New US $20 bills Released, Colors & Layout Change

JayBonci writes "CNN is running a story with the newest advances in the original copy-protection arms race, a new US $20 dollar bill. From the article, specifically color and different number arrangements as an improvement over 1996's "Big Face" dollar bills." Little off the norm for Slashdot, but it's interesting since computers have vastly simplified forgery.

Comments

The new $20 bill ...

[Shant3030]

I've always been in favor of having a hologram on our currency. It seems to be an effective way to curb counterfitting. Without a change of the shape and surface area of the bill (ie. a clear patch with a hologram), just changing the colors on a bill is more of a nuisance than a deterrent.

Re:The new $20 bill ...

[Accipiter]

This was actually considered, attempted, and dismissed. The problem with the hologram was that it didn't survive all of the torture tests required, since paper money gets the shit kicked out of it in circulation.

If memory serves, I think the hologram they designed had passed all but one of the torture tests. These included baking them in extremely hot ovens, rolling them, washing them, etc.

The test on which it failed was the crumple test. They set the bill on top of a metal tube, and a shaft came down and pressed the bill into the tube, crushing it incredibly. When it came out and was flattened, the hologram was severely wrinkled and crushed, and the holographic image was (obviously) no longer able to be seen.

What about size?

[sebi]

Isn't it about time that different dollar bills start coming in different sizes? Isn't it pretty standard for counterfeiters to bleach a small denomination bill and print the image of larger ones? Different sizes would at least make this practise a bit more difficult. That doesn't stop forgery in euro-land, but it does make it just a bit more difficult. I thought that holographs would be pretty effective, but in day to day commerce nobody looks to closely. The best way to make sure that your bills are genuine is using ones that are really unpopular. Last weekend was the first time that I saw a 200 Euro bill. And that was one and a half years after the introduction of the currency.

Interactive Flash Movie That shows new features

[phnx90]

http://www.moneyfactory.com/newmoney/flash/interac tivebill/index.cfm

I have some swiss francs.

[Unknown Poltroon]

Not only are they all different colors, with holograms and different sizes, but they also have a raised pattern on each bill, a tiragle, square or circle. I understand why tehy cant change the size of our bills easily, but a raised pattern on the bill would be easy.

Facelift extends to e-moeny too

[jocks]

IN the UK we are about to roll out a massive scheme whereby we don't use our signature to validate our bank card/credit card transactions, we use a PIN number instead.

I guess the days of innocence are passing, my concern is that the general public is going to be the ones that get hurt and the criminals will carry on regardless.

Re:7-10 years?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about that 4 different versions thing... according to this, the average lifespan of a 20 dollar bill is 4 years. Two different types could be in circulation at the same time, but 4?
For that matter, when was the last time you saw an "old-style" 20 from before the last redesign?

Anti-counterfeit or vending lobby?

[adzoox]

I read some time back that that a move like this costs the taxpayer/letter sender close to 200 MILLION everytime we change the currency (stamp machines in postoffices) and that it costs companies like Coca Cola several BILLION to change over or update their machines. It makes me think of the motive. Is it the vending machine industry or anti counterfeiting / retailers lobby?

Moves like this reak of the Sopranos. The same people that make vending/coin change machines also make lottery ticket distribution and numbering systems and slot machines!!

If the vending industry were smart they'd be lobbying for money readers REQUIRED to accept cash at retail that would authenticate bills and serial numbers OR going to plastic/mark of the beast I suppose would solve the whole thing ;)

Re:7-10 years?!?

[Havokmon]

For that matter, when was the last time you saw an "old-style" 20 from before the last redesign?

Yesterday. No foolin.

And not everybody keeps their money in banks.

Forgers (and whistleblowers) beware!

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

At the behest of the FBI (or maybe it is the secret service since counterfeiting is their purview) all color photocopiers in the USA embedded a watermark with a unique serial number identifying the copier used.

For some reason this fact is not well documented, but here is at least one reference(pdf) in an IBM report from 1998. See the section on tracking.

