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O'Reilly Commits to Short Copyright Durations

Sam King writes "I found the following link on the lisnews.com site: O'Reilly Adopts 1790 Copyright Durations. A small but encouraging step taken by a publisher." We should provide direct links to O'Reilly's announcement and the Founder's Copyright website.

14 of 336 comments (clear)

  1. Interesting but... by madman101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How long are computer books useful these days?

    1. Re:Interesting but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      K&R C still classic and good

    2. Re:Interesting but... by Arcturax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Probably not that long, but that is part of the point. How useful is steamboat Mickey to Disney anymore other than to use as filler on an overpriced DVD?

      Also, sometimes good ideas come out of old books, ideas that were valid then and still valid today. I imagine "Unix in a nutshell" will be as useful twenty years from now as it is today.

      --

      --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
    3. Re:Interesting but... by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "How useful is steamboat Mickey to Disney anymore other than to use as filler on an overpriced DVD?"

      That's part of the reason to keep copyrights short. Encourage more diverse growth. Why invent a new character when you have a monopoly on the one you've got?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:Interesting but... by SoftCoreHonesty · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are confusing copyright and trademarks. Disney holds several trademarks on Mickey Mouse and his likeness. Trademarks can be renewed forever.

      The copyrights for Steamboat Willy are for the screenplay and the actual movie only. These copyrights should have run out long ago.

      Even if "Steamboat Willy" becomes public domain people would still have to pay Disney to use Mickey Mouse.

    5. Re:Interesting but... by SoftCoreHonesty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow. Are you way off base. Copyright is a government endorsed temporary monopoly on the distribution of a creative work. It is intended to be a short term incentive to artists to create and be rewarded for their work. Copyright law has nothing to do with the intrinsic or perceived value of a title. The worst novel is protected just as equally as the best.

      In your mind I assume that the works of Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Dickens, Milton, etc. should all still be copyright protected because they still hold value? I am not sure how you can justify that one.

    6. Re:Interesting but... by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dunno, I might pay a little to see Micky get eaten by a dinosaur.

    7. Re:Interesting but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ideas are not property. Inventions are not property. Copyright laws weren't invented to protect 'property' (there are other laws for this, dealing with 'larceny') but to allow creative sorts some measure of time to profit from their work before said work was turned over to the commons.

      It was a fundamental assumption of the Founding Fathers that no man could own an idea or an invention, that all creative work was derivate of work that came before it, and therefore that it must eventually be given over to the public (in essence, nothing you do in this regard is ever truly original). One of the great Orwellian word-plays of the day is to take intellectual labor and turn it into intellectual 'property', equating it to physical property. Just look how many people buy into the nonsense, and actually argue in support of it!

      Copyrights are not about protecting property but about protecting the motivation of people to create, by giving them a decent time to profit from creativity. There is no 'property' in these endeavors, nor has there ever been any property. The entire concept of property is utterly irrelevant when it comes to copyright, although there are plenty of brainwashed idiots who take what's spoon-fed to them and parrot it endlessly, letting others do their thinking for them.

      The problem with long copyrights is relatively straight-forward: what you invent is by necessity based upon all relevant inventions, research, and science that's gone before you. Your invention would not have been possible if these things had not been available to you. Overly long copyrights make it possible to stifle or even bring creation to a screeching halt because they profit only those invested in the status quo. Why bother to invent thing x if Company ABC is going to sue you for it, or require an enormous licensing fee, because your invention stands upon the shoulders of what they've done? In essence, these copyright laws claim that Company ABC is perfectly justified in claiming ownership not only in what they invented, but also everything that's gone before their invention - and that future potential inventors aren't allowed to do the same.

      Remember, we live in a society where copyright extends to 1-click shopping and naturally occurring phenomena, like genes. You don't even have to invent something derivate, you simply have to yell 'dibs!' fast enough to get a patent. And once you do, it's wholely within your power to put an end to any invention based upon whatever you've copyrighted, or to make the price of entry so high most folks won't bother.

      According to the U.S. Constitution, the highest law in the land, there exists one and only one justifiable reason for copyright:

      "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; "

      Anything else is bullshit, and uncontitutional besides.

