Slashdot Mirror


Students Use 802.11g To Save Cable Industry

LiquidFun writes "Business undergraduates at UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business have written an e-business case for one of their case competitions that describes how to use 802.11g wireless technology to distribute cable content, both interactive and broadcast, throughout the home. They mention features like video-on-demand, cable gaming, etc. and even provide enough of the technical specifications necessary to start believing that this could work. They even make available their PowerPoint presentation that they presented to judges from both Cisco & Deloitte Consulting. I'd say a pretty good job for third-year undergrads."

16 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. Good thing they're just students... by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Informative

    Using the huge infrastructure and bandwidth muscle to eliminate satellite TV from the urban and suburban areas by adding more content-rich and interactive features beyond the bandwidth that satellite TV is capable of handling.


    Lines like these might perk the interest of regulators.

    Ryan Fenton
  2. Text incase of Slashdotting by acposter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Introduction
    This project is a plan to incorporate the three primary uses of the existing nationwide cable network, voice, data and video, into one convenient and easy-to-use package that will satisfy most consumers' communication needs at a
    fair price.

    The long term goal of this project is to maximize shareholder return by becoming the standard by which both urban and suburban American people access these communications mediums. In the short term, the goal is to maintain and increase existing market share by creating a competitive advantage over competitors with overlapping markets using the existing infrastructure.

    Detailed Background of Subject

    Much money and time has been invested in setting up the infrastructure for a nationwide, high-speed cable network. However, market share has been fragmented between many competitors. Today, the cable industry is fighting a battle with the satellite TV, high-speed DSL internet access, and telco phone service companies. Most of these competitors are more formidable in size and financial health.

    Currently, cable is the only medium that can simultaneously offer all three means of communication whereas every other competitor is only able to offer one or two means of communication using its existing infrastructure. Therefore, the cable infrastructure has enormous potential. Despite the possible marketing alliances between satellite television and internet (dial-up and DSL services) companies to provide all three services in conjunction to the consumer, they are still unable to provide these services through a single infrastructure. However, the virtual bundling of these services offered by cable competitors still poses a threat to existing cable market share.

    Detailed Problem Explanation
    If the cable industry were to continue in its current ways, it would face high churn and a relatively shrinking customer base. Furthermore, the cable industry would lose its opportunity to create a competitive advantage. Factors that contribute to this problem include:

    DSL will continue growing twice as fast as cable modems.

    Satellite TV would continue convincing cable customers to switch over with more attractive packages.

    Cable would never enter the telephone industry due to the customer being used to their existing regional phone services.

    While cable operators can expect steep competition from satellite and telecom vendors, Cable currently is the only network architecture of its kind capable of offering not only digital video, high-speed data, and telephony, but other interactive services such as home networking, remote home security monitoring, video conferencing, interactive TV/games, and others. With millions already invested in cable and plant upgrades, many believe that Cable operators are positioned for success if the right decisions are made.

    Cable companies must recognize the fact that their infrastructure already contains large amounts of unused capital. This, in effect, translates into a "free" investment, that is, it can use all this extra bandwidth that it has to offer great services at a very low marginal cost.

    Competitors have reduced prices of packages which then, combined with free equipment promotions, free installation promotions, and multi-receivers, are compelling packages that are eating up more market share.

    Objectives

    We envision...

    Using the huge infrastructure and bandwidth muscle to eliminate satellite TV from the urban and suburban areas by adding more content-rich and interactive features beyond the bandwidth that satellite TV is capable of handling.

    Delivering cable TV, high-speed internet access, telephone with video conferencing, static-free radio, on-demand games and movies, and more through one single medium. Essentially, the cable line becomes the only link needed between the home and the outside world for all cable subscribers.

    Offering a local wireless network within each household by which content is distributed, e

    1. Re:Text incase of Slashdotting by Natalie's+Hot+Grits · · Score: 2, Informative

      What makes cable gaming different from existing gaming networks is that with existing gaming networks, all processing is done locally on the user's own machine. With cable gaming, the required processing is done by the company's machines. This minimizes the actual amount of bandwidth required to travel along physical cable lines, as well as negates the need for a game processor on the consumer end (i.e. a game console; Xbox, Playstation, etc.). The only additional hardware required on the consumer's end is a minimal amount of Random Access Memory (RAM) onboard the digital cable box that acts as buffer memory to ensure a smooth, seamless gaming experience."

