Harry Potter with Guns

kauff writes "Slate has recently released a somewhat-inspired article about what the Matrix was. You have to read it for yourself. Good way to hype yourself up before Reloaded on May 15th."

Comments

I disagree completely.

[garcia]

I don't agree w/the comment that it blends "mass appeal with cult".

This movie was good period. It had exceptional and ground breaking special effects. The story-line was great and contrary to the comment of the author the dialog was good.

Nope, it didn't have a ready made fan base but it does now.

I wish people would watch movies to watch movies instead of reading into them so much.

Re:I disagree completely.

[efflux]

I wish people would watch movies to watch movies instead of reading into them so much.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say to this, and I wonder what you are trying to say. Are you saying that movies shouldn't have anything to say and that people shouldn't look for what the movie says? Do we just sit a watch a movie mindlessly, without thinking about what it is doing?

This is a very, very odd thing to say.

Re:I disagree completely.

[happyhangone]

I will burn some karma... After watching xmen2 (excellent movie)... and the trailers of matrix reloaded on the same day, i dont see how matrix reloaded would live up the impressive amount of expectation of the fan base. The story seems weak, the effects doesnt look groundbreaking... ok i will see it when is out, but i dont expect to be the mother-of-all-sci-movies...

Re:I disagree completely.

[mnewton32]

watch the first Wachowski brothers movie, Bound. Now *there* was an excellent movie - tension, humor, drama, awesome cinematography and far better dialogue than The Matrix
If you really want /. readers to watch this, you forgot to mention lesbian sex scenes.

Re:I disagree completely.

[rossifer]

Well, they're rather different stories.

The Matrix is a straight up Campbellian hero myth including the departure, wisdom from the old woman, descent into the underworld, return from the underworld, trial, success, bring an important power/artifact back to whoever. Good stuff and usually fun for most audiences (since the Campbellian hero myth is really the story of any successful human life, once enough of the unpleasant details are buffed out).

Blade Runner is a altogether different story. It's a cautionary tale about technology outstripping ethics and some of the real risks when we limit ourselves by what is possible instead of what is right.

The central conflict is an examination of the definition of humanity from an alien perspective (the replicants). At what point does the artificial become natural? Where is the line in the sand where we say, "This is human. That is not." What if they look the same but can't be mature enough to safely coexist because they didn't have a childhood? What if they look the same and remember a childhood? This exploration is set in a tragic context where the replicants could exist, a society in decay, struggling with the aftermath of environmental collapse, presumably from a history of tech/ethical decisions gone wrong (almost no natural animals, remember).

Then there are some closely related questions even more relevant to our lives today: do things have to be human to have rights? Is the ability to feel pain and fear enough to acquire legal protection? The tragedy of mortality, "All those memories lost; like tears in rain." Tyrell, as the technology wielder (creator), must face the pleadings of his imperfect creation and then faces destruction for those imperfections. The obvious issue of slavery, an assertion that is only credible once it is accepted that the replicants are in fact, human. Which ought to be an sobering reminder of the rule that a slave was counted as 3/5 of a person for apportioning representatives just 200 years ago here in the US...

I can completely understand why many people don't like Blade Runner. The questions it raises are intentionally unsettling dilemmas. It's much easier to skim over the depth and see it as a slow moving cop flick with a flaky soundtrack. But if you should choose to look below the surface, there's a world of philosophical exploration going on.

In my personal opinion, Blade Runner is the best movie I've ever seen. Though Fight Club just recently (two years ago) entered the running as a really strong second place... And who cares what Harrison Ford thinks. He's an actor and a damned good one but IMO acting skills rarely translate into anything else of value. Let's be serious here: Are you really expecting the man dating Calista Flockhart to be a shining exemplar of good taste and philosophical insight?

Regards,
Ross

Product Placement? Movie tie-ins?

[evilviper]

Am I the only one sick of product placement and movie tie-ins? I didn't mind too much, since they were all movies I wouldn't like anyhow, but the serious movies such as castaway are becomming multi-hour-long commercials that you have to pay $10 to watch...

I wouldn't think Matrix would stoop that low, except for the current commercial tie-ins, that are making me suspicious.

