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Build Your Own PCB Milling Machine

mwandel writes "It used to be that one off amateur printed circuit boards were all etched in acid. A lot of companies nowadays use a special form of milling machine to mill them out of solid copper clad circuit boards. This guy Jonathan Westhues built his own PCB milling machine out of various parts, with a laminate trimmer as the milling head. Lots of other neat hacks on his Webpage as well."

15 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. milling machines are cool by zymano · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If you type in "home built milling" at google you'll get an interesting type of mill called a CNC mill that is made out of regular Dremel rotary drills and computers. Very cool.

    More people need to be able to make their own parts out of steel and plastic. The problem is cost. It's curious that a country that is inventive as ours doesn't have some type of affordable CNC(computer numeric computation) milling machine.

    Affordable metal cutting lathes are expensive too.

    1. Re:milling machines are cool by UniverseIsADoughnut · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ""The problem is cost. It's curious that a country that is inventive as ours doesn't have some type of affordable CNC(computer numeric computation) milling machine.""

      You underestimate what it take to make a good mill. A none computer controlled Bridgeport Vertical Mill will set you back 16 grand depending on how you option it. There are not a highvolume thing. It takes massive peices of perfectly machined metal to do this. Theres a lot to it. You can't just cheapen one up without it becomeing well cheap.

      Adding Computer Numeric Control is not so easy. Though i'm sure if someone wanted to do it it would not be impossible. But there is a heck of a lot to G code (what runs CNC's). You'll be working the bugs out for a while. And then you still need a CAD program to pop out G code, thats a few grand there at the cheapest level. Granted if you want to spend a lot of time you can code it by hand. Many machinist do much of the G code by hand, but they do that everyday.

      There are reasons CNC's aren't cheap, Mainly the fact everything about them is expensive. If you ever get to see a real high end CNC mill or lathe going you will understand why the cost $100K to a million bucks. Watching one at work will blow your mind. Especialy if you stick your head in it.

    2. Re:milling machines are cool by MBCook · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Good try, but not quite. If all you want to do is mill simple things and etch circuit boards with it, it's not that hard. There are a few little bits, but you can build a good one for under $100 (plus steppers, etc). It would cost less if you already have some of the stuff around.

      As for CNC not being easy, it's not easy, but it's not impossible. Especially if all you're doing is PCBs. How expensive is the software? Dirt cheap. You can use the free version of TurboCAD to make your parts. You export them as DXF files. Then the program that controlls your motors can convert that to gcode for you (or you can use another piece of software). You can get free DXF->GCODE converters that work quite well. You can also get free software to run your motors, or nice commercial programs for $20.

      It's true that a "real" CNC machines start in the 10s of Ks, but you can make one that will do just about everything a hobbiest will ever need for just a little. For more information see my other posts to this discussion, or see John's website.

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    3. Re:milling machines are cool by Jason1729 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What would be perfect is if there were places where you could rent time on a CNC mill, sort of like kinko's for engineers.

      I make about 20 PCBs a year (with FeCl3 etching). It would be nice to just go into the store CD and blank copper clad board in hand and rent the machine for an hour for $50-$100 and make 5 boards.

      Since the boards are generally all different or at most 2 copies of a single one, I can't justify spending $80 for each board at a place like PCB express. This is just a hobby after all :).

      Jason
      ProfQuotes

    4. Re:milling machines are cool by Silicon_Knight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, it really depends on what sort of precision you need. You're really comparing a cadallac to a geo metro here! :-).

      For those wondering, a milling machine is like a drill press, only the part can be positioned accurately relative to the spinning metal cutter, and the cutter and head is designed to take side loads as well as axle load encountered in drilling. In all machine shops, calibration marks are in increments of 0.001", or 0.01mm. A human hair is usually 0.003", and most skilled operators can hold 0.001" precision quite nicely. This gives you an idea of what sort of cutting operations we can do.

      The cool thing about CNC is that under computer control, 3, 4 or even 5 axis can rotate simultaneously. It is like drawing vector graphics, and vector shapes, except in 3D. Newer CNC mills can actually be programmed using NURBS. They really are amazing robots to watch, they can rapidly accelerate to over 200 inch per minute tranverse speed, and come to a stop within 0.0005" of their target.

      A bridgeport machine is about the best manual milling machine you can buy. Everything, as the previous poster pointed out, is a piece of art - down to the table (the surface the work is held on), which is hand-engraved by some old 80 year old guy with a chisel, then finished to within 0.0002" flatness. That's right, every point on a 12 x 60" table is within 0.0002" in vertical height.

      On the other hand, home brew variety uses regular screws for motion control, cut corners everywhere, etc. You really get what you pay for.
      My team used extensively Sherline milling machines, and recently acquired a TAIG. Both are very nice, hobby priced CNC mills, both can be had for under $1000.00. They have all the features of the big industrial machines, and we've made parts from aluminum, delrin, steel, and even titanium on them. As long as you're not in a hurry to get parts done, they work quite well.

