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AMD: No Grease For You!
bahamat writes "In a surprising turn of events, this article over at Xtreme Tek explains that the official stance from AMD is that you will void your warranty if you use any thermal grease or if you're not using the heatsink provided with your CPU. Sucks to be you if you buy a defective AMD CPU and put a Zalman on it for the first boot." AMD, the article says, doesn't want you to use anything "other than Shin Estu G 749."
Rubbing alcohol! They'll never know.
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Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
AMD doesn't want to be responsible for people using too weak of heatsink/fans or too much thermal grease. What is the problem here?
Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born.
--Ronald Reagan
You do something that could potentially damage the processor (read the article), the company is perfectly well within its legal and moral rights to void the warranty. The warranty is not insurance against malice or stupidity.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
If you're an idiot and break your processor while overclocking on it, why should AMD pay?
Why should us other AMD customers pay for that matter?
I'm astonished that there's any kind of warranty for broken/melted cores at all.How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Well printer companies already do this with their "official inks" and every other company does this so that you use more of their stuff.
Is it good business? Maybe. See below:
Is is going to make customers like you? Hell NO!
Why slashdot? Why not?
Those who bothered to read the article would have found this little gem of a quote from Arctic Silver at the end:
Yeah, and anyone who takes their under-warranty low power, fuel efficient car and replaces the radiator with an unapproved aftermarket part, and replaces the coolant with something that doesn't meet manufacturer requirements, probably won't get warranty service, either!
They can't *prevent* you from doing it.....
Any warrantee beyond the implied one usually required by law (fitness for a particular purpose, etc) is OPTIONAL, and they don't have to offer one at all; and if they DO, it can be under whatever terms they like.
So... if you take it home and it's busted out of the box, yeah, they have to do something about it.. because that's the law.
IF it breaks in six months, but had a 12 month guarantee on it saying you had to use the original cooler.. and you used another one, why should they honor it?
I am one of those people who assemble a PC, and don't touch it except to clean it out. I bought a retail AMD processor applied the HS/Fan that came with it, and have never had to take it off.
AMD only warranties RETAIL CPUs, OEM CPUs are usually warrantied by the retailer, usually if you buy a HS/Fan from them. So, if you buy OEM CPUs this doesn't apply to you. If you intend on using arctic silver / Zalman, then buy a OEM CPU (tcwo.com warrants them for a year with a HS/Fan purchase). If you want your warranty backed by AMD, buy a Retail procassor and use the included HS/Fan.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
What if you're just trying to be responsible, and applied thermal compound to your cpu as per standard industry practice? Should you be responsible for a faulty CPU when you took every reasonable effort to protect it from overheating?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Actually, this is the kind of crap that drives me nuts about California. Why the hell do they think that they have any business messing with product warranties? Its crap like this that adds up to a $30+ billion deficit...
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
The fan on the "stock heatsink" they talk about is less than quiet, but more importantly is poor enough that in many cases it will not even last the life of the warranty on the CPU.
Ummmm...lets think about this for a minute. The fan fails while under warranty. The whole point of a warranty is to cover failures within the warranty period. You don't want to make a warranty claim and would rather resolve the problem yourself without involving the manufacturer. I don't see the problem here, as it sounds to me like you have no interest in invoking the warranty.
Why do you think WD-40 works similarly to acetone? Because it contains varsol, a blend of three (IIRC) solvents. At the same time, WD-40 is greasy and will leave a film on whatever you use it on. And no, toilet paper won't get it all off!
I dont see how it would hurt the cpu, but still if the cpu is dead to begin with, spraying it down with WD40 isn't going to break it more then what it already is
I have two AMD Athlon MP 2000+'s in on a Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard, and a gig of ram, in a full-tower case with four intake fans -- one on the bottom front, one on the side middle over the cards, and two in the middle back under the power supply. The exhaust fan is the PS, of course.
First problem! You need at least as many exhaust fans as you have intakes, maybe one more if you are counting the PS fan as an exhaust. Turn the two in the back of your case around, and I bet the CPU temperatures will drop 10 or 15 degrees.
When running Windows 2000 on this machine, the operating temp as reported by the BIOS runs between 50c and 60c.
When I run Gentoo Linux [gentoo.org], set up from a stage1 install and compiled specifically for the Athlon MP, the machine crashes as the temperature rises to 75c.
Are you playing UT2k3 in Windows, or using Office? Compiling code (something gentoo does *a lot* of!) taxes the CPUs and generates quite a bit of heat, writing a letter in Word doesn't. That might explain the difference in Windows and Linux operating temps. Also, make sure you have "make CPU idle calls when idle" option set in your kernel config, and check this thread in the gentoo forums about enabling halt-cooling in the chipset. It doesn't specifically mention your board, but it has links to sites that might.
0 1 - just my two bits
As far as I know they don't warranty the heatsink fan
If it's sold as a single unit, it's under warranty as a single unit.
it would not be reasonable for them to expect a user to not use their computer for the time it takes to ship back a bad fan and get a replacement.
