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Firebird Name Debate Enters a New Stage
An anonymous reader writes "As many readers will know, mozilla.org was asked to change the name for their standalone browser, Phoenix as another browser had the same name. After months of discussion, the new name was announced as Mozilla Firebird. Despite the new name being approved by AOL Legal, supporters of the FirebirdSQL database were quick to object (though the name is also used by many other people). A coincidentally named supporter of FirebirdSQL, IBPhoenix, put up a slightly immature request for their readers to participate in mass posting campaign targetting mozilla.org developers' email accounts, newsgroups and even forums at independent sites such as MozillaZine and Slashdot. FirebirdSQL's official site later reiterated this message. However, IBPhoenix have now declared this shock-and-awe stage of their campaign over, heralding it a success. Their second stage calls for a more focussed email protest at just two of mozilla.org's members: Mitchell Baker (mozilla.org's leader) and Asa Dotzler (announcer of the name change). In addition, they ask their readers to move away from 'derogatory messages' and to show more 'courtesy'. Unsurprisingly, the beleaguered admins of affected sites such as MozillaZine have welcomed this change of direction. This is getting very interesting!"
If it were my choice, the childish email campaign would just make me more determined to keep the firebird name. Sending offensive messages to people who have nothing to do with the name change is no way to get things done. Maybe AOL can send it's lawyers after IBPhoenix for DoSing them. They can easily show damages in lost developer time deleting the messages and extra load on their mail server.
Jason
ProfQuotes
The use of the name in this case is non-confusing and the SQL people with their database have no basis for interfering with the Mozilla people and their specialty browser. The only reason Phoenix had trouble was that the BIOS maker also had actual browser functionality being marketed under the Phoenix name. This sameness does not apply in the case of FireBird. To conclude, someone should bitch-slap these children for running a spam campaign to annoy one group of open-source programmers to change their non-similar project's name. What would be appropriate at this stage is if the SQL folks would give up their name as contrition for their inappropriate steps.
"Despite the new name being approved by AOL Legal, supporters of the FirebirdSQL database were quick to object (though the name is also used by many other people). A coincidentally named supporter of FirebirdSQL, IBPhoenix, put up a slightly immature request for their readers to participate in mass posting campaign targetting mozilla.org developers' email accounts, newsgroups and even forums at independent sites such as MozillaZine and Slashdot. FirebirdSQL's official site later reiterated this message. However, IBPhoenix have now declared this shock-and-awe stage of their campaign over, heralding it a success. "
Sounds similiar to tactics we hear around here, when it's a company or person we don't agree with. How many times have we heard "everyone E-mail them" or we're going to "/." their site?
Sounds like bad karma coming home to roost.
First, minor correction they are chainging it FROM Phoenix (to Firebird) not TO Phoenix.
Now, the real thing is that people need to stop getting to damn defensive over names. The browser Phoenix had a legitimate beef, I mean you have two browsers of the same name. That is really confusing. However the SQL Firebird people need to sit down and shut up.
Firebird is NOT an orignal name by any strech of the imagination. I can easily name one Firebird that predates both of them: the Pontiac Firebird (a car). When you pick a popular name, you need to be prepared for other people to use it as well. Also, if you aren't the first to use it, you certianly have no right ot bitch when someone else picks it up as well.
Like I said, the Phoenix browser had a legit complaint. Here you had two of the same kind of product named the same thing. I can gaurentee GMC would raise hell if Chrysler introduced the Dodge Firebird car. However they won't mind about either the database or browser, as they are clearly different products.
Hell, the same is true of Phoenix. In additon to being a mythical bird, it is also the name of the captial city of the state Arizona. I bet if you talk to most people and ask what they associate Phoenix with, it will be the mythical bird or the city, not the browser. It is not an orignal name and the city of Phoenix will not be screaming at the browser to change its name as most people can tell the difference.
Unless you have a truly orignal name you really can't whine about people in unrelated fields using it too. After all, you borrowed it from somewhere else. Even if you do think up an orignal name (which Firebird is not) you still can't really complain if someone with an unrelated product uses it. After all, what is the harm? No one will confuse the two since they are different.
However, so long as there are other, older Firebirds than the database, these people are just being whiny with no good reason.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
This kind of petty (it's just a name), inmature (flooding people's e-mail), public arguing is one of the reasons Linux isn't getting the acceptance it should.
Why do people feel the need to drag Linux into every OSS related spectacle?
This issue has absolutely nothing to do with Linux. Stop trying to drag every OSS project under one big Linux umbrella.
(P.S. For everyone reading please don't reply regarding the acceptance of Linux and Mod this obvoius troll down.)
From what little I know about the FirebirdSQL database, I have tremendous respect for their technical accomplishments, and the work they did to get their project off the ground.
I do not have any respect at all left for their methods in dealing with conflict. There are a lot of people trying to guess what mozilla.org did or did not do in the search for a new name for Phoenix, and how mozilla.org will or will not use the name "Firebird". These are speculations that don't need to happen, since simply asking politely would have had the questions answered. Instead, the FirebirdSQL crew assumed malice and and "dirty deeds" and went straight from "hey, they're using the name Firebird as well" to "they're evil and we must mailbomb them into the ground, so that they see that we deserve the name more".
I'm not involved in the day-to-day operation of Mozilla anymore, and I've been under email siege for days now. When this whole thing started, I was sympathetic to their emotional reaction, and interested in finding ways to mitigate the (incredibly small) chance of user confusion. Now, I don't want to have anything to do with the Firebird people at all, I no longer care much for their feelings, and I'm very unlikely to expend more effort in trying to reach some sort of outcome that makes them happy. Maybe that was their intent, but maybe I'm starting to understand why their dealings with Borland were so troublesome.
(That they've had historic problems with names and legal issues and whatever other hell they, like any other large project, have endured might explain some of their IMO immature, self-damaging, offensive behaviour, but it sure doesn't excuse it.)
Actually, the very first thing I did when I heard about the conflict was head to Google, where I found that searching for firebird turned up a pile of projects and products, firebird software was just as crowded, and firebird internet completed the trifecta of shared-namespace results. So my take was, and largely still is, that there's a community of projects using the name "Firebird", including many in the software and internet spaces, and that we would be N + 1 to their happy N. Nobody has yet made a convincing argument to me that it can't be the case, nor that FirebirdSQL's million-plus users and developers will disappear because FirebirdSQL is no longer the largest project using the name-part. And believe me, I've heard a lot of argument on this topic.
If a name change is made -- which I find to be unlikely, and which makes the "only a name change will satisfy us" position of the FirebirdSQL people somewhat unfortunate -- I hope it's to "butt-head database".
I am not speaking for mozilla.org here, in case that wasn't clear. I just think that the FirebirdSQL people could have done themselves a lot of good by approaching mozilla.org politely and explaining their concerns, before bitching to the press and inciting mail and forum-bombings, replete with ad hominem nonsense. At the least, they've lost themselves whatever meagre contribution I could have made to a peaceful resolution.
Mike