      Here's a few links to get newbies started:

      Vendor neutral information links:
      http://www.mini-lathe.com
      http://groups.y ahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
      http://groups.yah oo.com/group/sherline/
      http://groups.yahoo.com/gr oup/taigtools/

      Hobbiest turned vendors site with great info:
      http://www.seanet.com/~dmauch/
      http://www. cartertools.com/

      Commercial products:
      http://www.sherline.com
      http://www.tai gtools.com

      BTW - if you're looking at getting one of these machines for PCB milling - my advice is to invest in a black light and a UV etch resist kit. Even with our most well maintained machine, and a 10,000 rpm spindle upgrade, production of anything that allows surface mount components is still a bit of a nightmare. The fibreglass (FR4) dust is very very abrasive and will do BAD THINGS to your lungs. Also, keep in mind that most of these hobby machines cannot match a commercial unit for spindle speed - and a higher spindle speed is required for small diameter cutting bits to adequately cut detailed features. (Commercial engravers run at 300,000 rpm - yup, 0.3 million revs per minute, on air bearings). Food for thought.

      BTW, I am the shopmaster (read, machine sys-admin ;-) ) for a high school robotics team [www.swatrobotics.org] . We have 6 weeks to build a robot, and I am in charge of production to make sure the crew get their training, their tools, and their machine time to get things made. Pretty cool project :-).

      -=- Terence

  2. Acid etching is nearly extinct by green+pizza · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Good article for those that don't already have access to PCB milling equipment. There really is no reason to do the old-school etching method anymore, in fact, I don't even know any hobbyists that do that anymore. Milling equipment can be found, borrowed, or made pretty easily these days. I've even seen a working setup made from Lego Mindstorms and a cordless Dremel! Hey, it works and beats the heck outta the mask-and-acid roll of the dice method.

  3. Recursive construction by FTL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The best thing about this milling machine is that it built itself. The first version was controled by electronics on a breadboard. The second version uses much more sophisticated electronics on a PCB that had been milled by the first version of the machine. That is unbelievably elegant.

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  4. UV Light does the trick by __aafkqj3628 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Over here, (in school at least) we just print out the circuit diagram onto a transparency sheet (inkjet printer of course) and then just use a UV light to destroy the appropriate parts of the circuit.

    Use some chemicals (stored in a safe location and brewable in your own home) and you've got a nice PCB for you to use.

  5. Re:Electronics Enthusiasts... by Thatmushroom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As one of the members of the younger crowd of which you speak, I'd like to express my own (personal) opinion.

    I'm certainly curious, and the multiple articles about home-made tools for dabbling with electronics certainly contribute to my curiosity. The problem, however, is two-fold. One, some of this is rather daunting for most beginners. I see some of the talk about people on here building their own circuitboards and such, and I'm a little intimidated, frankly. Two, I wouldn't know why to dabble in electronics, and the lack of an interesting and simple project just means that I won't get the basics that would let me move on to more advanced projects.

    www.nutsandvolts.com certainly looks like an interesting resource, but I'm not sure it's as good for complete newbies such as myself. I'm going to sign up for a sample issue to better evaluate it, but I'm still afraid I'll miss a lot of critical background information.

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  6. Re:Amateur by uglomera · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Milling machines are not an overkill or a solution for amateurs, they are a very good solution for inexpensive prototypes or production needed in small-mid volume.

    Acid etching produces a functional board, but it simply does not look good, and you can't make 100 boards that are exactly alike. The lines are almost straight, the edges are not perfect, and if you are on a contract to deliver a product, this is not an option. Examples of where a milling machine is one of the best solutions: a university lab where the researchers are under government/industry contract and are supposed to deliver a working prototype or a small business with a military contract (small volume products).

    I worked for a startup company for a while, and part of my job was to work on a QuickCircuit milling machine, and that thing had milling bits that were 4 mils thick (comparable to hair). You can hardly reach this precision with acid etching. I also adapted the machine to dice wafers, which replaced the company's practice of using an exactoknife :)

    If you are in the IC design business, testing cheaply is of primary importance. You can get a full setup for producing boards for less than $10K. How's that compared to billions of $$$ for setting up an IC production plant? And if you are in the RF design business, you need the precision so that a crappy board does not screw up your high-frequency measurements.

    Of course, milling is no option for producing high-volume PCBs with many layers, but don't think that ASUS spent months to design such a board to test their new motherboard design. First they have to verify that design works, which is done with a cheap PCB design, one that would hook up the ICs. Only after that stage can the final PCB design begin.

    As long as the Z80 or 68K processors are still in use, simple PCBs will be here, and we need a cheap and fast way to design and make them.

  7. Scanner guts...r by cr0sh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Scanners are essentially a flatbed plotter with only one axis of travel - cheap USB scanners can be had for under $30.00, buy a couple to get a two axis system, third axis could be a simple solinoid config. There would still be a lot of work left to do to get it all to go together, but it could be done (whether you stuck with the USB stuff, or just kept the stepper motor and drivers, then added you own custom interface). Also, back in the early 1980's there was a BYTE magazine article on building your own plotter (not that difficult)...