  2. That's the point by nuggz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is the point, if they only have a shelf life of 5 years, why do we need 100 years of copyright protection?

    This is a real company proving that shorter terms will have a very small, if any effect on them. And provide a case study that short terms are effective.

  3. Old Manuals are often very good by starseeker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "thirty-year-old computer science manuals aren't in particularly high demand"

    Not always true. Well written computer science books can often be timeless, and occasionally software can last that long or longer. An example is Maxima (http://maxima.sf.net) which was largely written back in the late sixties and early seventies and is still active today. I'm involved with the documentation effort on that project, and we would dearly love to be able to include the older manuals written about the system. Recreating docs is not simple!

    There are also other very good reasons for these books to survive even if their subject matter doesn't do so well - 1) If the manuals are collected in a huge central archive as their copyrights expire and they become free, then the poor sucker who has to deal with a rare and/or obscure legacy system will have a place to go 2) The design and usage priciples of the software will be documented. They may suck, but old program != bad ideas. In fact, quite the contrary. Look at TeX, or Emacs. Old programs, but masterpieces of their art.

    Don't knock old manuals. Yes there are huge amounts of crap out there in the computer world, but don't casually throw away knowledge. Even of old computer systems. You never know when you might wish you still had it.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  4. O'Reilly Just Beastiality Porn by Suppafly · · Score: 5, Funny

    O'Reilly is nothing more than Animal porn. They just LOOK like computer books. I should know I saw one at a bookstore and it had an animal on the cover.

    Sick-o's

  5. Woohoo! by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Funny

    Only 16 more years until my copy of O'Reilly's Programming with Curses goes public domain!

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  6. Copyright idea - pay for longer terms? by rhfrommn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a idea that just jumped into my head while reading this thread.

    Why not make copyrights variable? The author could choose to accept the free default (short) copyright, or pay to register for a longer one. And the extra premium you pay for additional years gets more expensive the longer you want it.

    Ok, in order to clarify what I mean, how's this for an example.

    20 years copyright: Free, no registration required.
    30 years: $10,000 registration fee
    40 years: $25,000 registration fee
    50 years: $100,000 registration fee
    75 years: $1,000,000 registration fee

    That way, if you're a big company like Disney and you have something you think will be big, you can pay more to lock it up longer. But if you're willing to let your stuff go into the public domain sooner you don't pay anything.

    Maybe you would allow a copyright holder to change their mind and extend the copyrights later. If you didn't regiser to extend it and your product was a big hit, maybe you could sign up for the longer protection at a later time. Although I think that should be even more expensive than buying the longer copyright protection up front since you could wait till you see how successful your product is before registering (less risk = more cost).

    Even better would be a way to make the copyright charge based on the "value" of the property. Like you'd pay more for a long copyright on Star Wars than you would for a long copyright on Battlestar Galactica. I have no idea how that would work, but it would obviously be a better system than a fixed rate since people who make less from their item don't pay as much to register it.

    I don't know if even *I* like this idea, but it seemed to me that it might be worth throwing out there. Thoughts?

    --
    My motto is: Never give up - unless it's harder than you want it to be.
  7. Changes are coming in tech publishing ... by jc42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For another data point, you might find it interesting to check out the changed rules at Nature magazine. For some reason, /. wouldn't accept the usual html tag, so here's the URL:

    http://npg.nature.com/npg/servlet/Content?data=x ml /05_news.xml&style=xml/05_news.xsl

    In February, they basically dropped the old rule that you had to sign your paper over to them to get it published. Now their rule is that copyright must stay with the original author(s). To get it published, you assign to Nature a license that leaves you with ownership and the right to do essentially everything except give up ownership of your paper. You can use it freely in classroom material, make reprints, and put it up on web sites, as long as you maintain control. You can't hand it over to an employer, no matter what their rules may say.

    If your employer already has a legal claim to your paper, Nature won't publish it. To get it published, your employer must first give you full rights.

    And they are assigning ownership of all previously-published papers back to the authors under the same terms.

    Their intent is to guarantee that any research that they publish can be made available to the public by the author(s), and that employers can't take any publication rights away from an author.

    It'll be interesting to see what other tech publishers do.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.