This can be a problem for cheap counterfeiters (well-equipped ones won't have a problem either acquiring a copier on the blackmarket or using a modified one) but it also can suck for whistleblowers making copies of documents. If the copier used can be identified it makes it that much easier for a vengeful company/government to identify the whistleblower and take "corrective action."

Re:Forgers (and whistleblowers) beware!

[Anonymous Coward]

Jah-Wren, you are absolutely right. Color copiers put a pattern that encodes the machines serial number, manufacturer, time and date, on every sheet of paper that puts out. You can confirm this by looking at a sheet of paper which has been copied in a color copier. In the white areas of the image, or the backgrounds, there is a matrix of small yellow dots which are clearly visible under a microscope. Those yellow dots create a code and it repeats throughout the entire image. The code in its entirty covers the area of a postage stamp approximately. It's very real, and very sad. Only the United States Secret Service, and the color copier manufacturers have the software to decode it. At least, that's the way it's supposed to be.

Re:Forgers (and whistleblowers) beware!

[Anonymous Coward]

That was a poor link to the IBM paper, but here is a good link to a fairly reliable source. (editor of the PRIVACY FORUM digest, a cousin to the RISKS FORUM digest which everybody on slashdot OUGHT to read regularly.)

Summary quote pulled from the body of the article:

In fact, rumors about this, often chalked up as an "urban legend," have been
circulating for a long time. This is a bit ironic, given that in the
copier/printer industry it's been well known for years--no secret--that
"invisible" IDs are imprinted on virtually all color xerographic output,
from (apparently) all of the manufacturers. But for persons outside of
"the trade," this hasn't been as widely known (even though the issue goes
back to the early 90's, and the topic has appeared in publications such as
the Wall Street Journal).

Counterfeit Detection

[non]

in europe, many stores, kisoks, etc. have purchased small uv light detectors, especially after a flood of fake 50 bills. the interesting thing is that washed bills of any denomination usually fail this test. at one point i had carried a 50 that i had been told was fake by my bank for six months. i went to another bank and asked them about it, they told me that it was real, and then took me downstairs to while they checked it with the 100,000 machine they have. they also explained that there are very simple tests for checking a bill; they have little ridges stamped into the bill that can't be washed off and are very difficult to fake.

How about some _techie_ proposals?

[dpbsmith]

They have to print a unique serial number on each one, anyway... well, why not a barcoded serial number? You've seen the "Where's George" website... well, as part of Total Information Awareness, why not equip every cash register with a scanner that relays the serial number to a central database, and as soon as the same serial number is seen in two places at the same time, zap!

Yeah, yeah, yeah... not very good... how about get some _creative_ suggestions for ingenious, wonderful, complicated technical fixes?

Re:How about some _techie_ proposals?

[Ioldanach]

You've seen the "Where's George" website... well, as part of Total Information Awareness, why not equip every cash register with a scanner that relays the serial number to a central database, and as soon as the same serial number is seen in two places at the same time, zap!

Anonymity. The people with the tinfoil hats already tend to think the plastic strip with the #'s printed on it (20 20 20 for a $20 for example) includes a magnetic id that tracks who spends what, where. If your suggestion came to pass, the anonymity of purchases made with cash would be just as transparent to law enforcement as credit cards.

While I may never have purchased anything illegal, it still remains that I don't want the government tracking my every purchase. Allowing money tracking (which I do think the currency changes over the next 50 years will work towards) is a slippery slope. Sure, you can claim its ok because its being used to thwart counterfitters, but with all that nice juicy data in the computer they can find all the people who bought pot from some dealer they caught. And then someone decides to extend the 2050 Patriot Act to allow the feds to track down the people who bought certain books without having to ask the bookseller or librarian (like the current Patriot Act allows them to do).

I like my anonymity, thin as that veil is. Please don't give the government an excuse to take it away.

Now if they'd only take Jackson off the twenty...