      How is this misinformation impressive? There is no evidence that it would take less bandwidth for the server to transmit a video stream rather than just the small data packets that most online gaming servers do. It would be proposterous for the servers to create the 3d video signal to each client. This is just beyond the physical real world right now. No server -- no matter how powerful -- is going to be able to produce such streams to any amount of gaming clients with reasonable latency. This business student can keep dreaming...

      And they wonder why most businesses fail within the first 2 years.. Look at the shit they teach you in business college. This is obvious to anybody with a brain. And this kid is supposed to be a Junior.

      --
      Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
    2. Re:Text incase of Slashdotting by LarsG · · Score: 4, Informative

      Under the 802.11g wireless standard, which is capable of transmitting data at a rate up to 54mpbs

      No, it isn't. Without any interference from other 2.4GHz devices, you can't really expect more than 22Mbps. And that is shared bandwidth - once you have two way connections between the AP and several client devices, they all share the bandwidth. If you have hidden node issues (one client can't hear one of the other clients talking to the AP) you have to go to RTS/CTS mode to avoid collisions which also decrease the effective throughput. There is also no proper QOS in 802.11/b/g, first come first served - on a wireless segment with moderate to heavy load, you can experience lag spikes if several stations wish to transmit at the same time.

      The router will also broadcast a connectionless stream under the UDP/IP protocol to devices such as televisions. This connectionless stream will be broadcasted in real-time, continuously, whether a device is "listening" or not, so several devices (e.g. televisions) can simply listen in when they are turned on without having to send a special signal to the box.

      Hold on. Will the cable box translate MPEG2 streams received from the cable side to video frames and broadcast those to 802.11g enabled TVs, or will it just broadcast the MPEG2 stream?

      In scenario one - have they done the math on how much bandwidth this will require? Not to mention the cost of upgrading your TV to receive raw video frames over 802.11g?

      In scenario 2 - have they considered the cost of adding the MPEG2 and 802.11g hardware to the TV? What about MPEG2 artifacts if some frames are lost?

      When broadcasting over wireless, you have to take into account the maximum speed of the client with worst signal quality. You can't expect to use 54Mbps modulation if you want the TV at the other end of the house to receive the signal with low packet loss. You can't rely on always being able to use 54Mbps (22Mbps throughput) if you want reliable broadcast to other devices in the household.

      What makes cable gaming different from existing gaming networks is that with existing gaming networks, all processing is done locally on the user's own machine. With cable gaming, the required processing is done by the company's machines. This minimizes the actual amount of bandwidth required to travel along physical cable lines, as well as negates the need for a game processor on the consumer end (i.e. a game console; Xbox, Playstation, etc.). The only additional hardware required on the consumer's end is a minimal amount of Random Access Memory (RAM) onboard the digital cable box that acts as buffer memory to ensure a smooth, seamless gaming experience.

      Sending complete video frames through the cable net is somehow less bandwidth consuming than sending UDP packets containing the state of the game? Even assuming an MPEG2 video stream, I don't buy that without seeing hard numbers. I would also worry a bit about latency.

      The idea to use available bandwidth on the cable to provide new services is intriguing, and should definately be explored. But I think that the engineering needed to make something like this work is a bit higher than what the paper assumes.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    3. Re:Text incase of Slashdotting by jesup · · Score: 2, Informative
      "DSL will continue growing twice as fast as cable modems." - not true (though I like DSL).

      a) You can't "translate the entire cable signal into 802.11g connections and transmit those signals throughout the house." I suspect they meant to say they'd translate a single cable channel into 802.11g. The entire cable signal is circa 700MHz for most systems (and uses 256-QAM for encoding). A single standard-definition channel (digital!) is circa 2-4Mbps, an HD channel is 12-19Mbps.

      b) UDP over 802.11anything is a bad idea for streaming media at high rates. Not that it's impossible, but it's a lot more tricky than it sounds. Lost packets == video glitches. Not to mention issues with neighbor-interference in cities/apts.

