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Beyond Linux From Scratch 1.0 Released
An anonymous reader writes "DistroWatch reports about the 1.0 release of Beyond Linux From Scratch (BLFS), a subproject of Linux From Scratch: 'The BLFS Development team is proud to announce the release of BLFS 1.0. With this release, you can take your LFS 4.1 base beyond a development system. It can be a desktop, a firewall, a multimedia player/editor, an Apache web server or all of the above. You install only what you need. Your Distro. Your Rules. Enjoy.'" Choose the closest mirror...
Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org] is not a disto, but a set of instructions for building a GNU/Linux system from little more than an existing distro. The Beyond Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org] project builds on this tradition, providing instructions for installing a number of other packages.
:-)
Having said that, I would recommend that anyone serious about furthering their knowledge of Linux, and at least 750MB of free hard disk space should give it a go. I got into Linux back in '93, and knew quite a lot. Then I stumbled across Linux From Scratch (LFS) - I didn't realise how much I didn't know until finishing my first complete build.
I now run an number of LFS-based systems at home and at work, and have never looked back.
BTW, I am typing this on my Gentoo [gentoo.org], 1.4_rc4 build.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
LFS, for example, does not tell you how to install X windows from the source.
BLFS tells you about major packages and their dependencies.
LFS has been around for a lot longer than Gentoo, and is a different approach. Rather than hold your hand and let all the scripts do the work, LFS tells you how to do it and gives you commands but also the options for how to do it. It is more a teach-yourself-linux distro, in that you learn about interdependencies, the order which certain packages must be installed, and what each package does. Every single file created on the system can be accounted for this way. LFS is just the base system, and BLFS is seen as an extension of the base system, providing the means to customize a functional base linux system with only thoe applications you want! A faster and cleaner system I have not found anywhere! (not even gentoo, sorry! :-P)
I've installed LFS before. LFS is just the instructions on how to install Linux from scratch (hence the name, Linux From Scratch). They supply a few pieces of software conveniently in one place so you don't have to spend hours finding it on your own and figuring out what version goes with what. It is just enough to get an OS that works, but not enough to do much except put more software on it.
BLFS is a collection of instructions for installing various bits of popular software like Gnome, KDE, Mozilla, and more.
I would like to point out that LFS is not Gentoo. LFS is literally Linux From Scratch. There are no installation scripts. There are no system management tools. There is no pretty interface, or simple instructions. It is a book, not a piece of software.
You literally go through each piece of software and configure, compile, and install it. It is pretty cool because they describe what each piece of software is for, and you can see how one piece builds on another. You'll certainly never look at your system the same again, because you'll know what each bit does.
I wouldn't suggest trying LFS unless you are interested in what exactly goes on under the hood, or you are building your own distro from scratch.
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
It's actually very different from Gentoo. There's
/bin & /sbin to be
a whole host of choices you can make when building
a package from source. Most of these are made for
you in the ports setup.
For instance, I may prefer *not* to have GNU
gettext linked into everything. Or perhaps I want
every installed program in
statically linked so I can recover if my
libraries somehow get hosed.
Don't get me wrong, Gentoo is good for eeking
performance out of your dist. But you don't
get exposed to nearly as many design decisions
as you do when building from scratch. I recommend
that anyone serious about *nix admin try it at
least once.
On your last point, I wholeheartedly agree.
When you upgrade/install a package from source
on a production system, you're basically trusting
that the creator of the package you're installing
has thouroughly tested it. This usually is not
the case. When you install a package from your
vendor, they've at least done some basic testing.
Beond Linux From Scratch is a great resource for expanding an LFS system, but don't forget about the LFS hints! http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org
There is lots of valuable information in the form of hints that is not available in BLFS
Gentoo is a source-based distro built for power users. It's designed for maximum usability; most of the installation process is automated. (LiveCD, bootstrap.sh, stage tarballs... it's all there so you can get up and running in a hurry.)
In contrast, Linux From Scratch is more designed for people who are interested in learning about the internals of a Linux system. There's no bootstrap.sh; you do everything by hand.
If you're looking for a kickass source distro with a minimum of hassle, use Gentoo. If you want to know the nitty gritty details of how a linux system works, check out LFS.
Silly is a state of mind. Stupid is a way of life.
Sigh... /. editors, I love you for causing an absurd amount of trouble for me. I thank you for promoting our projects, I just wish you guys would have contacted us before linking to the main websites.
;p)
:)
We've had hosting issues ever since our main server was taken off the VA network last October, and since then things have been hosted on my personal server. Anyways, I just wanted to rant little, considering i'm at the other end of this slashdotting.. (not like it's my first time, more like 8th now
At least use the mirrors guys.. please
Gentoo is very simple to install. The instructions are clear and easy to follow. It teaches you a lot about Linux, not as much as LFS but enough to fascinate most techies without being *too* much like hard work.
The real selling point of Gentoo is the portage system. Want to try a new application? Type "emerge appname", and go have a coffee whilst it fetches the sources, compiles it optimised for your system, and then configures and installs it all for you. Want to update every application on your computer to the newest version? Type "emerge -u world".