[zipwow]

If they'd just take Jackson off the twenty, I'd be happy.

If you're not aware, this is the guy that was responsible for deporting many of the native americans to Oklahoma. You might recall that the Cherokee were pretty well "integrated" into society at the time, and they did what any other wronged group would do: they sued in court.

And won. The Supreme Court ruled that "the laws of the state of Georgia 'can have no force' within Cherokee boundaries."

This fine president, who we honor by putting his name on our money, said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!"

What a fine example of our American politics.

-Zipwow

Seems counterproductive

[A nonymous Coward]

The more features you put in a bill, the fancier they get, and that seems to me like more work to detect a counterfeit. How many stores actually have the time to spend even 15 seconds checking every $20 bill? Buy something for $41, pass 3 twenties, get $19 back ... is the clerk really going to spend 45 seconds checking those bills? No way can they do that every time, all day, all year, and be any good at it.

Plus, changing them all the time, now there are several different kinds in circulation, more things to remember to look for.

I'd like to see a good study done of different bills and how much they are counterfeited. You'd have to make allowances for how desirable the different currrencies are. I am not convinced that all these doodads really do any good.

Plastic Money

[awol]

Australia has been using plastic notes for years. These notes are much harder to forge they have a transparent section and a translucent dual sided motiff incorporated into the design to aid forgery identifcation. And that is just for starters, other benefits include that the notes last many times longer (and hence despite the higher cost to produce they save the treasury loads), they go through the wash just fine (and you can even have them in your board shorts whilst surfing without fear of being unable to buy a pie for lunch). They don't really tear (they do but its much harder to get started on the rip) and are generally much more durable. They look kinda weird even for Australian currency, and the one drawback is that IIRC they are a bit more difficult to handle if you are manipulating lots of cash manually.

Re:Plastic Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better - plastic money with those new little radio tags!! Then Big Brother can keep track of every single bill in circulation! Bust counter-fitters (and plumbers, who also take money in cash to avoid taxes; also bad news for counterfitters, btw); clean up the undergound economy, smash the drug trade and the rest of cash-based organized crime, put the kibosh on tax evaders of all stripes; plus oodles of jobs for the coders who have to write the software to make the whole thing run... C'mon, guys - is this brilliant or what?

Re:7-10 years?!?

[Milo Fungus]

Yeah, they're including new security features. That's cool and all, but how often do people really check them?

That's the most troublesome thing about it, IMO. From the article:

Thomas Ferguson, director of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, acknowledged the new bill would not discourage counterfeiters from this process [leaching], but he said there would still be features that, with a quick look, could distinguish a "leached" note as counterfeit.

"It will still have a different watermark and security strip. You could tell the difference in about 15 seconds," Ferguson said. (emphasis mine)

15 seconds?! Imagine how long you would be standing in line at Wal-Mart if the checkers took 15 seconds on every $20 bill they saw! 15 seconds adds up quickly, especially the day after Thanksgiving or Boxing Day. Another thing is that this guy is an expert. He's probably among the most knowledgeable white hat money makers out there. If it takes him 15 seconds, it's bound to take Suzy Dropout, the Wal-Mart checker, a bit longer (if she does it properly, that is).

As an aside, I spent a couple of years in the UK and learned to really appreciate their money system. US notes are BORING. It's good to see more colors on our new ones. Maybe they'll also change the relative sizes of the notes? (Not that changing the sizes would necessarily thwart counterfeiting, but it was a nice touch to the UK system, IMO.)

But why?

[homebru]

What problem is solved by adding another new design?

The two previous designs are still legally in circulation. Since they were / are apparently counterfeitable (is there such a word?), adding a new design does nothing to make the older designs un-counterfeitable.

Unless the older designs of currency are de-monetized, new designs do not solve a problem. (Older readers with military service may remember the MPC[1] script coversion days[2].) Yes, eventually almost all paper money will wind up being captured by banks and turned in for destruction. But it takes years to remove most of a type of bill and the remaining copies are still legal money. So the older patterns are still vulnerable.

