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Eclipse 2.1 Released
insomnia writes "Eclipse 2.1 has been unleashed to the world today. Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE environnement and I highly recommend it; developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now. You can see what's new in this release here."
But seriously, it looks good, and their replacement for Java's bloated and slow Swing GUI toolkit should be adopted by Sun yesterday.
As it stands, Eclipse has more features than Idea, plus a whole bunch of plugins. Eclipse has tools for working on big, complex projects. Idea shines as a more basic editor, where it leaves everything else behind. It's just much more nicely done, with a much cleaner interface. I especially like how it automatically adds import statements, AFAIK the only IDE that does that.
The best way to find out which is better for you is to download both and try them.
its not a question of whether people would like to write enterprise applications in java. most of the consulation industry atleast is already doing that.
I am sure language per se can not be such a deciding factor when designing enterprise applications and the fact that it runs on VM or the fact that users of app would have to purchase Big IRON machines to run it. No, there are never the deciding factors!
Java is certainly not suitable for certain kind of applications but so is any other language. and this false 'macho' sense that i am doing it on metal in 'C/C++' is well false, thats all. [ there would be thousands of instances of brain-damaged C++ code written by brain-damaged programmers!]
Its not that just writing it in C/C++ makes you a more capable programmer! Java is much more cleaner. Things that suck most are primarily in libraries.
And, anyway, extending the logic, why not write everything in assembly ? or make your own ADDER from NAND gates ? or do you know how the electrons tunnel through to make a transistor work ?
No
I have gone backwards in terms of developing software when it comes to using an IDE. Although I don't develop using Java I do work with C++ on a variety of platforms with several IDEs and text editor. When I began I used bloodshed's dev-cpp then moving onto M$'s VC++ as my projects required a better compiler and ide to handle all the files. Now, have gone back to using text editors, notepad and emacs, because I am using the compiler tools, flex and bison, in some of my work. In some ways a basic text editor is easier to work with, of course the nice color coding makes reading your code easier but really your code, when properly formatted(indenting and so forth), should be easy to read in a text editor. In addition, MDI text editors make it a breeze to program because you can have many windows open at once and still have your screen organized. Next to my text editor I have my console in which I type make and my app gets compiled as easy as 1,2,3. GCC is great to work with because it works exactly the same on windows as it does on linux. In addition, if you work on both linux and windows making the transition is easier when you don't have to deal with the clutter of all the features of an IDE no matter how well laid out they are. One of the things that attracts most people to IDEs is that a lot of them come with code wizards and so forth that help with the basic layout of applications. I have never found these to be of much use because I end up scrapping much of the code because it usually isn't as concise as I like it. So for now I will stick with my text editors.
Checking out my form of escapism.
I tried Eclipse a month ago, and was severly disappointed. First off, I had to read the tutorial to figure out how to build HelloWorld with their system. Not intuitive. Also, the SWT library is a complete joke -- it doesn't look like the host OS, and requires native code. No java program using SWT is cross-platform, so what's the point?
Are we using two different Eclipses? From unzipping the binary distribution to setting a couple preferences to a System.out.println("Hello world"): 2 min.
Also, how can SWT not look like the native OS when it's a JNI wrapper around native widgets? Furthermore, to write SWT apps no native code has to be written by the developer, you simply need to include the SWT native library in your java.library.path. SWT is cross platform! The widget classes are nicely abstracted so that each implementation of the JNI library for each platform requires no code changes on your part. Please learn more [SWT FAQ] before dismissing it wholesale based on incomplete information!
I know that that is a common possibility in all Open Source projects, but Eclipse makes it really practical, using their plug-in system. I mean that you don't have to learn the whole damn bloat of code to start adding some menu point to it. I'm developing a plug-in, and while not trivial, it's affordable.I've been developing for more years than I care. And never sensed the same kind of power as now, when I can modify my IDE to suit my preferences. Efficiency is starting to climb, even considering the time developing the plug-in. And it'b bound to skyrocket as it gets perferctioned. I mean, most of my development has a high percentage of repetitive work, that is probably different for other developers. I'm now putting all that repetitive work in automated code generation routines. It will save me ages. And Eclipse offers a lot of built-in functionality that allows you to concentrate on the real issues.
Plus, the documentation is good. I would almost call it first-class.
I've been waiting for something like Eclipse since I did my first C code to generate COBOL list programs. So it's a while. Well, I must leave you, gentelmen, I think my download of the 2.1 is finished
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
" Is java really worth developing for? I think it is great for its ease of programming and library support, but it's requirement of running on virtual machines leads to huge memory requirements for the simplest programs, and GC while nice, can lead to slow apps."
A quick check of pricewatch shows that a 512MB stick of DDR2700 is $49. So for less than $100, you can have a gig. Ram isn't an issue any more. 2GHz+ CPUs are floating in the low hundred dollar range, so CPU power won't be an issue by the time any program started now is released.
A quick look at what java is used for shows it isn't made for prepackaged, store bought programs like Photoshop (Sklyarov), Warcraft (BNetD) or Word (to many to mention, the messages probably cap at a gig in length). These are the domain for C. Java is used for business logic, multi-tiered client/server programming, and interfaces for knowledge workers. That is where it rules. It has connectivity, net-awareness, security and a general lack of bugged code built into it's genes in a way that other languages simply never will.
When you write in java, most of the crap simply isn't there. You can write components easily, and deploy them across a corporation with a large, hetrogenous computing infrastructure with little if any porting. This is what gives CIOs wet dreams, and saves cubic dollars for companies. Add that to the fact that you can run it on damn near everything from a cell phone to a sun 15K, and you have a good deal of flexibility.
You are looking at this from a perspective of someone writing an app for a user to run on a PC. This is a very valid programming model, but not the one that java is aimed at. While it will work, you are missing out on what makes java shine.
-Charlie
Then you don't understand the power of flexible deliverables. The .class file strategy along with the .jar concept basically blows lisp and smalltalk out of the water when it comes to product delivery time.
:)
Admittedly, there may be a way to rethink lisp and smalltalk such that compiled code can be easily separated and independently manipulated, but enterprise Java applications are just so much easier to manage largely because of the strategy chosen for breaking up deliverable units.
As for syntax, I tend agree with you, both lisp and smalltalk have more powerful language metaphors than Java (and other C derivatives). Though, that can be a two-edged sword (have you ever tried to read newbie lisp?
Regards,
Ross