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Why Do Computers Still Crash?

geoff lane asks: "I've used computers for about 30 years and over that time their hardware reliability has improved (but not that much), but their software reliability has remained largely unchanged. Sometimes a company gets it right -- my Psion 3a has never crashed despite being switched on and in use for over five years, but my shiny new Zaurus crashed within a month of purchase (a hard reset losing all data was required to get it running again). Of course, there's no need to mention Microsoft's inability to create a stable system. So, why are modern operating systems still unable to deal with and recover from problems? Is the need for speed preventing the use of reliable software design techniques? Or is modern software just so complex that there is always another unexpected interaction that's not understood and not planned for? Are we using the wrong tools (such as C) which do not provide the facilities necessary to write safe software?" If we were to make computer crashes a thing of the past, what would we have to do, both in our software and in our operating systems, to make this come to pass?

22 of 1,224 comments (clear)

  1. AS LONG AS YOU CAN TEST EVERY STATE... by drink85cent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As I've always have heard with computers you can't prove something works, you can only prove it doesn't work. As long as there are an almost astronomical number of states a computer can be in, you can never test for every possible case.

    1. Re:AS LONG AS YOU CAN TEST EVERY STATE... by innosent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not exactly. Assuming that the hardware is ok, you can prove that a system is reliable for any given finite input (including, most importantly, all possible finite substrings of inputs, however it is not possible to test all possible inputs, since a portion of those are infinite), it's just that doing so in large systems takes enormous amounts of time, and of course, time = money. Take Microsoft, for example. It takes a team years to develop a product like Windows XP, run a few test cases, and fix the major bugs. But just think how long it would take to go through every possible input substring of a given length (and by substring/string I am including non-character inputs [mouse, network, etc]).

      Consider a simple program that inputs 10 short strings of text and does some computations on those strings. Say for example that the system that has only a keyboard as input, that all input functions are guaranteed only to input A-Z (caps only), the space bar, and 0-9 (regex ((A-Z)*(0-9)*)*( )*), not to overflow, and that there are 10 inputs with exactly 10 characters for each input (spaces fill end of string). This means that there are 37 possibilities for each digit, totaling 37^100 unique possible inputs, about 6.61E156 possibilities, each 100 characters. Typing a million characters per second would take 2.094E145 years! Keep in mind that this is an extremely simple system.

      Therefore, it is not possible to test ALL input cases of any nontrivial program, only a few selected cases, which most will agree is far from proving a program correct. Instead, developers should have detailed mathematical descriptions of how a program is to behave at each incremental step, and verify that the program follows those descriptions accurately. Programs can only be proven correct in the same manner that any discrete mathematic concept can be proven correct, with one of the most common methods of a functionality proof being mathematical induction. Based on a few basic assumptions (like that the functions you call work as documented), the rest of the system can be proven by proving the trivial parts and cases first, and then constructing a complete proof based on the trivial parts.

      The problem with this is that a small change can have a big impact on the proof, and nobody actually takes the time to verify that everything still works. Companies don't often spend money on making their software 100% correct, they just need to add the nifty new features that their customers want before their competitors do. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the bugs found in XP can be traced to a "nifty new feature" that broke code that may have been proven correct at some point.

      In other words, the short answer is yes, if you can test every state, you can prove a program correct, but since that's usually impossible, it becomes the developers' responsibility to incrementally prove the system, which is far easier if all functionality is planned ahead of time, but still too time/money consuming for most software companies to bother with. Microsoft doesn't care if your computer crashes, you'll probably still pay them, and as much as I'd like to think otherwise, OSS isn't much different (although it's usually more time than money there).

      --
      --That's the point of being root, you can do anything you want, even if it's stupid.
  2. Human Error by Obscenity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All programs (for the most part) must be written by people. People crash, they're buggy and they dont have a development team working on them. Computers crash because people cant catch that one little fatal error in 10,000 lines of code. Smaller programs are less succeptable to errors and big scary warning messages that make even the most world-hardend geek worried about his files. Yes, it's getting better with more and more people working on something at once. Mozilla (www.mozilla.org) has a feedback option to help them debug, many software companies are including this. But even with that in place, there is always that small human error, that will screw something up.

