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Hubbard Asks FreeBSD Hackers To Rename EDOOFUS
MobyTurbo writes "Jordan K. Hubbard, on instruction from Apple, had to inform the freebsd-hackers list that the error, pointed to by the error message number named EDOOFUS, must be changed. Several interesting suggestions have been made in the resulting thread."
EDFS seems like it's obscure enough to not offend, but true enough to the original sentiment to fly for those "in the know".
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
From the article, it doesn't seem like Apple actually asked Hubbard to do anything, nor does it seem like he's saying it "must be changed"... he's just proactively trying to solve a problem before it forks into a silly headache. No need to inflate the drama of the situation any more than it's already going to be.
Obviously the kernel developers need OUR help to sort this sorry mess out. Everyone, please make a google news account ASAP and put your two cents in. If all of us together put our minds to it, and posted our opinions on that thread, I'm sure they would appreciate our help in solving this problem quickly and efficiently. Thanks.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
From: Michael Meltzer (mjm@michaelmeltzer.com) Subject: Re: A modest proposal for better errno values...
View this article only Newsgroups: fa.freebsd.hackers Date: 2003-05-13 16:58:07 PST
> #define EDOOFUS 88 /* Programming error */
#define E370HSSV 88 /* Programming error */
I think this one keeps the orinigal sprite of EDOOFUS, I will now crawl back into my cave :-)
MJM
PS. For the non dyslexics try reading it upsidedown.
Priceless...
Sure, shift the blame from the programmer (/* Programming error */) to the user(EUSERERR)
I don't mean to troll - some of my best friends are FreeBSD users - but somehow, this sort of thing doesn't surprise me. In every circumstance I've ever tried (and believe me, I've tried), I've found FreeBSD coders to be somewhat... elitest. The assumption that anyone who makes a mistake is a 'doofus' doens't surprise me much at all. Oddly enough, though, this is exactly the sort of childishness that many lead FreeBSD team members accuse Linux of.
Why not just change it? Why make it into an issue? Is this some kind of 'fight the man' issue? You'd think they'd have gotten an ego boost from Apple using their code - repeatedly - and by trying to work *with* the community instead of just taking and leaving.
I tried FreeBSD because I thought it would be neat, and it was, until I had to ask someone for help. Then I went back to Linux. Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize that people are people too. Help is more useful than insults.
--Dan
For those who are left in the dark, the bike shed reference is the following:
16.19. Why should I care what color the bikeshed is?
The really, really short answer is that you should not. The somewhat longer answer is that just because you are capable of building a bikeshed does not mean you should stop others from building one just because you do not like the color they plan to paint it. This is a metaphor indicating that you need not argue about every little feature just because you know enough to do so. Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change.
More details at the link.
All weakness is within you, As is all courage.
that gives me an Idea!
national.. no, GLOBAL slashdot Google day.
Once a year, at noon GMT aeverybody does a search on google. I bet we might have such n effect, that it might take as long as 3 seconds to return reslts!
or..aa...not.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
EBUTHEADCOMPUTERCOMPANY
No, it is not a troll. it reference tha outcome of something that happened between Apple and a certian astronomer.
of course, if you are actually qualified to judge statemment about Apple, I wouldn't need this disclaimer. butthead.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It must be when a rather innocuous request to freebsd-hackers makes it to slashdot! Just to set the record straight, I didn't do this "at Apple's request", I did this because it seemed silly to fork a header file over the name of a single entry in it and, as I said in my message to -hackers, I just thought I'd check to see if FreeBSD was willing to change it before Apple changed it in their own sources. Anyone with time to waste can see the original message (and the thread which followed) here:- hackers /2003-May/000791.html
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd
Personally, I rather liked the EDONTPANIC suggestion...
- Jordan Hubbard co-founder, the FreeBSD Project. Director, UNIX Technology. Apple Computer
ESOSUMI
EUCANTCODE
/~mikeg
hmm, Can anyone else picture the strings leading from Jordan's fingers to Steve Job's fingers. I mean cmon, does it really matter? Its like asking a friend to build you a bikeshed then bitching because they didn't do a good enough job.