[1] MPC - Military Payment Certificates. See google or eBay.
[2] Script conversion days - A twenty-four hour period during which all personnel were required to exchange their MPCs for the same value in a new series (new colors, new pictures). At the end of the conversion period, old series script was worthless and had value only as a colorful curiosity. Failure to exchange meant that you lost. No excuses, no make-ups, see the chaplain.

Deception Dollars!

[funwithstuff]

Does that mean they'll be producing a new Deception Dollar?

http://www.deceptiondollar.com/

Seriously, though, the US could do worse than differentiate its different bills more clearly. Almost every other country makes it clearer (different sizes, very different colours) which can make it tricky for tourists. Australian notes (plastic, bright colours) are great, purely because they go through the wash and come out the other side. But I don't have to count large piles of the slippery things...

There's nothing appealing about Denise Richarards

[cryptochrome]

Those vapid, empty eyes, the mouth hanging open 90% of the time... for sure SHE would never notice if money was counterfeit or not.

It's a "Simpson's" reference

[blach]

Dude,

"Are they Brazilian looking?" is a reference to the great Simpson's episode where homer is kidnapped by Brazilians, and when they get the ransom money, they look at the greenbacks, and note that they sure look like serious financial documents, and then remark something like "Hey, our money is pink and purple" "Yeah, our money sure does look gay"

So there you have it =)

James

Re:What I've never understood...

[MeerCat]

is why there is no recall on older bills?

The US $ has been the worlds leading "hard currency" for quite some time. A large proportion of the issued paper is not in the USA, but is in use overseas. If they recall the older bills, you'll get hit by a huge flood of people desperate to change their notes from all sorts of back-waters (you'll get this anyway even without the recall, but not as much).

This flood of cash movement is a great chance for fraud, and it can cause currency problems as some people may decide to cash in old US to local currency instead, and that would cause all sorts of problems as large amounts of paper money wash back.

When the $100 bill was changed a few years back, it triggered quite a stampede in several countries, as rumours started that the old bills would not be valid.

Anyone doubting how much cash is held overseas - the Columbian drug barons have so much dirty money in US bills that they're unable to clean - in both senses - that they shrink wrap it, stack it in pallets, and are supposed to be holding warehouses full of $5 and $20 bills. One of them reputedly threatened the US that if they didn't call off harrassing him, he'd fly a few pallets over the poorest US ghettos and drop tens of millions of dollars from the air, which would trigger some very nasty riots and major local economic,civic and social problems.

So, in short, I'd suggest a major answer in that the US is being a responsible provider of hard currency by not recalling old notes.

Re:It will still be worth less than the euro....

[thelexx]

Not entirely a troll. The Euro is stronger than the dollar right now, with the dollar having lost ~25% of it's value relative to it over the last several months, and in fact days (check the dollar index chart). The only reason this hasn't bitten the Average Joe in the US square in the ass and HARD is that China has their exchange rate fixed at 8 renminbi to 1 dollar. With our most massive trading partner at a safely fixed rate the current administration is OK with a weakening of the dollar vs the euro for a couple of reasons, the (much) lesser of which is as a boon to US manufacturers (all three or so of them that are still left). The big reason is as a slap at the EU as now all European goods will cost much more in the US, which tend to be the more 'up-market' goods (German cars, French wine, Danish furniture, etc). When the price of an already expensive item is suddenly 25% higher, it has an effect. That'll teach them to go against the wishes of the US, as in the case of Iraq. Also take note of the fact that the major dollar fall of the last week or so coincides nicely with the acquisition of a big fat huge pool of oil.

It's a big mean game being played out there with our money. The new bills are but a sideshow.