I really think the MPAA should have a rating to indicate if there is product placement, and how extensive it is...

I would hate to see a good movie series ruined so the studio can make a little bit more money... *cough* *cough* *star wars*

Re:dystopic utopia

[Wingnut64]

Now, if the robots have enough computer power to simulate reality for millions of humans, you might think they have enough computing power to control the power plant, but oh well, I thought it was a clever excuse for a pretty glaring hole in the movie.

Unless reality is simulated client-side in human brains, which would explain how Neo can create his own rules.

Re:yup (was: I disagree completely)

[efflux]

"what is reality ? Is it waht your senses tell it is to your brain ?"- this is a very "budhist question" (not only Tibettan, but accross the differnt form of budhism), and definitely a very valid question !!

It probably was inspired by Plato or Descartes. It's the *Western* philosophy of rationalism.

See here
and
here .

Re:dystopic utopia

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, that's what bugs me the whole time about the movie (which I've seen multiple times -- only topped by TESB)... obviously Neo can manipulate his reality because he's "gifted" (he's found a link to the matrix, he can tap into some control function, whatever, he can just do it). Why can't the agents do the same? They are part of the entity controlling the matrix, so they shouldn't be constrained by the rules created for the humans. But what you say is very interesting. What if the entity driving the matrix can't actually control it because the simulation is run in a distributed neural-network fashion? What if a bunch of humans can sync their simulations because the can somehow control (some of) the input to the simulation? That would explain why the agents can't just do whatever they please.

Re:Is this really that supprising?

[tempest303]

most nerds are just as they appear: losers.

Depends on your definition of "loser" and "nerd" I suppose.

For that matter, what makes the nerds so apart from the rest of the world? When the non-nerd male population watches Die Hard, of course they idolize Bruce Willis, seeing themselves in his shoes, thinking to themselves, "Yeah, I could do that! I am much man!". It's the same thing. Everyone loves fantasy, especially one in which one's self is made brave, important, powerful, etc. It's not just the "nerds" or the "them" as you put it, as though to distinguish yourself from those techno-untouchables. (Well, to be wholly fair, I guess I sort of think of myself as being above the furries, but I'm not sure that's quite the same. ;)

The psychology of mythology - what makes a story?

[hillct]

George Lucas is a bright guy. He worled with noted mythologist Joseph Campbell in designing the story line for the star wars saga, such that it is most compelling to the largest possible audience. The late Joseph Campbell theorised that there are identifiable story elements and common threads in all mythology that makes it so universally compelling and has allowed some stories to live on literally for thousands of years.

George Lucas sought to harness these concepts and taylor a mythology for the modern era, and with the help of Joseph Campbell, he succeeded. I recall hearing comments from many of my colligues that Harry Potter is a lot like Star Wars (back when the first one came out) and my imediate reaction was to examine the common threads where I found an almost identical human struggle. A lost chile finds his way in the world with the guidance of an elder who then (eventually) leaves the student to his own devices, to overcome a great evil, not only to save the world but to save some one or something far more personal to him. This is only a cursory summary of the similarities which were outlined in the article but can be examined more closely after a careful reading of some of Campbell's works on mythology. I recommend the Masks of God or the Mythic Dimention.

IN the case of the Matrix, I believe the brothers who's name I won't attemt to spell, simply stumbled upon this formula. Certainly there are similarities and this is what makes it such a compelling story, but as far as I know, they didn't approach the writing of the story as methodically, or in such a calculating way as did George Lucas or the author of the Harry Potter books.

--CTH

Another pop culture expert...

[benzapp]

A grow tired of these astoundingly ignorant reviews of the matrix. Is it entirely possible that some people, especially hipster professional pop culture critics, are so ignorant of life and philosophy they truly have no idea what the fuck they are talking about?

The matrix is a great movie beacuse it is the first and only movie to really focus on the use of illusion as a tool of social control. From Plato and the allegory of the cave to Nietzsche and is exploration of slave morality, this has been a dominant theme amongst the greatest philosophers.

This movie did well because the people know in their hearts they are not free. They are enslaved by school, learning nothing but conformity and submission, then they work at a company contributing nothing of substance, wasting their lives away until its time to retire.