It really is the most easy to maintain system I have ever used, and the only distro where installing and updating software is simpler than Windows. Whilst both Gentoo and LFS let you get a good look under the hood, the difference (as parent poster points out) in maintaining the systems is a gulf apart.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
All of the source based distributions are based on LFS. he whole point of LFS was to teach you how to make your own distribution. The problem was in order to teach people how to make a distribution, it was necessary to make a reference distribution (well, they referenced packages in the LFS-HOWTO, and ended up making the versions they used in making the HOWTO available, so by default this becomes a distro). It kind of grew from there. Gentoo/SourceMage/Sourcerer/etc take the LFS packages and add scripts that automate the download/compile and an installer, among other things.
So in essence the main reason to go through the LFS and such is to learn more about how Linux works and how to make your own distro (or better understand why your distro does things the way they do). Sourcemage is my current favorite distribution, but I have ordered the new LFS book because I want to learn more. (the Howto, sources, and I think even the book are also available online).
Knoppix actually works quite well. You won't be able to do the lilo setup, but grub works just fine -- I'd highly reccomend it over trying to set things up with cygwin, which is sometimes a bit funky about gcc and glibc versions.
We who were living are now dying
With a little patience
urpm[i/e/q/f/whatever] is your friend.
:)
:)
urpme postfix
To satisfy dependencies, the following packages are going to be removed (9 MB):
mutt-1.4.1i-1.1mdk
postfix-2.0.6-1mdk
Is this OK? (Y/n)
There are graphical tools to manage thsi as well. Using straight RPM in Mandrake is like putting your nuts in a vice. There's no fucking point, and it's painful and stupid as all hell.
Ok, there are times when using rpm is nice/required, but very very rarely since urpm(x) does dependency checking and automatic downloads if you have your sources set up properly.
That being said, I like sorcerer, and use it as my primary OS.
There are instructions on how to use RPM or other package managers in the "hints" section.
I don't consider myself a guru, but 'I would say I know enough'. I've done the whole LFS/source based distro thing for a while now so here's my take on things.
I think it's important to make a distinction between LFS and Gentoo/SGL/Sourcemage/Lunar/uPM. LFS is a book that describes the process of producing a minimal linux installation that is capable of building software. The source based distros provide scripts/tools that automate the build process for you. Which you choose is largly dependent on your needs.
It seems from your post that you are interested in learning what makes GNU/Linux tick: what files do what, what software is required and what's bloat, and generally what goes on under the hood. For this I found that there is no substitute for LFS, it took me from Mandrake newbie to power-user in a couple of months. This was a good few years ago and at the time there was no BLFS, I feel that that actually helped me with learning the stuff. LFS held my hand through the installation of the base system, but after that I was forced to RTFM, making my own mistakes and learning from them. After 2 or 3 months I had a fully functional system with KDE, apache and a bunch of other stuff. I also had learned many times more than I did in over a year of using mandrake.
My new shiney LFS system was a joy to behold, but it became a real pain to maintain. I found that an unacceptable portion of my time was spent updating software manually and it was effecting my productivity. This was around the same time that SGL first appeared on freshmeat. I had tinkered for a while with LFSmake but found that it wasn't flexible enough. SGL was wonderful, I traded a small amount of the total control that LFS gave me for a system that saved me 80% of the time I was spending on keeping my system up to date.
Unfortunatley there was a bit of a storm in the SGL teacup which resulted in SGL going offline for a while and 2 forks appearing (Sourcemage and Lunar). Initially I went with Sourcemage but I found that after a while it became too unstable and as I was using it for work I couldn't have that (it may well be better now, I've not checked it out in a while). I switched to Lunar and am still using it now. It doesn't provide the same education as LFS, but once that knowledge is aquired it provides a much more efficient means of installing/maintaining your system.
I should say that I did once try gentoo but I was put off by the complete lack of an installer. You have to jump through too many hoops (and triangles, hexagons and other polyhedra) to get the thing up and running. uPM also looks interesting but is still in a relativly eary stage of development.
To sum it all up: LFS cannot be beaten for it's educational value, but for day-to-day use Lunar suits me best.
I just got my LFS 4.1 book in the mail a few days ago. I like it even better now that i have a hard copy of it. I just wish BLFS came in hardcopy....or maybe it does, i'll have to check.
75% of all statistics are made up!
There are huge benefits from this effort.
First of all they tell you how to fetch, recompile and configure a whole lot of standard packages. Want to enhance your RH9 distribution with ALSA? head for these guys' documentation and you'll be home and dry in no time.
Second of all this documentation covers a lot of things in a very tight format. Want to configure an anonymous CVS server? there you go.
Finally this effort frees the whole community from the grips of the distribution vendors. If all goes to hell in a handbasket and your favourite distro turns its back on you, you can still survive, fix, patch and generally maintain what you've got, or start from scratch.
Thanks B/LFS!