Re:Hmmm

[Sylver Dragon]

The question I have now, as I did the last time the US Treasury decided to do this sort of thing is, why would a forger bother with trying to forge one of the newer looking bills? The old $20's are still accepted everywhere, and have not become harder to forge. Seriously, if I was going to do something like this I would just make up a batch of older style $20's, put them in a wallet and run them through a few washer/dryer cycles to make them look a bit beat up. Then trek down to my local Wal-Mart and pass a few of them off to buy stuff. Wash-Rinse-Repeat (literally).
If anything this is just another example of our tax dollars being wasted in a futile attempt to stop a crime which, I believe, is not very rampant. This money could be better spent keeping the govenment out of debt and keeping inflation down. Sure the counterfeit bills increse inflation, but probably less so than the government printing more money everytime it feels the need. If anything, I think we would be better off if the govenment would only print as much money as it destroys, and then turn the presses off.

Re:Obviously a hoax

[NighthawkFoo]

Don't forget about the $100,000 bill.

It was never in public circulation. The department of the Treasury used it internally for transferring funds.

Should paper money die?

[re-geeked]

So, to give you all something to bicker about, I wonder if this means we should go to coins only, and start minting $100, $50, $20, $10, and $5 coins.

Pros:

they can't be counterfeited (or at least it's much harder, correct?)
machine sorting is easier
last longer
that cool jingle in your pocket
will accelerate use of debit cards

Cons:

Form factor - need a coin purse, not a wallet (correctible? credit-card shaped & sized coins?)
Heavier
More expensive to produce (but really, how bad can it be if pennies are coins and $100 bills are paper?)
How big would a $100 coin be anyway?
Will accelerate use of credit cards

Thoughts?

Is U.S. currency a victim of foreign competition?

[mpthompson]

I wonder if these relatively rapid changes to U.S. paper currency are a reaction to the fact there is now another paper currency vying for dominance -- namely the Euro. I believe that the vast majority of counterfeiting of U.S. currency occurs outside the U.S. and if the Euro is considered more secure in this regards it could be a serious threat to the dominance of the U.S. currency throughout the world. If this is indeed the case, it is in our (the U.S.) best interest to react to real and perceived vulnerabilities as quickly as possible and the American public had better get used to these kinds of changes to the revered greenback on a regular basis. As always, competition is a potent catalyst for change.

silly money!

[wfberg]

Pre-euro Dutch money was the absolutely silliest money on earth.

Check out these babies (the top ones are the newest you should be looking at;
10 guilder note
10 guilder note 25 guilder note 50 guilder note
100 guilder note
250 guilder note
1000 guilder note

If you don't have much time, just check out the 250. The newest notes feature almost exclusively abstract images, raised ink as well as different levels of height in paper (quite distinguisable by hand, or even in daylight), LSD induced colors, barcodes, microprints of poems, and no image of any identifiable person whatsoever!

Really, click on those links, and if you collect money (who doesn't? ;-) get your hands on some of those notes.. They are very purdy! Did I mention silly?

I was sad to see these wonderful notes go the way of the dodo with the introduction of the euro.. The euro is even a weaker currency (the guilder was linked to the Deutsch Mark, one of the hardest currencies in the basket).

What about Chips?

[hipster_doofus]

One of the most secure "currencies" I've seen are casino chips. A counterfeiter would have to be incredibly skilled to create anything similar to some of the chips that Chipco and Paulson Gaming produce today. These are the chips that you see most-often at any major casino around the world. Not only is the chip material nearly impossible to duplicate, the counterfeiter would have to have some *very* sophisticated equipment to duplicate the dye and printing that chip manufacturers are able to accomplish.

As an owner of a set of Chipco chips, I can also attest to the fact that they are very durable and easy to clean, which should mean that we wouldn't have to make so much new currency each year just to replace the currency that gets worn out.

Why don't we all start using chips and plaques (the rectangular chips that you see used mostly in high-roller rooms)?

And what about other denominations?

[dacarr]

I once received a bogus $10. Wanna know something weird? Because of the bad quality, it looked a little like that new $20 on CNN.