Frankly most people found it to be a very innocous request. Jordan never demanded anyone change it, and pointed out that if need be, Apple will maintain the changes themselves. The point was that should people start using this ERRNO outside of the kernel, then programmers will need to maintain two different sets of ERRNO values. Just kinda silly.
I think that it adds more character to freebsd than a stale, sterilized and bland OS.
EDOOFUS may add more character, but I think it adds the wrong character. Frankly, it isn't even that funny. Who the hell uses the word doofus anyway?
Then he has the balls to say that he likes a specific name.
Saving some face there Jordan? Good try bud.
Frankly, if you don't think this is a lot funnier, you need to get a life... or possibly actually sit your ass down and read Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. Even Wilko Bulte though this was funny and suggested changing the error number to 42.
Ohh yeah, One more thing. Fix it yourself lazy ass.
Jordan has already said he would fix it himself. He was simply trying to avoid future incompatibilities.
Do us a favor, if you are a FreeBSD user then please consider switching to Linux.
Apple can profit from the labors of the FreeBSD folks, that's cool, I'm in favor of that, but I draw the line when Apple decides it wants to interfere with the FreeBSD culture.
I also find it slighly hypocritical that Apple wants to change a little-known and hardly-used identifier after publically code-naming one of their projects "Butthead Astronomer" in honor of Carl Sagan. Also, as someone on the newsgroup mentioned: The Boolean variable "STUPID" [in Apple Pascal I] --documented as STUdent Programmer ID-- was set TRUE by default, as shipped by Apple Computer.
"It's Dot Com!"
JKH posted this to the developers' list. I don't think he was intending to throw weight around, but more likely ask the guys who actively develop to make a simple change.
Only when it becomes Slashdot discussion does it suddenly seem like he's using politics to change FreeBSD from behind the Apple tree.
Is this in the 5? I did not see anything in 4.8. If so, that will shed some light on the next version of OS X... er Darwin.
Jordan has a point (as he usually does when he speaks up). An errno like that isn't something that's going to be burried in some kernel code for no one to see - that's something that programmers will have to use. I do not use silly variables and function names in my software for several reasons, #1 they aren't descriptive generally and #2 it's just not professional.
..... but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong..
I also agree with Jordan that this individual errno name is trivial but I believe his concern is that it's the start of a trend that could make programming for BSD an exercise in trash talking and English slang.
The idea isn't that FreeBSD committers can't call their errno EDOOFUS, but rather Apple can't as a matter of style. Therefore, EDOOFUS threatens to make the separation between FreeBSD and Darwin/MacOS-X one iota worse than it already is. Forking is an unfortunate necessary evil, and despite the "openness" of the code, there is another dimension of usability, which means portability in this case.
If you make your code open, but people have to add a lot of macros to adapt your code, it isn't as good as if they could just use it as-is. A good programmer is always looking for any affordable way to make his programming effort more useful with less work to make use of it. It's the wisdom of forward-thinking laziness. If your code is hard to adapt, who cares if it is free? The cost of re-use includes blood-and-sweat of integration. Ideally there would be no blood-and-sweat to reuse FreeBSD code. A bad joke (admit it: hacker humor is mostly bad inside jokes) is not a good reason to fork a file IMHO; I agree with JKH.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...
It is damned funny. But I do think it at least supports his contention that he does, in fact, have a sense of humor.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Well here's how I think.
FreeBSD is very much an internet phenomenon.
If you get upset when someone on the internet calls you a 'doofus' then you're not going to get much out of it. If that was the worst thing I'd ever been called... sheesh it's not even a real insult. It's like a nerf insult... I really think anyone that would feel insulted about it is wearing their feelings on their shirtsleeve to an absurd degree. In terms of removing barriers to participation, the barrier here would be the excessive sensitivity, not the word doofus.
Now if the error was ESHITFORBRAINS maybe I could see your point, but doofus? Come on.
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