    --
    OMG OMG OMG WTF OMG WTF BBQ STFU RTFM, OMFG OMG OMG OMG ROFL LMAO OMG WTF STFU ROFLMAO
    1. Re:Human Error by Malcontent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "People crash, they're buggy and they dont have a development team working on them. Computers crash because people cant catch that one little fatal error in 10,000 lines of code. "

      While this statement is true it's also a cop out. In the last twenty years there have been tremendous amount of advances in computer science and languages and yet everybody still programs in C.

      That is the reason why programs crash. Why don't people use languages that make programs more failsafe and make programmers more productive.

      It would be interesting to do a study of the "bugginess" of programs written in python, java, scheme, smalltak, lisp etc. My guess is that programs written in C crash the most.

      Where are all the programs written in scheme or smalltalk or ML?

      Use better languages and crash less.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

  3. It's not the need for speed by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's the need for new features. Every feature that gets added to a piece of software is a chance for a bug to creep in.


    Worse, as the number of features (and hence the amount of code and number of possible execution paths) increases, the ability of the programmer(s) to completely understand how the code works decreases -- so the chances of bugs being introduced doesn't just rise with each feature, it accelerates.


    The moral is: You can have a powerful system, a bug-free system, or an on-time system -- pick any two (at best).

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    1. Re:It's not the need for speed by WasterDave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thank you, at least somebody got it fucking right.

      Software doesn't have to crash, but for a given quantity of development resources there's a fairly simple tradeoff between feature-richness and stability.

      You want reliable? Strip back features left right and centre, design an elegant architecture, then unit test properly.

      Dave (in a ranty mood)

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
  4. Don't forget the hardware... by MightyTribble · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some crashes aren't the fault of the OS. Bad RAM, flaky disk controllers, CPU with floating-point errors (Intel, I'm looking at *you*. Again. *cough* Itanium *cough*)... all can take down an OS desite flawless code.

    That said, some Enterprise-class *NIX (I'm specifically thinking of Solaris, but maybe AIX does this, too) can work around pretty much any hardware failure, given enough hardware to work with and attentive maintainence.

  5. Complexity, my dear Watson by T5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's all about the bits. There are just so many more of them now, and a great deal more pressure in the marketplace to bring ever newer software and hardware to market. Back in the day of the IBM 360 and the VAX, even though we were mesmerized by the capabilities of these machines, they were years and years in the making, debugged much more thoroughly than we can hope for today, and much, much simpler.

    And let's not forget that this was the exclusive realm of the highly trained engineer, not some wannabe type that pervades the current service market. These guys knew these machines inside and out.

  6. Essence of Software Engineering by Zach+Garner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Read "No Silver Bullet: Essence and Accident of Software Engineering" by Brooks. A copy can be found here.

    Software is extremely complex. Developed to handle all possible states is an enormous task. That, combined with market forces for commercial software and constraints on developer time and interest for free software, causes buggy, unreliable software.

  7. Microsoft by eht · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has made an extremely stable OS, it's called Windows 2000, as long as you use MS certified drivers the OS should never crash, individual programs may crash under Windows, but you can hardly blame Microsoft for that. I have had Windows machines with months of uptimes and no problems, went down 8 days ago due to power failure too long for my UPS's to handle, which also took down my FreeBSD machines, uptime is matched for all of them, and will one day again be measured in months.

    Yes I should probably patch some of my Windows machines, but I have my network configured in such a way that for the most part I don't need to worry and you don't have to worry about my network spewing forth slammer or other nasty junk.

  8. Economics? by iso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While it's not the whole story, something definitely has to be said about the fact that while people are willing to pay for features, they're rarely willing to pay more for stability. Quite frankly there's little economic incentive to make software that doesn't crash.

    If your market will put up with the ocassional crash, and never expects software to be bulletproof, why bother putting the effort into stability? Until people start putting their money into the more stable platforms, that's not going to change.

  9. Re:Simple ... by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Insightful


    "However, if I'm trying to download a huge file while opening and closing lots of windows, programming some web pages, uploading them to the web, listening to some tunes, talk to 80 different people on AIM, and enjoying a flash animation at the same time, the computer might crash."

    Was it, or was it not, designed to be used in this way? If it was not, why does the system let you try it?