And the subtle changes thing is nothing new. I mean, the Sackopotatoes dollar coin was apparently put in place to phase out the $1 bill, and before they refaced the $10, they put the security strip into it. As far as the dollar coins, I myself prefer them to $1 bills anyway - I don't have to fart around with trying to convince the farebox on the bus that the bill I feed it is a one, rather I just drop the coin in and go along my merry way. But I digress.

That they're making Yet Another version of the US $20 bill is kinda cool, but let's go with a standard and stick there for a bit. Better yet, let's reface ALL paper currency, conspiracy theories be damned.

It happened to me.

[TerryAtWork]

I was in a coffee shop about 3 am one Saturday when this kid tried to pay for his coffee with a fake ten (This is in Canada, the land where Moose rule).

The fake was easy to spot, printed on smooth paper on a colour ink jet printer - what made me laugh was some of it had got wet and the ink had run...

We called the cops and the kid disappeared.

Re:Are they brazilian looking?

[Gropo]

Since when have the States had Twos?

Since 1776.

An interesting thing to think about - in order to acheive $100:

One, $100 bill

Two, $50 bills

Five, $20 bills

Ten, $10 bills

Twenty, $5 bills

Fifty, $2 bills

One-Hundred, $1 bills

Makes a little more sense now, eh?

Why have money at all?

[bmalia]

I think that carrying around currency is outdated. How much of what you buy these days do you actually pay in cash? I use direct withdrawl for my car payment. When I pull up to a gas station, I'll use the pay-at-the-pump feature with my debit card. The only thing I need cash for is for buying a double-quarter pounder with cheese value meal or maybe a can of Mountain Dew from the vending machine.

Electronic forms of payment are becomming more prefered among vendors. And as a consumer, you should prefer them too. In 7 to 10 years, we should focus our attention on making electronic payments more secure and not finding a color scheme that is difficult to print out on an ink-jet.

Coins and bills are for collectors. Its 2003 people... we're supposed to have flying cars by now!

Re:Are they brazilian looking?

[Amiga Trombone]

If there are two dollar bills are they a limited run, collectible currency thing like silver dollars? what do they look like? why have I never seen one?

I don't know it they're still printed, but they are real, and still in circulation. They just not commonly used.

Here's a link to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. The have a picture of Jefferson on them.

And here's a link to a funny story about someone who recently tried to spend one at a Taco Bell.

you have to...

[zogger]

.. you have to differentiate between the concept of "money" and produced "wealth". You are correct, anything can be made "money" and used, especially at gunpoint and by inertia. the difference is, when your "moeny" is backed by a tangible, it cannot be inflated or deflated arbitarily. it can't be scammed or conned or disappeared or created by trickery. It's (precious metals now) also by far and away the oldest, most used and most "trusted" human currency, all the way back to pre biblical times. And you may still rest assurred, the very high level dudes on the planet still "trust" it. They just don't want you peons to use it, that's all, but they sure do. Don't believe me, go up to any big bullion holding bank and ask for a free sample of their worthless or near worthless precious metals.

They want you to keep using that counterfeit crap they print up, sweet deal for them! they can create boom/bust cycles, get you sucked in on credit, act all pious, the good times are rolling! Then WHAM, lower the boom, create a "depression", and walk away with your wealth for "pennies on the dollar". They just have to make sure they don't get too greedy, have some years in between their scam cycles,especially their larger ones, so people won't revolt against them.

How many factories or farms raptured away into the ether during the so called "great" depression? Zero, that's how many, just title in huge numbers got transferred up stream, all "legal". How convenient for them. Whoops, they also confiscated the gold back then, what a coincidence!

