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Geeking in the Third World

suzipaw writes "Geekcorps founder Ethan Zuckerman, late of Tripod, gets some well-deserved media attention for his good works via an interview on oreilly.com. What he and other volunteers are doing on behalf of developing nations is pretty darn cool. And humbling--makes this first-worlder grateful for a regular power supply."

16 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. I'm all for technology, but... by Sheetrock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    isn't there still an issue with things like, well, food, medicine, clean water, stuff like that?

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    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These are issues as well, but there is also

      Education.
      1. How to grow food
      2. How to clean water
      3. medicine
      a. How to treat the ill
      b. preventive
      i. diet
      ii. HIV!!!!!

      One major issue with 3rd world contries is the massive HIV infection rate. Had a friend working for peace corps who's major irratation was the fact that it was so hard conviencing people that HIV was infact a disease... one which kills. It's somewhat hard to believe, but dispite it's existance in the 1980s it wasn't something people believed either.

      Communication between the 3rd world and the rest of the world would promote little trivial things like taking preventive measures to stop the spread of HIV and other infectious diseases. Hardcopy and people take resources to move... digial communciations takes only power and equipment, equipment the likes we replace every 1.5 years.

      Communication would open the door to the global market place. While under developed countries lack much in the way of industry, there is art, music, and stories. All of these are marketable products.

      Technology is what seperates us from animals, wether it be the basic Bushmen of the Kalahari level that is excelent to insure survivial in a very harsh enviroment, or the high tech that we who can read this enjoy.

      I see a great benifit of raising the global I.Q. of a planet of roughly 6 billion people.

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      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    2. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by monadicIO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, people in the third world do need everyone in the West reminding them how to live and what their priorities should be. Thank you so much for this insightful observation.

      Yes, I'm trolling.

      --

      The law of excluded middle : Either I'm foo or I'm foobar

    3. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Sheetrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It wasn't particularly insightful, I'll agree... it was just the first thing that popped into my head. But it's a relevant question, and I appreciate your answering it.

      I don't mean to bust on you guys at all. I think it's pretty cool work, and requires a level of commitment most people capable of doing it couldn't possibly provide.

      My deeper concern, which goes beyond my flip question, is that we're laying the infrastructure for exploitation by American companies without providing the benefits I feel are due those whose work is sold at American prices but produced for local wages. I believe that technology is a great industry because it's low polluting and hardly resource intensive -- besides the initial investment -- and is easy to globalize. The end point will no doubt be a good one for Ghana, as it grows industries of its own and can fully reap the results of its labor, but in the meantime (decades?) it really bothers me that multinational companies can pocket the difference between the pay of a worker in Ghana and a worker in Los Angeles instead of having to turn it over to reinvestment in Ghanan (is that a word?) development or aid.

      I don't mean to suggest that it's a one-or-the-other thing to support people or business, and of course some wages are better than no wages, but why can't we export the ability to enjoy some of the better parts of US/EU life as well (or at least to afford our patented medication)?

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




  2. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THEY NEED FOOD AND SHELTER FIRST!!

    I think you're joking, but just in case someone takes you seriously: they need the means to PRODUCE their OWN food and shelter. That means technology.

    Give a man a fish, and all that...

  3. Teach them how to fish...... by lysium · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...and they won't need to buy Microsoft products later on.

    Something like this fits perfectly with Linux/OS philosophy. If technicically-minded people in developing nations can be shown how to run modern, full-featured computers/networks with the older hardware available to them, you remove the need for pricey (probably American) consultants, newer, expensive hardware, and newer, license-laden, expensive software.

    Basically, I believe that developing nations deserve to get on their own two feet without tithing a percentage of their resources to American technology firms. Yes, I am an American. And yes, I will be volunteering in the future.

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    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  4. Funny this should come up by SkimTony · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was discussing with a friend of mine last night about organizations such as the peace corps, and my lack of applicable skills to help an NGO (non-governmental-org, I believe). She pointed out that NGOs need people to do all the same things that we need people for here in the first world, citing that the hospital for which she had worked in Haiti required administrative staff and an IS department, despite being a hospital run by an NGO in Haiti.

    I agree that there are definitely priorities, the food and shelter bit. Also, it's remarkably difficult to give people technology when there are so many prerequisites for it. It's a tough call to make, whether www access is that helpful to people in the third world, who may not even have the necessary reading skills (language skills, too) to utilize the information they find.

    That said, if bringing technology to these people also brings literacy and knowledge, then it can be an important step in enabling these people to grow on their own.

    1. Re:Funny this should come up by lysium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a tough call to make, whether www access is that helpful to people in the third world, who may not even have the necessary reading skills (language skills, too) to utilize the information they find. When dealing with populations, its best to think in percentages. Even lowly Chad has a few (okay, very few) people that could benefit from reading the news on the net; in poor countries you are simply missing the middle classes. Let's say 97% of the country is abjectly poor -- the other 3% can still be a sizeable amount of people. So there will always be benefit.

      --
      Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  5. Re:but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The world makes even more sense when you realize that the "rich" people aren't doing anything that you couldn't do yourself to become rich, and sitting around complaining about how unfair life has been to you doesn't help you at all.

  6. Re:Okay... by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Wait, I thought we didn't geek in the third world, we fabricated reasons for war and then went in and took their oil?