Think about what you are saying. It happens all the time with faulty cpus - why would another component of the same package failing be different? "It would not be reasonable ... to ship back a bad cpu"?
Oh really. If you were AMD and you were trying to compete against Intel, what the heck would you do? You don't have time to worry about that stuff right now, and besides, who the heck cares. Ever since I have been using AMD (2 years ago) with my Duron 650 Spitefire (codename) I have never had a problem with overheating. Now I run an original Socket A Athlon (thunderbird) 1400, Not a problem. Yes, AMD should build heatsinks into their processors, however they currently don't and you can do anything about it. And by the way, after reading half of the replies, I get sick of hearing about how loud the stock fan, SO WHAT, just replace it. The chances of your processor overheating (if you install it right and DON'T OVERCLOCK) are so low, it's not even funny. And oh yeah, for those of you who say that the core crushes in really easily, sure it does, if you take a sledgehammer to it ;)
That's funny, because myself, being quite the geek, don't understand when my mother talks about the proper methods of filing a T4 or the odd things people do when it comes time for quarterly reports or when people rant and rave about missing lunch hour at month's end. When my brother in law talks about using six-penny nails when a brad nailer is more appropriate, or running the wrong kind of hydraulic fluid in a bailer, or ...
To them, it's a big deal. To their colleagues, it's topical and interesting; often even a topic of great heated discourse over a ${BEVERAGE}. Everybody's career / hobby has its own set of idiosyncrasies (and esoteric dialog). In that regard, we're not unique or unusual. Really.
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
I fail to see your point. If a company provides a warrenty on one of thier products, they are well within thier rights to provide "groundrules" for the use and application of thier product.
Lets say I amble over to the local Toyota deal and buy myself a shiny new Tacoma pickup. I want to supercharge it. Toyota states that the only supercharger which may be used without voiding the warrenty is the TRD approved unit. I put on an ACME one I got off eBay. Should Toyota honor thier warrenty when the engine goes !!BOOM!!.
I've used Shin Etsu G-746 for ~3 years and have yet to have it dry out. While I have never used G-749 I do know that Hitachi used G-746 on their S/390 compatable mainframe line and I highly doubt that they would go with a low quality silicone compound considering the quality of the components in those things (no generic parts anywhere, everything of the highest quality).
It would depend on how AMD is going to resolve the warenty on the fan. Do they require shipping it back? How long does it take to replace the defunct unit? It may very well end up being quicker and cheaper to get a superior part on one's own.
Now - a replacement CPU. That's a far more expensive part. Price will likely outweight many people's time requirements.
Yes, ok, AMD are trying to save a few dollars here and there, is that so bad? How much did you save on your last AMD CPU compared to an intel?
I'm sure AMD is swamped with indirect customer returns due to badly installed heatsinks, squashed dies and fried CPU's most of which could probably be avoided by a policy like this. Thus saving AMD money, and probably YOU money.
I would have prefered that had compiled a recommended list of heatsink/fans which they would accept as warranty compatible.
I'm sure I break at least 2 warranties on various products everyday! Every company does it, it protects their product from a bad reputation due to faulty third party products.
Anyway, enough of my ranting, I still love ya AMD, tho' I aint using your stinkin' heatsinks.
In order to get my CPU out so I could exchange the board I had to remove the heatsink. In order to put the CPU / heatsink in my new board I had to use thermal grease as you are not supposed to use the pads twice.
It looks like I know have no CPU warranty. Nice.
It's too bad that AMD has taken this stance with their warranties. Comparatively speaking, there can't be that many people who go nuts with the thermal grease and heat sinks, and even less so the number of people who actually mess up their CPUs.
For customer relations' sake, it seems that their move was imprudent. Had they just decided to quietly replace a few CPUs and not make a fuss, they would have looked better as a "corporate citizen."
They may be saving a few dollars down the road but the bad will that their move generated may have repercussions later. Slashdotters, are you mad enough to actually switch to another vendor?
spread it thinly across using a credit card
Spreading the grease is a bad idea. It puts ridges and valleys in the grease. When the parts are mated, the trapped air pockets create voids. Not a good idea. Always put a small dab in the center of the die and set the heatsink on it. Apply pressure and lock into place. The blob flattens out forcing all air out ahead of the grease. This prevents hotspots that lead to die failure. Don't remove the heatsink to inspect it. If you ever remove the heatsink, completely clean it and start over. You don't want air pockets in the grease.
The truth shall set you free!
No. This thread is about warranties on unmodified chips. According to the Extreme Tek article, "In fact, according to AMD there is no warranty at all on OEM chips," whether or not you mess with the original fan. The post I replied to did not address the third-party heat-sink question, but the OEM question. It objected to the statement that in California, "State Law mandates a 1 year parts and manufacturing warranty irregardless of OEM status or not."
So this thread has nothing to do with putting on third-party heat sinks and is about whether AMD has to provide warranties on unmodified OEM chips.