I would support a return to the original US monetary idea, but carry it a step further, to make the true monetary supply reflect produced wealth. I would recommend something along the lines of a monetary supply, that is not only backed and represented by precious metals at the top,those would be the representations called "money" as in coins, but by the top 100 commodities traded the previous fiscal year. These are quantifiable tangibles, produced wealth, verifiable, useful, and real. Those commodities could evolve around society's evolution and business. The supply itself could still be paper for day to day trading, or you would have the option of using the coins for the higher level currency, something durable and that can last. More than likely the coins themselves would become very valuable, with the ability to rise in value as humans work and produce wealth, sort of "interest" in a way, but not inflationary and 'borrowed into existence". The coins themselves raise in value, and the digits aren't as important, ie, example, it wouldn't matter if your 300 grand house now as represented in FRN's only "cost' 30 grand in "real" tangibles based money, or 3 grand for that matter, it really wouldn't matter, you'd still have the house,and no "new" money could be "borrowed into creation", it must represent true *produced* wealth, which is either grown, mined, or combined into a manufactured product. That's IT, that's what "wealth" is. "Money" is different, and eliminating the fraud potential with eliminating fiat currencies is a worthy goal, IMO.

I think keynesian economics and fractional reserve banking are just an absolute scam and lead to huge profits for people who have no moral claim to them other than through force of co-opted government arms and highly advanced shucksterism. It is a huge theft-by-deception,I mean really huge, it's buncoism on a grand scale. If you go back and research the passage of the federal reserve 'act' you will see how incredibly sneaky and bogus it was when it was voted on, because at the time it was reviled. If it worked in the long run we wouldn't be having governmental "debt", it would be impossible almost to even contemplate that, ie, you would find it impossible to "spend" that which you do not have. If fiat currencies had actual lasting value, then so could artificially high "stock" values, after all, it's essentially the same thing, a piece of paper or electronic entry that gets called as "worth" such and such when it is not in a

Re:you have to...

[zogger]

--the "Fed" is in an unusual situation of tgheir own making, because of the nature of using phony money. On one hand, they want a 'strong dollar", so tyhat joe sixpack can buy cheap imports. On the other hand, they want a "weak dollar" so that our exports can be sold overseas easier.

So let's look at what they are doing to go along with this dichotomy (apparent).

destroying the vertical manufacturing base, the real deal when it comes to creating wealth and not just re-arranging wealth. check, moving that stuff offshore as fast as they can.

OK, that leaves agriculture. Whoops, other nations are taking those markets, and fast.

Well, then, mining, that's it, that's the last of actual wealth producing industries. whoops again, "ponderosa mine closed due to the flying three eyed newt owl that nests in the varigated spiderwort".

Hmm, gee.... but but, stuff at the store is still cheap!

why yes, as long as you still have a job and keep using them credit cards!

HAHAHAHAH

It's just SO obvious the great rip-off is coming! It's gonna make the great depression look like a lemonade stand stickup!

I think the scam they will use to stifle dissent then and to impose drastic "police" presence and stop the riots will be biological in origin.
Cut to the US movie set --> "Que biological terrorist attack, take one!"

Telling small lies is hard, it's those really big ones that are easy it appears.

I remember my grandmothers and great aunts telling me about the great depression scam, how tons of the local real estate just shifted hands up stream.

got another one here local. civil war time, south loses, carpet baggers come down. Well, confederate money gets declared "illegal" it's made worthless, you need "union" money. Deal was, no one who lived down here had any "union" money. when the tax came due,or the farm bank note, surprise, no money to pay it. Carpetbaggers picked up entire farms around here for 50 or 60 cents. entire farms. To this day there's two families local here will not speak to each other.

True facts on what happens when your fiat money gets blown out. And lookeee just recent down in argentina, what happened there. It don't matter to US folks much because those are "foreigners on the TV",and "it can't happen here".

Uh huh, yep. It only already happened to peoples grand parents or great grandparents, but it's "impossible" to happen. "just because"

Mostly your are correct, I own "stuff", tangibles. I do business in tangibles as much as possible, sorta hard, but not impossible. I saw what was going to happen in the go-go 90's when I saw how incredibly greedy people can be, and what they think money and wealth are. It's like no one stops to think 'wealth" can't be created out of thin air, it has to be a human being doing something to create "wealth".