      c) Residential phones are RJ-11, not RJ-45. Minor nit, but it shows this isn't very well thought out.

      d) Comcast (using Samsung boxes) is doing a multi-TV DVR trial in Philly this summer with a system that transmits video from the central box with 802.11g - but it sends the 802.11g over the in-house cable line to the box on top of the other TV. Generally, people have TV's where there are cable drops. Not that they wouldn't mind being untethered in the future... Using 802.11g this way avoids a lot of the interference and packet-loss problems without interfering with the cable signals (which are all e) The prime factor in the cable industry: capital investment. The reason high-end digital boxes are only being used for HDTV subs is because they cost (gasp) $300. Comcast (and others) hope to get the cost for simple digital box down to $35-50 in the next two years, and drop all analog transmissions. (See last week's MultiChannel News/Broadband Weekly.) This applies doubly for their idea of gaming, at least if the games are assumed to be classic Xbox-type videogames. Their $325/650 and $20,000,000 system cost is WAY under-speced. The $20M is probably an order of magnitude low for the sort of services they're describing, and perhaps more like 20-40x low. $325 per main box isn't too far off (perhaps $450-500), but you need to acccount for each TV - each will need a 802.11g-enabled settop, which is a minimum of $150 currently (and that's not assuming cameras/speakerphones/etc). Also, installation costs - i.e. truck rolls.

      The cable companies are VERY SLOW to roll out capital-intensive items. (As my company knows well.)

      f) They don't cover the cost/utilization of the downstream/upstream bandwidth (especially for things requiring BW outside the headend, like videophones and even more so video-delivered gaming).

      g) TV's don't make very good videophones. Standalone is far better.

      h) Where's the cost-of-goods? These services don't all appear for free after your $20M investment. Bandwidth, maintenance, Customer Support, etc.

      i) Phone service involves all sorts of capital-intensive (and regulatory) items. Current estimates for VoIP (alone) over cable is that that per-sub-capital-cost is $400-600 depending on various details - not including ongoing costs.

      All that said, the basic idea (deliver more marginal services over the 2-way cable infrastructure) is generally a good one, and even some of the specifics here may be good (though 802.11g isn't good for video). My company is in fact in that business (internet access over cable boxes on the TV), and it's like pulling teeth to get the cable companies to actually roll out.

  3. Re:Impressions... by dnoyeb · · Score: 4, Informative

    I agree, nice to see the thought and work put into this, but their are some obvious issues.

    1st, cable and DLS are equal once within the house. This would not give cable any advantage over DSL.

    2nd, this does not affect those who use Satellite because cable is unwilling to service them, not incapable.

    3rd, security will not exist. Remember, the demand for hacks will skyrocket once you put it into each house. plus its wireless. Thats just asking to be hacked... Cable companies will have to spend MUCHO $$$ to prevent this on a yearly basis. You know, like they did with the cable box upgrades every 2 years, only much more agressively.

    4th, 802.x works nice in a ranch house, but it will not like going through floors. It will loose lots of bandwidth there.

    If you ignored competition, I think this would be an excellent idea, but I do not see it as a competitive one.

  4. Re:Powerpoint? by Disti · · Score: 2, Informative

    OpenOffice Impress will open that document just fine.

  5. Re:Missed bandwidth by a few orders of magnitude by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative
    Uh, Digital CATV uses similar-to-DVD bitrate MPEG2 encoded streams. They are not 30Mbps. They are more like 6Mbps. They still won't fit into 802.11G, but not by the factor that you suggest.

    Incidentally, analog cable channels are 8MHz wide. Not that it's part of this discussion, but DOCSIS cable uses that 8MHz and gets max theoretical peak speeds of 45Mbps. Just for comparison.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. This Isn't New... by ignipotentis · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Moxi Media Center is an old idea. It was designed to use 802.11a. The only difference is these students switched the .a to the .g...

    Why are we supposed to be impressed again?

    --
    Don't waste time... procrastinate now!
  7. Re:Impressions... by Kr3m3Puff · · Score: 2, Informative

    While I can agree with the MPEG decoder (and only certain channels are encoded, vs satallite where are channels are encoded at different rates) the IP address thing is wrong. Essentially every channel is allocated a certain bandwidth on the cable which is then decoded by the receiver. While two way communication can happen, it isn't TCP/IP as we know it.