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    Free your mind.
  7. Geek out of place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Surely this is a contradiction because geeks are the very products of our very rich, western world.

    eg: People with too much time and money.

    How many Africans do you know that waste huge loads of time and resources on creating scale-models of popular star-ships?

    eg: You damn Star Wars fans!

  8. Re:Engineers Without Borders by hopeless+case · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks for the pointer to their web site. I really like what they are doing.

    I'd like to respond to your point though.

    Money can buy food and water and shelter. So if you can make it possible for some of the brighter people in a poor country to earn money, then you are helping with the 'more important' stuff.

    Even in the poorest countries, you will find a lot of bright young people sitting around with nothing to do. Of all the resources going to waste, surely that is one of the most valuable.

    One of the amazing things about programming is that all you need is to be bright, access to a computer and documentation, and time and you can teach yourself.

    I don't think someone who travels to a poor country and spends their time teaching programming should feel bad they are not tilling the fields instead.

  9. Re:*ahem* by hazem · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is nearly impossible to stop all hunger and disease - look at many 1st world nations that have not accomplished this.

    If your philosophy is not to spend money on anything else until everyone is fed and healthy, then all you'll ever do is give out food and medicine. You'll never spend money on technology or infrastructure because there will always be at least one more hungry or sick person.

    There was a program to distribute cellphones to remote villages in India. You might say they shouldn't do that because there is still unclean water, polio, and hunger. But the villages that received the phones prospered directly from them. Most importantly, they were able to call into the markets of the larger towns to find out how much their crops were selling for. In the past, the middle-men who would transport these crops to the market would pay only what they had to and would make lots of money. Now these middle-men make the money for transporting the goods, but the village most often gets a much better price. The village is now more self-sufficient and can make their own improvements in their living conditions.

    By your philosophy, this would never have happened and they would be beholden the the middlemen who ripped them off, and the international aid agencies that would only give them food.

    And again, there is little I can do to treat an HIV sufferer. But who knows. Mabye I could teach her to develop webpages and she can do something rewarding and even a bit profitable with her life. Would you have her simply waste away in a hospital? What kind of a life is that?

    I can only do what I know how to do. I don't know how to teach better farming or even how to set up water purification, and nor could most geeks. These geeks go and do what they can. By improving one aspect, hopefully the whole system improves.

  10. Fear of "Cultural homogenization"=Western Bigotry by reallocate · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >> ,,, cultural homogenization!

    The 21st Century's version of White Man's Burden.

    It takes a fair amount of Western arrogance and bigotry to decide what's best for someone else. Let people decide for themselves what they want.

    And, I know that's difficult for people who think that non-Westerners aren't really up to the job and have to be protected by "enlightened" anti-corporate well-fed Westerners.

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    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  11. Re:Engineers Without Borders by KrispyKringle · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm involved in an organization which takes corporate-donated computers (and funds), refurbishes them, and installs them in educational centers, schools, Head Start centers, and the like in various cities in the US, as well as on various trips abroad (this summer to Ghana, previously to Ghana, India, Thailand, and Equador). I've often debated that which you mention, whether it is better for me to be doing this or something more important. After all, how can I feel I am doing the right thing when I see a homeless man outside the school I am putting a computer in?

    My feeling is that I don't have skills worth much for some problems. I'm not a doctor or a civil engineer. I can't treat sickness or starvation, and if I were to try, my labor would be little more than manual labor that anyone can do. To be utterly cold and calculating about it, I'd be doing work worth, say, 5 bucks an hour. But when I do this, with what skills I have, I'm donating time worth well more than that, and donating, hopefully, something many times more valuable.

    Many people say that when we bridge the "digital divide" and allow uneducated, agrarian people to take part in the 21st century economy, we are helping to solve their food and medical problems in the long run by solving their poverty. Certainly there is some truth to this; as the old adage goes, when you teach a man to fish, you feed him for his life. This isn't my motivation, though. My motivation is just to do what I can. There are many kinds of service, but I think giving people the opportunity to help people in the ways they know how is best. I know many people who were extremely enthusiastic participants when they found out they could serve the community in a way they were suited to, rather than simply handing out meals at a soup kitchen or pushing around boxes at a food bank.

  12. Re:Ease of use by lysium · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The "ease of use" they are looking for is not the same "ease of use" that a Thai peasant using a P-166 (32 megs of ram, lets say) would be looking for. Linux companies (who want money) are looking to capture postindustrial office workers and particularly stupid consumers. So they are not really the best example for this case.

    And by geek volunteers, do you mean the young, idealist sort? Or the older, wiser, professional, and still idealist sort? The GeekCorps website stresses that it generally declines volunteers who do not have at least 3 to 4 years of work experience under their belt. Idealism does not build irrigation systems, nor does it build efficient information systems. Unfortunately, it takes alot of idealism to work so hard for so little physical reward....it is hard to keep that alive inside of you once you are skilled enough to really make a difference.

    But in a more technical sense, much more can be accomplished by using stolid, unixy tools over guiy, themeable tools. Shells scripts and ncurses menus, written in the local tongue (if possible), with simple editors like nano, and browsers like lynx, will not be able to WYSIWYG or play flash, but it will transmit and store information, and probably never, ever, break.

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    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.