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Microsoft Bites Apple, Apple Bites Back

Posted by pudge on from the i'll-get-the-popcorn dept.

hype7 writes "The NYT (free reg reqd etc) is running an interesting article on where MS seems to be getting all the ideas for its next big OS release, Longhorn. It's only a quickie, but they look at MS's big news from WinHEC, and their possible sources for inspiration. They also pull out that fantastic Bill Gates quote: 'The one thing Apple's providing now is leadership in colors'; and that Apple execs are now having a laugh of their own over how Longhorn, 'Microsoft's 2005 version of its Windows operating system, apes features that have been in Apple's OS X operating system since 2001.'"

10 of 825 comments (clear)

  1. Flattery and Imitation by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Imitation is the scincerest form of flattery. Where will flattery take you today?

    I recall, years back, an avi making the rounds with Bill Gates speaking (at a MacWorld?) and sheepishly admitting that the Mac was the best or had the best desktop or something along those lines. As if Win95 didn't cement clearly the view that Microsoft indeed was impressed with, at least the look and feel, we get more of this, "Gee, Apple is visionary, so we'll just copy what they do", from the big innovator. Well, no surprise, but I do wonder whether there's an agreement where Microsoft pays Apple for some of this, or is it just payment 'in-kind' (meaning Microsoft products which run on Macs)?

    "As a matter of fact we do have a Research and Development department, we call it, 'Apple Computer, Inc.'"

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Flattery and Imitation by kwerle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny you should say that, since the OS X dev tools are basically updated versions of NextStep.

      Not really.

      Oh, come on.

      Mac OS X is derived from OpenStep, not NeXTSTEP. Most of OS X is derived from OpenStep, not just the development tools.

      Actually, it would probably be more correct to say that Cocoa is derived from OpenStep, and OSX is derived from NeXTSTEP + OpenStep + FreeBSD.

      NeXTSTEP != OpenStep.

      True.

      OpenStep was a rewrite of NeXT's OS done a while back.

      Mostly false. The OS rewrite failed. OpenStep was a rewrite of the appkit APIs. NeXT wanted to rev the OS, but the demand didn't justify it.

      The idea was to standardize, clean up, and open up the Objective-C API, making it something that other vendors could port/run on other platforms, removing some OS-specific stuff out of the NeXTSTEP API.

      The idea was to license it and make more money :-). It ended up not working so well (well, the money part didn't work so well - the APIs kick ass)...

      GNUstep and OpenStep for Solaris and OpenStep for Windows are the fruits of this.

      Not to mention PDO (foundation) on a few more OSs.

      I think of it this way:
      NeXTSTEP 0.x-3.3
      OpenStep was NS v. 4.0
      Rhapsody DR1 was NS v. 5ish
      OSX 10.x is NS v. 6.x ish

      I mean, really. What do you think NSWindow stands for, anyway? How can you say that Cocoa isn't derived from NeXTSTEP?

  2. The both copy each other... by ajiva · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple copies Microsoft, and Microsoft copies Apple.
    Apple coppied the WinXP feature that lets users switch who's logged in without losing state. And Microsoft copies features from Apple. Its the Kettle calling the Pot black...

    1. Re:The both copy each other... by feldsteins · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure Bill & Co. would love to be able to present themselves as free-wheeling hipsters when it suited them (and Apple would love to be able to present themselves as the no-nonsense, utilitarian Corporate Approved Vendor.) But no, there are still meaningful differences between the two companies philosophical approaches.

      The idea that Steve copies Bill as much as Bill copies Steve is ludicrous on it's face. Microsoft copies Apple tons more, always has. Listen, I'm not saying that makes them evil. They're not breaking the law here. Let them copy away! It's good for everyone. I'm merely pointing out that they're not the "innovation powerhouse" that they make themselves out to be. Calling a spade a spade.

      And Apple has been the most consistently anti-DRM company you can name besides the P2P companies themselves. Their current nod to DRM in the iTunes Music Store is an amazing achievement in that they somehow convinced the RIAA that we all might actually buy the music if it wasn't DRM'd to death (see PressPlay, for example). Apple has been as pro-consumer as a company can get in the whole digital music thing. Tossing them in the same bin as Microsoft isn't accurate or fair.

      --
      You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    2. Re:The both copy each other... by ivan256 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If your hard drive dies, you can't re-download it.

      I don't see how this has anything to do with DRM. If they did let you re-download it people would be screaming about Apple keeping tabs on what their users buy.

      Make backups. Then if your computer dies a fiery death you can restore from your backup and keep listening to your music. Apple even made it easy to make backups to writeable DVDs. It's a single mouse click!

      I don't see anybody bitching that record stores don't replace your CDs if you scratch them...

    3. Re:The both copy each other... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Music from the Apple Music store can only be played on Apple computers, on Apple's MP3 software and on Apple's handheld device.

      Except after you've burned them to CD.

      The files have your name embedded in them and won't play if you want to let a friend listen to a copy.

      Except after you've burned them to CD.

      If your hard drive dies, you can't re-download it.

      Except after you've burned them to CD.

      How much more DRM-friendly can you get?

      Well, you could prevent burning to CD, for starters. But iTunes has a giant "BURN DISC" button right there in the upper-right-hand corner. Creates fully unrestricted CD's in Red Book format that can play on any audio CD player.

      If MS had come up with the Microsoft Music Store with the same restrictions, the press would be tearing them apart.

      If that's true--which I dispute, but that's an opinion thing--then it says way more about the press than it does about the Music Store.

  3. osx by jest3r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OSX is a dream OS ..

    I can compile GNU fileutils .. play Warcraft3 .. run Adobe Photoshop .. and use Cron .. all on the same machine in the same OS -natively- without dualbooting .. and you can actually watch fullmotion video (ie DVD's) behind a transparent terminal window thanks to a true OpenGL rendered desktop.

    Apple has done in a few years what many in the Linux community have been trying to do for ages ..

  4. Re:Apple leadership? by AxelTorvalds · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Never mind that fact that they offered a seemless transition over the years from 68000 to PowerPC, from MacOS Classic to MacOS X.

    If you invested in Apple 15 years ago, they still honor your investment. I can't say that the same is true of MS where different versions of Office don't even like to talk to each other and they are constantly pushing for their customers to spend more money.

  5. Its in keeping with Windows XP and the rest of M$ by crovira · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its NOT about churning out a first rate product. First rate products are hard to build take time and don't make you very rich very quickly.

    GM, Ford and AMC don't churn out great cars. No Lamborghini's, no Roll's Royces, not even a Beamer. But they churn out a lot of crappy ones and make some money on each one.

    Its all about the Benjamins. M$ would churn out Goethes, Bachs, Rembrants and Piranene's if anybody figured out a way to make a buck doing that.

    But that's not likely is it? So you get "wanna-be" "rip-off" crap that doesn't work well, look good or last long because there's more money in churning crap.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  6. Senseless debate . . . by xyrw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Consider:

    Would anyone be surprised if Longhorn turns out to be BETTER than OS X?

    Would anyone be shocked if, alternatively, by 2005, OS X had progressed to a further point than Longhorn then?

    And which of you would switch just because of that? As for me, I'm sticking to the Mac anyway.