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  8. Re:It's a plotter by modecx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On the contrary, large flatbed plotters are pretty popular for sign cutting, routing, etc. I used to work at a large custom print company, and we had a couple WILD plotters hooked up to a Xenix server.

    At the time I left, they had 2 Zund tables, complete with conveyors, automatic sheet feeders, roll feeders, with a nifty camera hooked up to the cutting head that would track 1/4" dots on the media and compensate for stretching/shrinking that is common with the 3M vinyl that we used.

    A while back I was looking through the Zund catalog, and they have all sorts of heads for their plotters, such as routers with z axis, laser, etc.

    When we bought the Zunds, we sold the WILD tables to someone else (though I'm not sure why anyone would bother, they were known for their controller board problems.) I doubt that any functioning table would be trashed so readily.

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  9. And for the real, hardened professional. by Jennifer+E.+Elaan · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually, you missed the secret of the really high-volume people. Photoresist is actually primarily for rapid prototyping, not production. Due to the harsh nature of etchants, there are very few compounds that are both photosensitive and resistant to them. Most of them are quite dangerous.

    The most serious problem comes in from the really high-end etching systems. Photoresist is fine with ferric chloride, but when you start using something like an acid-peroxide etchant, it will actually eat many "resist" inks. The resist pens become TOTALLY useless, for example.

    And so this is where the old technique of serigraphy comes in. This is the "screen-printing" that makes the name Printed Circuit Boards. The resist ink used on the actual board is usually just some form of lacquer, which holds up well to even the harshest etchants. A stencil is prepared on a screen, usually through a photographic process. Since the screen resist doesn't have to deal with the same harsh chemicals, it is generally much more environmentally conscious and cheaper than PC-Board photoresist.

    I actually set up to do this method myself, in a semi-hobby context. I had some previous experience with serigraphy, and the acid/peroxide system was cheaper, far more effective, and much easier to dispose of than the ferric chloride. On the flip-side, it will eat virtually anything metallic and smells aweful (it isn't much of a health hazard except in the sulphuric/peroxide system, but should be ventilated nonetheless), so it's not for the faint of heart.

  10. Re:Useless by theLOUDroom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But I used one of such machines. Nowadays they are absolutely, unconditionally useless.

    Not true. I have also used such machines. They are actually very useful. Yeah you can't make a new motherboard for your PC with them, but for making quick prototypes they are great. You get your board the same day, and if you made any mistakes, you can fix them the same day and make another board, you don't have to spend time waiting for someone else to do things, the mail, etc.

    As far as SMT goes, they can handle everything but the smallest of SMT parts. I built a prototype that had one such part, and afterwards I had to sit there under a stereomicroscope with an exacto knife cutting the traces in a half dozen places, but it really wasn't that bad. No one said my prototype had to use parts in packages that small anyways.

    They are also killer for making quick interface boards, extender boards, etc. No you can't make anything you want with them, but just because they didn't work for your application doesn't mean they're useless. You're not getting four-layer boards with silkscreening for $30 anyways. If you want a board with a few connectors and minimal circuitry on it, you can have the finished thing in your hand by the end of the day and go back to doing your tests.

    Since I've been able to get some use from one, they are clearly not "absolutely, unconditionally useless." Hell, there are still companies out there that use through-hole parts and phenolic PCBs in their final products. You don't need that dense of a circuit board when all you're doing is controlling a toaster.

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  11. Re:It's a shameless plug, but.... by anubi · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Brian:

    I could not agree more with what you said.

    I would bet you in five years time, that DOS system will *still* be chugging along just fine.

    I work with systems like this all the time in the robotics world. You do not have to be a gigahertz machine to spin steppers! There is *nothing* to be gained once you can process faster than the physics of mass and energy will allow.

    Now, *most* (not all) of my clients are in business to make money. They want to set up a machine to crank out something, and do it for years. I often work with multi-millionaires who have quite "obsolete" machines toiling 24 hours a day making product. The machines, long since paid for, are working far better than the day they came out of the box, as by now, we have found the bugs and have the system tuned to repeatedly make perfect product.

    I mentioned not all of my clients thought this way - there are some who just have to have the absolute cutting-edge stuff. Yes, they are the same guys who spend money they don't have, drive really fancy cars, live in fancy homes, and we spend our days raising money and debugging, then after a while, we have to explain why the money is gone and there is no product. Its not a skill I care to develop.

    With one paradigm, continuous reliable production supports an almost perpetual research effort into making more product lines and the company tends to grow exponentially. With the other paradigm, our length of employment tends to approximate the total amount of funding received divided by the "burn rate".

    Maybe this is flamebait - but I have been involved in both. And I have developed an intense distaste for the latter. There is something in me that writhes in acid when I have to face investors with nothing to show. I know the business books are full of advice on using "other people's money", but I would rather lose my own than take down all those other people with me.

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