Ya, I'm holding out for the next two bubbles, real estate and derivatives. I should do OK then with my "loony" tangibles. I believe in metals, gold, silver, steel, brass, copper and lead. Good stuff.

Re:Um...OK.

[hackstraw]

I don't know how you define "flaw", but Jimmy Carter's reputation is fine.

Currency changes

[labradore]

I, for one, am very sick of all this changing currency. I run a laundromat and depend on a bill changer. If the currency changes then I must pay almost $1000 for a new bill reader to accept the new 20s. The bill reader does not make me money, it is just the cost of doing business. Every time our stupid government decides to change the currency, that's more out of my pocket and into the pockets of the damnable changer manufacturers.

US Currency: Evil (and Good)

[ChaosDiscord]

We have some of the most distinctive currency on the planet. The green and black bills we print are recognized everywhere, in part because no one else is willing to print currency quite that ugly. If you quickly flash a mess of bills from most countries in front of someone, they would be unable to identify the source country. It's just a patchwork of bright colors without any key identifying characteristic. Flash some US dollars and the heavy green markings instantly identifies it.

By being (basically) one color and using the needlessly closed and old fashioned design, we end up with currency that just looks evil. When you look at a good ol' US greenback, you know you're looking at the root of all evil. You have to respect it, in much the same way you might respect a court summons. It's dark and gritty, suitable for underhanded bribes and black market deals. When you frame the first dollar your business earns it remains an ugly green mark on your wall, no one will confuse it for some piece of nice art, it evokes the blood sweat and tears that went into starting the company.

Adding more colors is a mistake. So is opening up the design (Jackson is no longer imprisoned in a bubble). Our currency is starting to look open, friendly. This is an insult to our bill's heritage as something that looks evil and is widely identifiable.

Keep our money evil!

Re:Are they brazilian looking?

[B3ryllium]

According to the Canadian Government, our economy is more robust today than at any time in the past decade. It's funny to see the Canadian dollar at $0.72 American, since it's been at $0.67 for so long.

As for travelling ... well, I've never travelled. I've only left BC and ventured a few miles into Washington. But something tells me that carrying any cash on vacation, at least in some areas, might be a poor idea. Traveller's checks are insured, after all.

Yes, relying on an ATM card is unwise - but the statement that "few banks will exchange canadian money" a few posts above is totally untrue.

Have you ever seen a bank that would refuse to take money from someone?

Why not do the job properly ?

[ukoda]

I recently travelled to the US from New Zealand and found the money a real pain. Kiwi money is plastic and all different colours and sizes. Over here you simply look at the edge of the notes in your wallet to see the correct colour and fish out that one. While in the US I had to remove the notes from my wallet first so I could read the numbers. As a tourist this made me feel uncomfortable about doing public transactions, not being one who likes to 'flash the cash'.
I worked on note vending machines at the time of our change from paper to plastic money so I was one of the people invited to the Reserve Bank to see the features of the new money. We where given real and counterfeit US money and asked to tell which was which, it was impossible to tell to the untrained eye. Then we where shown some of the methods used to try and counterfeit the Australian currency, which uses the same technology as ours. At was funny to see bits of paper with holes cut in them for the clear window etc. They also showed off some ideas they haven't used yet. One was a clear window at each end with printed lines that create an interference pattern when the note is folded in half. I also saw what happens if you over heat the plastic notes, they shrink ! But don't worry you have to get them real hot to do that. On a practical note (no pun intended) you need to look at static handling for new plastic notes in note handling machines or else the stick together.

Re:7-10 years?!?

[kmac06]

My uncle is blind, and can handle money just fine. He folds different bills into different shapes or puts them in different parts of his wallet. When he is getting change from something, he just asks the guy what bill is what and puts it in the appropriate spot.

Re:7-10 years?!?

[PhilHibbs]

There must be some physical difference then. On UK notes, there is a small shape that is of a different texture than the rest of the note - the £5 has a circle, £10 has a diamond, £20 has a square, and the £50 has a triangle.