement and miscalculation of the bush administration.

Fuck rebuilding. Fuck Saddam. There's an unjust war being wrought upon the innocent civilians of Iraq, as well as the innocent soldiers of the United States. This is not their war, this is the war of a few greedy people who don't even legitimately hold the positions they currently abuse.

The bush administration has shown time and again that it has no care for legitimacy, or truth. From the moment the first Florida recount started, they have shown that they care only for protecting their own interests. They have never had the interests of the US in mind. They have never cared about those men and women who are suffering and dying right now.

With a smug smile they say, "We will liberate you from your God, your money, and your dignity."

Re:My thoughts

[Blkdeath]

The U.S. is going to spend upwards of $75 Billion dollars on the war alone, with who knows how many more Billions rebuilding Iraq, and when all is said and done we probably won't even get a thank you card. Even if half of the aid was in loans it would still be a good deal. This is especially true considering that the loans are likely to be given at ridiculously low rates. Loans at below market rates is still basically free money.

Yeah, when somebody kicks my ass, I'm ever so greatful when they throw me a fiver afterwards. And hey, if I only have to pay back six bucks by Friday, all the better! I actually feel GOOD about being bruised and battered!

Considering the vested interests of America's Big Oil El Presidente going after a country with such large oil reserves, once again 'accidentally' lobbing some of the most high-tech, modern, "smart" guided weaponry into markets et al. and terrorizing the very citizenry he claims to be helping, I don't think you should be patting yourselves on the back for your proposed rebuilding efforts.

Re:My thoughts

[atlantis_tin]

You said it so yourself, "autonomy is the keystone of responsible self-government." If I am paying for the system with my money, then I want a say in how that money is spent. If the Iraquis have a problem with that, then they can build their own cell phone infrastructure.

That would be fair if you did not break their existing phone system. What you are actually doing is - breaking their phone system and now you think you will be doing them a favor by fixing it.

I would not be surprised if it was me and you, but it's sad that people in high positions - CEOs and Ministers - should be so selfish and narrow minded.

Right now ...

[effad]

... people are dying in Iraq. Soldiers and Civilians. The latter die of hunger, precision bombs lack of water, stray bullets and other such things.

So here comes a US senator whose only concern is what mobile phone system one should install when it's all over. Quite frankly, this is so cynical. Not only against the iraq people but also against US soldiers. As a soldier, I'd really like to get the message: 'Go soldier, risk your life, so we can open up some market for mobile phones.'

If some European politician made any such proposal or in fact any attempt to "secure a market" at this point in time he'd be thrown out of office.

That is what makes people turn away from the US. The lack of tactfullness. Double standards (Yes, we respect the Geneva Convention - whenever it is useful to us). Turning one or two blind eyes (Who gave Saddam weapons of mass destruction when he was the bulwark against Iran?). The will to break international law whenever it serves the purpose.

The rest of the world may be afraid of the US. But there is no respect.

"Terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich. I can't see any difference between them."
Sir Peter Ustinov, UNICEF

Re:GSM vs CDMA on technical issues

[horza]

GSM? WHICH GSM? Africa, US or European frequency? GSM not as universal as most think.

It's very universal. Changing frequency doesn't mean having to change chipset design, infrastructure, etc.

CDMA is head and shoulders above - look at where the highspeed wireless is going - CDMA, not GSM.

They have different roots. GSM was specifically designed for voice data.

Plus CDMA is more efficient in its bandwidth usage than GSM. Remember GSM is still TDMA at its roots. So CDMA has better spectral efficiency.

TDMA vs CDMA was examined in depth in deciding the GSM standard. The committee decided that the TDMA system was superior (easier to build more accurate and reliable base stations was one of the factors IIRC).

Plus you should take into account the terrain and desnity - Iraq probably is not all that population dense outside of Baghdad and Basra. CDMA really comes into its element when you are out in the countryside with few sites covering large expanses of land. Under these conditions CDMA provides extremely stable audio with few frame errors to mess things up. This is because Channel Pollution is almost non-existent in these situations. Under similar conditions TDMA suffers too readily from interference and it will often blank the audio. Many people who use CDMA systems in sparsely populated areas have given this technology extremely high marks.

GSM is a compromise, which allows it to work well under both conditions. It had to satisfy all the members of ETSI, including Switzerland (sparse, all mountains) and Holland (totally flat, with large cities).

So despite the obvious political motivations behind this decision, technologically speaking, it s actually a good decision to favor CDMA.

It's not, because you restrict the technology (handsets, base stations, etc) to a couple of US companies. With GSM you can invite tenders from every company in the world, with an already mature market providing a lot of CHOICE for both handsets and infrastructure.

Phillip.

"most widely used"

[Jens]

"CDMA system would benefit American companies, such as California-based Qualcomm, while GSM would favor European companies. Currently, GSM is the most widely used mobile standard in surrounding countries."

Don't you love half-truths when you see 'em? GSM is not only the most widely used standard "in surrounding countries", it's the most widely used standard, period.

GSM: 330 million world wide users
CDMA: 67 million world wide users

But, it seems more important to purchase national patriotic technology than good technology. (That must be why Americans still use Windows. After all, Linux originates in Europe and must so be inferior, by definition. ;)
Let's buy steel from US companies, even if it's more expensive because they neglected to modernize their factories (in Europe, just about everything was rebuilt after WW2 - and the debts for foreign help, also from the US, have long since been paid. It was a very painful process, but it paid off). And because foreign steel is now cheaper and better, phone George to introduce some nice import taxes.

Forget that the white "paint" which is used for most national buildings (eg. white house) is made in Germany. Forget that most of the cars that run the US are produced in Germany or by German companies. (BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, anyone?). Forget that under the hood of most cars made in the US you see European labels like Bosch, Siemens, Philips, etc.

While you're at it, ban not only french fries, french toast, and french kissing, but also french red wine (which might be considered a merciful fate for the wine, considering that Americans mix it with Coke!). And all that just for the fact that - understandably - most of Europe has a problem with war, for any reason whatsoever. It's even in the German constitution: Germany is not allowed to participate in non-defensive warfare. The constitution which was written by the US after WW2.

I'm waiting for the USA to ban Hamburgers, which originate from Hamburg (the 'ham' story is a myth!), Franfurters, Schnitzel, Mortadella, etc.

I remember a quote from a demonstrant in the US: "If we had invested the money now spent in war in proper education soon enough, the war wouldn't even have started."

Right.

GSM is not French

[lga]

GSM may be an an abbreviation for French words, but GSM is a global standard originally designed by a group of European companies and organisations. Loads of countries were involved, not just France.

This argument that French products shouldn't be used is racist. I know Americans like their country, but this is racism and xenephobia on a huge scale. Shame on you all.

Finally, who gave the USA permission to build this stuff? Privatising the services in Iraq doesn't benefit them, and definately isn't democracy - it's THEFT. The services and infrastructure belongs to Iraq and after they have a democratic elected government the choice of how to run public services belongs to them.

Please note that I am not against Americans in any way, but your government really pisses me off.

Re:Yay

[cm4rx]

and apparently you havent noticed the american government doesnt give a shit about iraqi people, their just in for the money.

because if they did give a shit, they would realize that GSM is better for them, because every other nation around them uses it!!!.

but no, they'll force them (because thats what the US government is used to do) to use CDMA in the interest of a couple of greedy corporations.

and btw, who the fuck is the US congress to decide which mobile phone service protocols is the iraqi people going to use ???

operation iraqi freedom indeed...