    So while there is bandwidth there to supply it, how are you going to maintain the bandwidth used for Analog channels, plus existing Digital Cable, plus Digital Phone, broadband Internet and these new services without saturation?

    I don't have specifics on actually what cable can reasonably carry if it wasn't carrying anything else, but I still see 802.11g not adding a whole lot to the mix.

    You also point out something interesting, that TCP/IP again is a cooperative networking solution, with the current incarnation IPv4 not having any native QoS, so not only do you have do drop massive Mbps in each house, but you will have large bandwith on each segment. Current cable technology has everyone going over the same pipe. Sometimes your cable modem gets slow, add in these other "free for all" services and your neighbor down the way watching Porn on 5 TVs knocks off your VoIP service! Fun Fun...

    --
    D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
  8. Re:Impressions... by SJ · · Score: 2, Informative

    Also, 802.11g is overkill for current cable modem speeds (upto 800Mbp/s is what I understand). I am not sure you can get that much more over cable at current cable quality (most houses are RG56 and not even RG8, which is what is recommended).
    You are confusing 802.11g with IEEE1394b. 802.11g only runs at 54Mbs, which while still lower than 1394, it is greater than what cable can provide. (Oh... and 1394 isn't wireless yet.)
  9. 802.11g isn't NEARLY fast enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It speaks of broadcasting channels with UDP whether someone is listening or not. This is impossible. There is over 1gbps of video data alone coming over your cable-TV cable. So that's WAY too much data for 802.11g. 802.11g can only transmit at 27mpbs (each way).

    Never underestimate the data capacity of a cheap coaxial cable.

    This is the typical psuedo-science breakthrough we see far too often on this "news for nerds" site.

    Would it be asking too much for some actual technical editors to filter the articles?

  10. Problem 1 is just the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Read again, they say they would broadcast the channels, whether anyone is listening or not. So your neighbor turning on or off their TV makes no difference. It also means that you cannot use TCP, as you cannot broadcast a point-to-point protocol.

    This solution is unworkable.

  11. Re:Impressions... by LarsG · · Score: 2, Informative

    Now, considering the source states that coaxle bandwidth limitation is at 34mbps. If Wireless-G is rating at 54mbps, this means that the the 34 mbps can easily be incapsulated within the 802.11g connection.

    54Mbps is the fastest possible modulation. To get the real throughput, you also have to take into account stuff like inter-frame pauses, packet header/trailer, etc. The real-world maximum speed is more like 22Mbps when you have good signal strength and there are no hidden nodes, interference or multipath issues.

    Stuff to consider: this presentation stated that different uses will be running on different channels - in 802.11b there were 10 channels. I have not researched 802.11g to this extend, but I'll assume it's the same (if not better.) Each channel will be limited to this 54 mbps and therefore can encapsulate 540 mbps data.

    802.11b can only use 3 non-interfering channels. That is, channel 1 and 2 interfere with each other. Only 1, 6 and 11 can be used at the same time without interfering. .11g is the same.

    --
    If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
  12. Re:Missed bandwidth by a few orders of magnitude by isdnip · · Score: 3, Informative

    The students' proposal was for broadcasting unused, as well as watched, channels over the 802.11g. What you suggest is more sensible, but would require the cable box to act as a smarter server. I was pointing out that the student paper did not address this issue appropriately.

    In North America, channels are 6 Mbps wide; 8 Mbps is European-standard, both video and DOCSIS. Digital Cable takes a 6 Mbps channel, runs QAM in it to get about 20 Mbps, and then feeds about ten MPEG streams through it (bit rate of each can be adjusted depending on content).

    Real cable is typically a mix of analog and digital channels. Digitizing is costly, so putting analog channels onto digital wireless would take some effort.

  13. Video over Wireless? A Plug by ratboy666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    802.11b/g is amazing in its variability. Turn on a microwave in the house, and you're in trounble.

    So, how do you send video over wireless? My employer (ViXS www.vixs.com) has a solution. Jump on over to www.vixs.com and have a look.

    Ratboy

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061