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More On Detecting NAT Gateways

Posted by timothy on from the check-your-terms-of-service dept.

tcom91 writes "The Slashdot article Remotely Counting Machines Behind A NAT Box described a technique for counting NAT hosts. A recently published paper Detecting NAT Devices using sFlow describes an efficient way of detecting NAT gateways using sFlow, a traffic monitoring technology built into many switches and routers. This technology could be used to enforce single host access policies and eliminate unauthorized wireless access points."

8 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. Internet providers. by jfisherwa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is going to be used by your ISP to assure you aren't sharing your connection among multiple computers without paying a monthly surcharge for each.

    On the bright side, as with nearly all technology that tries to instate a form of checks and balances upon a system, we will soon see ways to fool this check and go back to business (balance) as usual.

    Jason

    1. Re:Internet providers. by phillymjs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...we will soon see ways to fool this check and go back to business (balance) as usual.

      Yep, and then the parties interested in counting NATed machines will go buy a law criminalizing circumvention of their "AUP Enforcement Technology."

      After all, only terrorists don't want anyone to know how many machines they've got connected to their cable/DSL modem, right?

      ~Philly

  2. Ummm no ... by bizitch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How does it cost the ISP more if multiple people share a broadband line? Where is the additional expense to the ISP that needs to be covered?

    Go ahead let them screw their customer base over - sure that'll work! - Good plan!

    And another thing ... do you know how stupid it is to directly connect your box to that cable/dsl modem thing with out at least hiding behind some kind of NAT?

    Go ahead and try it - be sure to run BlackICE or something so you can count how many times you get portscanned in an hour ..

    --
    ---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
    1. Re:Ummm no ... by nolife · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit..

      Bandwidth (about $50-130/mb wholesale)

      Number of computers in a home environment does not automatically mean more BW. It may come in spurts but not more overall. I go online and do certain things every day. I can do this before, after, or during the times the kids are on and use the same exact BW either way. My firewall is reject unless specifically allowed (limits trojans and spurious connections), I use squid and have every PC set to use it via a proxy.pac autoconfig (currently at over a 45% hit rate after 80k requests) and a caching DNS server.

      Customer support (additional troubleshooting)

      Maybe, maybe not, I also think this would reduce support as you can eliminate probles related to your PC as you can try another one, or blame it on the ISP.. I would also suggest that a person with a multipc setup is probably smarter then the average computer user and would call support less.

      Security (more machines, more chance for trojans, etc)

      This is laughable. It would be much safer to have 15 computers behind a NAT box/firewall then one Windows or misconfigured Linux machine directly connected.

      Repairs (the guy with six people sharing a cable modem is going to expect instant service restoration, whether he's paying for it or not)

      So what your saying is everyone with one computer should not expect good service and fast repairs? They just sit back and wait for the ISP to find the problem and they should not expect the service to work when they need it?

      You do have points but those can not be seperated into those with and without NAT.

      And frankly, it ain't your network. If you want to start up an "all the bandwidth you want for free" ISP, knock yourself out.

      What do you mean set one up, they are everywhere. Check the advertisements for Comcast, RR, Verizon, Speakeasy, and many others. They all say pretty much the same... Unlimited internet and connected all the time so your online experience is fast and quick. Maybe they should change their tune. Kind of like my cell phone plan.. Unlimited nights and weekends, free long distance, unlimited phone to phone, and unlimited web access. Do you think I should feel guilty when I use it? I don't, that's what they are advertising and that's what I bought the damn things for. Sure as shit, I browse the web with the phone whenever i want, I call all my relatives after 9:00pm or any time during the weekend, and I call phone to phone just because I can.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
  3. Re:not all ISPs care by Sabalon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mine says you're not supposed to, yet the installers recommended a brand of NAT device to buy.

    Wish I had that on tape :)

  4. Re:Change TTL by Skapare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Get source code. Hack away. Make it set the TTL to 128 when it's in the NAT part of the code. Bingo, problem solved.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  5. Re:Err and that is the USERS problem ?? by gripdamage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That is usually the difference between business and consumer internet connections.

    Consumer bandwidth is oversold to decrease the price, and the ISP expects you to not max out your bandwidth all the time.

    Business connections allow you to connect as many people as you want, run servers, max out your bandwidth 24/7, and you pay the price.

    If you want business access, buy it cheapskate. Don't rant and rave about your ISP because you don't understand what kind of service you've contracted for. What you really asking for is for them to get rid of the consumer tier and force everyone to pay business tier prices. That would give us all less choices.

    My complaint about anti-NAT measures is that though I have multiple computers connected, one is my laptop and one is my fileserver (for stuff that doesn't all fit on my laptop's HD). Only one person ever accesses the internet from my house. Multiple computers != Higher bandwidth usage. If the problem is bandwidth than they should check for excessive bandwidth usage, not NAT hosts.

  6. How is this anyone's business? by samantha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I pay for 384k bi-directional. Why is it anyone's business if I run a subnet in my home to tie my cluster together? I am still not getting any more bandwidth, I am simply subdividing the bandwidth among machines. Same argument holds for making the subnet wireless. What exactly is there to object to? What am I supposed to be ripping off?

    And when are we going to rise up and tell the greedy, small-minded busy-bodies to take a flying leap? I am beginning to think it isn't even about greed but more about control for the sake of control.