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Investigating the RIAA's Billion-Dollar Claims

zrosener writes "I've put together a site with a lot of information on the cases. I created diagrams and explanations of the file sharing systems these students created that the RIAA is suing them for - and how they are functionally and technically very similar to Microsoft's tools built right into windows, and how they are dissimilar from Napster's." Good detective work.

18 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Tuition's bad enough! by E.+T.+Alveron · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The recording industry is losing (has lost) its main distribution channel to a much more efficient one.

    Tuition's high enough these days--there's no need for RIAA to go after these kids' with lasers strapped to their lawyers' heads... I wouldn't mind paying for SACD-quality recordings, if only I could buy them easily and efficiently (read: online, one click at a time).

    1. Re:Tuition's bad enough! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Read also, dirt cheap. What does what you talked about have to do with tuition price.

      You cheap bastard

      If they offered exactly what you ask for for $1.50/track (still much better than having to buy a $15 CD with 10 sounds just to get the 3 you want), you'd still pirate them and say they're only worth $1. Then if it's $1, you'd say it's only worth 50 cents.

    2. Re:Tuition's bad enough! by Sad+Loser · · Score: 4, Insightful


      The other thing is that now media is so cheap, it may just force people to swap CDs and DVDs with their ripped music.

      While this has always happened, it has not been the mode of choice. At least with the p2p networks, they could monitor them and do something about the worst excesses. Maybe they could even have worked out a way of taxing the university for the amount of fileswapping. This would have made the university admins keep things under control.

      By forcing this activity further underground, they will have even less idea how much is going on

      --
      Humorous signatures are over-rated.
    3. Re:Tuition's bad enough! by Moofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, if you do something that a corporation has purchased a law to deem illegal, you (the "offender") lose all rights to, say, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment?

      How is a $1bn dollar punitive fine anything other than cruel and unusual?

      Oh, wait. The RIAA is doing this to several people, making it cruel and usual, which is much better.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  2. Good Detective work?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful
    Great...some schlub with too much time on his hands produces a "study", and all of a sudden you can assume its a good job? How many nutjobs' studies will you link to to show how evil/greedy/stupid the RIAA is?

    Great bias there. But then again, this is slashdot.

  3. Re:And it's already slashdotted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Google seem to get away with it with their cache system ;)

  4. might be useful for the defence by a7244270 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, I haven't been able to read your site, as the server of course has been slashdotted, but I gather you have collated a list of similarities between the software in questions, and (legal) software which has already been out for a while.

    Given that you made the effort to prepare this work, I suggest that you take it the final step and send it to the lawyers in charge of defending the students against this lawsuit by the RIAA, or if they have none yet, try to get it to their hands.

    Oh, one more thing. You might want to send it anonymously; you never know, you might be sued next. (I'm only half-joking).

  5. Been tried before to no effect by infonography · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pete Wilson, Ex-Gov California claimed a billions for all the Illegal Aliens syphoning off California's wealth before his cronies could get to it. It was tossed, this will be too. However it does tend to make people think twice, while they will win, the RIAA will make them drain their bank accounts for legal fees. Defense funds will form and they too will suffer. The idea is to make everyone in favor of trading suffer somehow. Even if they lose this time the next time there will be fewer willing to donate. The Artists need to understand the the Record companies are not their friends. The make more without the even if they don't have a gold record

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:And it's already slashdotted... by tshak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Furthermore, it's not that hard to setup IIS to limit bandwidth or concurrent users so that you don't take the server down. In Apache just install Apache::Throttle and configure as well. Either way, the worst case scenario is that during a spike some users receive a "Try again later", while other users who have already established a connection can keep using the site at a reasonable speed.