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  10. For those who are willing to pay... by PseudononymousCoward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The number of bugs is smaller. Think of the systems used by the telcos, or NASA. Are they perfect? No, but they are much, much more stable than Win32, or Mac, or Linux. The reason is simple, the owners demand them to be.

    There are costs associated with fixing bugs and reducing crashes. The more stable an operating system is to be, the more time and money that must be devoted to its design and implementation. PC users are not willing to pay this amount for stability, either in explicit cost, or in hardware restrictions or in trade-offs for other features.

    As Linux evolves over time, its stability will always improve, but it may still never reach the stability of, say, VMS. Why? Because even with the open source model of development, there are still tradeoffs to be made, tradeoffs between new features and stability, mostly. And successive bugs are harder and harder to fix, requiring greater and greater amounts of time. At some point, the community/individual decides that they would rather spend their time going after some lower-hanging fruit.

    Just my $0.02

    Actually, IAAE.

  11. Obligatory anti-MS by cptgrudge · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Of course, there's no need to mention Microsoft's inability to create a stable system.

    What exactly is the purpose behind this? Why was it put in here? People are going to need to grow up if people in "our" circle want to be taken seriously. I've used Windows 2000 and Windows XP both. They crash as much as my Red Hat and Debian boxes do. Never. They are all rock solid.

    I work for a public school system. We have a class at the High School that teaches and certifies for A+ (I know, I know). They have all sorts of problems getting stuff to work and to get a system stable. In Windows and Linux.

    It isn't because they are high schoolers.

    It isn't because they are "just learning".

    It's because they buy really shitty hardware. They look for the best cost, and they get their hardware from some loser manufacturer that has fucked up drivers and horrible quality control.

    Properly maintained boxes with quality hardware in them just don't crash anymore. Programs maybe, but not systems.

    Christ, people, this has been beat to death! Microsoft has a great product for an OS now! Get back to making something better than them instead trying to convince yourself that Microsoft is delusional.

    Mod me Flamebait, I don't care.

    --
    Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
  12. A lesson from history by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back in the Middle Ages, when the Catholic Church wanted a Cathedral built, they would pay a bunch of Freemasons to do it. The Freemasons viewed themselves as creative artisans, and they closely guarded the secrets they used to construct these impressive houses of worship.

    The method they used, however, was less than impressive. Typically, they would start with a general design, and piece together stone and mortar until something collapsed, which happened quite often. Then they would patch the section that collapsed and keep on going until something else fell down, or they finished. Given the level of understanding with regards to Physics and Material Science, those Freemasons has no other choice than to build them this way.

    Now fast forward to the 21st century. The engineering disasters on par with those medieval collapses can be counted on one hand (Tacoma Narrows Bridge and the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse are the only two I can think of). This is directly due to the fact that a civil engineer can determine if a design is structurally sound before they build it.

    Contrast this with modern day software development. We can't even tell if a system is flawed after we build it, let alone before. So software gets written, deployed, and put into the marketplace that has no assurances whatsoever of actually doing what it's supposed to do (hence the 10,000 page EULA).

    You can't have Civil Engineers until you have Physics. And you won't have 100% bulletproof software until you have Software Engineering. And you won't have that until someone can figure out a way to prove that a given peice of software will perform as it's supposed to. JUnit is a step in the right direction, but there's still a long way to go. It's going to take a breakthrough on the order of Newton to make Software Engineering as reliable a discipline as Civil Engineering.

  13. STFP by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Software crashes because: Software is an immature field. Good software takes time. Software is unobvious to business managers who want the job done yesterday.

    Businessmen generally do not understand the internal workings of software. They are in a "big-picture" sort of world where software is but one pesky detail that will be taken care of. A computer crash that causes so many thousands of dollars in damages is no different than a truck crash. There is simply a risk to every element of business. If the risk is relatively low, the big shots don't care about it. Grocery stores in earthquake prone areas continue to place glass jars on the edges of shelves. Sure, there will be an earthquake one day, but it's a calculated part of business risk, and the risk is relatively low (the Earth doesn't shake every five minutes).