People know that their lives are impotent, that their hopes and dreams are completely disconnected from the reality in which they live.

This is the story of the 20th century, of people lost without the fiction of religion imposed on their minds, with governments scrambling to impose all sorts of substitutes to give life meaning to a nihilistic population, as well as find new ways to raise a worker class now that physical slavery no longer exists.

The entire social structure of the modern world is a fiction, just as the matrix is a fiction. Both serve the same purpose: to enslave the mind of free men.

Sadly, pop culture experts never read philosophy they look at everything as a fashion, a fad. "The Matrix is a mixture of kung-fu and sci-fi". The Matrix is no more "about" those things than Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is about sex or Plato's Republic is about unemployed Greek guys dressed in Togas. There is a difference between the medium and the message, and this review gets it all wrong.

The Matrix simply uses pop culture theatrical tools as a means to an end, to open the eyes of a people doomed to a life of slavery. It is a noble effort, and one that should be applauded.

Nothing will blow your mind like reading Nietzsche however especially Beyond Good and Evil: Prelude to a Philosophy for the Future.

There is also a whole book out discussing the philosophy of the matrix, but IMHO it is weak.

Re:Another pop culture expert...

[Get Behind the Mule]

The matrix is a great movie beacuse it is the first and only movie to really focus on the use of illusion as a tool of social control.

Oh, come off it. It's a great movie because the fight scenes are bitchin' and Carrie-Anne Moss in her tight black jumpsuit is HOT.

Re:dystopic utopia

[ConceptJunkie]

But, apparently they can. They can take over bodies of humans in the matrix, they can make Neo's mouth disappear, they can create things like the "bug", which clearly can't exist in the "real world".

If you think too hard about what the agents can and cannot do, you will only get a headache. The only conclusion you can draw is that they have somewhat above normal control of "reality", which just got trumped by Neo. I guess the only solution will be to completely outnumber him.... ;-)

How come no one remembers Dark City

[jesuscash]

I think Dark City is all of what the Matrix SHOULD have been...

The emphasis on guns was way too heavy. While I don't believe in the direct connection of gun heavy movies to gun play in real life, this movie does put an interesting spin in the whole argument. Here's these people that can do so much with their mind, just because they believe... Yet they still use guns guns guns. Dark City showed one man take on aliens that enslaved humans for so long and he won, becoming god-like in the aftermath. I totally see this as the path the Matrix series goes. If the gun play goes down in the next two movies, it may redeem itself in my eyes.

despite, not because

[kisrael]

I always thought we liked it depite Keeanu, not because of.

Seriously, I don't think his appeal is that in the Matrix he was a geek who broke into systems, it's more that he's an everyman who learns there's more behind the scenes, and he learns to master that.

The Matrix = Classic Hero Journey

[percepto]

IN the case of the Matrix, I believe the brothers who's name I won't attemt to spell, simply stumbled upon this formula. Certainly there are similarities and this is what makes it such a compelling story, but as far as I know, they didn't approach the writing of the story as methodically, or in such a calculating way as did George Lucas or the author of the Harry Potter books.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I think Neo takes the classic hero journey. Just off the top of my head:

First, he gets the "call to adventure": "Wake up, Neo. The Matrix has you..."

He meets Trinity (at the club), a messenger from beyond who re-affirms the call.

He rejects the call by getting out of the car on the way to meet Morpheus.

Next, he meets Morpheus and accepts the call (takes the red pill). (It was the red one, right?)

After being rescued from the Matrix, he is in the wild (the real world). Here, the old rules don't apply and he must forge a new identity.

While out in the wild, he discovers new powers. His wise mentor is Morpheus. The trickster is Cypher.

Next, he returns home (by jacking back into the Matrix) and brings uses his newfound powers to help the rest of society.

This is the classic hero cycle of hearing the call, rejecting the call, accepting the call, going into the wild, forging a new identity (with the help of a wise mentor), dealing with a trickster, returning from the wild with newfound knowledge and/or powers.

The same structure was used in Star Wars IV-VI and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, which is part of the reason why those two series also resonate with people so much. The hero mythology is a metaphor for life and how to live it.

~percepto

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"You only have to realize the truth."

"What truth?"

"There is no sig."