    Even if you don't have access to your web server, configuring a web application server (such as Tomcat, Cold Fusion, or ASP.NET) to limit connections before it goes into a "low bandwidth" or "static" mode (kind of like CNN did during 9/11). I know a lot of these sites are personal sites, but most seem to be PHP or Perl sites which assumes that a coder of some sorts is involved.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
  8. Yeah Look at the article by MushMouth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are a lot of problems with Albini's article. One is that he lists a fairly good selling band as example, a poor selling band (and there are much much more of them than ones that are in Albini's words "hits") would end up costing their company money (only 10,000 copies sold, still quite a few, and the company is in the hole $700,000), even though the band ends up with their advance and publishing money (they do get publishing money, in Albini's case the song writers get $.07 per song per album sold minus ascap fees, if we assume 10 songs then the writers are getting $150,000). So really the bottom line assuming entire band write all the songs should read $400,000/(number of members in the band). Another thing that Albini's rant quite starkly portrays is that touring looses money, in this case $875.00. Thats right you go on the road (and work very hard) you end up with less money at the end. Thus the idea that the recordings should be free and people should only be paid to perform simply doesn't fly. What Albini was trying to say here is that Big Record Companies (eg Warner, Sony) are a rip off, and Small Artist Run Places (in this case specifically Touch And Go, I think he was pissed about the Butthole Surfers going to Warner) will make the artist more money. Ask Albini what he thinks of Shawn Fanning or the like getting rich on the backs of Slint, Low, Big Black, The Pixies, or even Bush and he will tell you another story.

    1. Re:Yeah Look at the article by Monkelectric · · Score: 3, Insightful
      a poor selling band would end up costing their company money

      BULLSHIT. You can't justify stealing with that argument. What they're saying is, "Most of our investments fail." Would you be satisfied with that performance rate as a business? If you accept that premise, why should a successfull artist have to support 99 crappy artists?

      The answer is of course they're lying. They own the studios that record the albums, they own the song writers who write the songs, they own the plants that press the cds. It's called vertical integration. They produce the album as cheap as possible, CLAIM it costs a fortune, and pocket the rest :)

      Do you really think the owners of record labels sit around and say "You know the thing that sucks about this business, we're always loosing cash." If that were the case record companies would go out of business all the time when their income sources (artists) dried up.

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

  9. Re:A question of intent by ivan256 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    With Windows File Sharing, you are unintentionally sharing your files with the whole world.

    That's bullshit. Nothing is shared by default when you install windows. You have to share it intentionally. The windows search function can search exactly the way these spiders do. All these kids did is cache the index of file shares on the local network to make the searches faster.

  10. Re:A question of intent by gigaloCA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unfortunately, intent cannot be understood just by the actions of people in this matter. Granted many people who put files in globally accessable folders don't mean to, but there are a significant number of "non-stupid" people who do this deliberately. Also, one cannot automatically assume that just because said student wrote a file sharing or searching program that it was written with nefarious intent.

    As has been stated numerous times in various places, in many cases, it is not the tool that infracts on the law, it is the use to which people put it.

  11. Re:Rational damage calculation by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Civil litigation is not based on real monitary value. What is the value of a "wrongful death" suit?

    Basically, the rule of thumb is to sue for about 1/2 of what you can get. And that value is then doubled to be what you can get so the lawyers get their 1/2.

  12. George Harrison got burned by yerricde · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they do get publishing money, in Albini's case the song writers get $.07 per song per album sold minus ascap fees, if we assume 10 songs then the writers are getting $150,000

    And they may not even get that. To the best of my knowledte, before a songwriter publishes a song, there is no reliable way to check whether or not that song infringes the copyright in another musical work. George Harrison got burned by this.

    How do you solve the problem of accidental infringement?

    Ask Albini what he thinks of Shawn Fanning or the like getting rich on the backs of Slint, Low, Big Black, The Pixies, or even Bush and he will tell you another story.

    President Bush hasn't really done much about copyright. Or is there another Bush that I don't know about?

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  13. Wow. It's the RIAA vs. Progress by cgreuter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What I noticed about the software/services described here is that 1) they could be extremely useful to large organizations (e.g. General Motors) for locating existing resources within the company WAN and 2) they are all to some extent research projects.

    I think this is a pretty clear-cut case of the RIAA attempting to hinder technological progress in defence of its business model.

    They're not going to win, though. This software is useful for all sorts of things, not just music piracy. It infringes as much as Google does.

    This suit is bullying, plain and simple. I just hope the defendants have good lawyers.

    And I hope the RIAA gets busted for barratry over this.

  14. Re:Good detective work? by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's some interesting stuff. They need to add a link to it on dontbuycds.org, and all the other anti RIAA sites, too.

    --
    How ya like dat?