    Software bugs are a similar risk. It needs to look like it works. It needs to crash (and lose data) infrequently enough that the software will still sell. The business is not concerned with stamping out software bugs. It is concerned with releasing the software and making money. If the need arises, the business will improve the software and make more money. More often than not, this means adding features and shiny graphics. Fixing bugs is not very important to companies because customers do not pay for bug fixes. By the consumer, bugs are viewed as defects and their fixes should be free. By the company, bugs are viewed as a minor risk and fixing them would cost too much to justify. So you'll reboot once in a while or lose an hour's work once in a while. If it fries your hard disk, well, you should have backed up your data.

    Software is also one of the newest fields of human endeavor. Buildings have been built, ships have sailed and farms were farmed, all for thousands of years. No matter how much progress happens in these fields now, they have come so close to "perfection" that continued improvement serves to lower cost, improve safety and increase convenience. It's not a matter of, "Gee, how can we make buildings that actually stand without falling down three times a week?" It's just a matter of, "How wide, how deep, how tall and what color glass do you want on the outside?" You pay X dollars, wait Y months and voila, there is a building. But programming has been around for how long, 50 years? It's an increasingly important but very immature field.

    Buildings, bridges, ships... they're obvious. Everyone knows that if enough lifeboats aren't put on an unsinkable ship, it'll sink on purpose, just to piss you off. Everyone knows that if a 100 story building is going to stand, it has to take 10 years to build it. Everyone knows that a dam has to be pretty damn strong or it'll break and flood half the countryside. The building, shipyard and dam businesses aren't progressing at light speed. It is easy to justify 10 years for an outrageous building design because people KNOW what is involved. But software... Now that's totally unobvious. Software is an idea. It's abstract. It's a bunch of curse words that look like gobbledygook to the uninitiated. A bunch of "noise" characters on a broken terminal. Something done by a bunch of skinny, pimply faced geeks who got beat up in high school, took the ugly girl to prom and didn't have any friends. Why should a manager bother to care that fst_jejcl_reduce() causes a possible NULL pointer in the outer loop if case 32 is activated, which happens if the previous re-sort encountered two items with similar Amount fields, all of which will take a whole day to find and fix and will only happen, say, 2% of the times this particular feature is invoked by the user, which isn't that often? Why should anybody justify spending 2 years to develop some bulletproof program that can be banged out in 3 months, with bugs? What's the problem? Constructor workers are risking their lives, moving heavy things, sweating all day in the hot sun... While geeks are sitting in offices just punching crap on a keyboard. How difficult could it possibly be? To

  14. Re:C and C++ are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A commonly held notion, but not really well thought through.

    Sloppy programmer accesses through bad pointer in C. OS traps task.

    Sloppy programmer accesses beyond array bounds in MySafeLanguage. Runtime system traps tasks.

    In either case, your program "crashes", and the user isn't going to be any happier if you tell them that it's the "MSL virtual run time environment" that painted the blue screen of death than if it's the "operating system". The crappy program still ate my data.

    The two actual causes, IMO:

    1) People always code on the bounds of manageable complexity. Think about the programs people wrote 25 years ago. Nice as they were at the time, and they were on the bounds of manageble complexity, they have what would now be considered a laughable number of features and capabilities. As tools and processes and programmers get better, you don't get a better version of the same old thing you always had. You get something new and different that's just now become possible.

    2) Users (customers) get what they deserve. I have yet to meet a real customer that will actually wait longer and pay more for a higher quality system. Instead, they'll pay less to the guy that gets there cheaper or sooner. Everyone rants about quality, but they turn around and reward time-to-market and corner-cutting on development. If any significant proportion of users really insisted on quality, they'd get it, and probably at a much higher price. (Some, but not all, embedded development falls into this category.) Instead, they want it now and cheap, and the company that takes longer and cost more simply goes out of business.

  15. Re:Computers don't crash by abirdman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm afraid if a user error causes the program to crash, I've got to call it a software error. It's not that hard to write the error handling handling routines, it's just never in the budget. And the users are invariably able to discover new frontiers of errors the programmer(s) never dreamed of. No matter. If clicking the wrong box, entering the wrong data, plugging in the wrong mouse, or installing the wrong screensaver causes a program to crash it's not the users fault (bless them, for they know not), it's the programmers and design engineers fault.

    Hardware errors are another problem altogether. Luckily, it's usually quick to diagnose, and it's usually cheaper to replace hardware than software. It's great how I've been using Microsoft error reporting for about 6 months now, and it's never been their fault. They must be getting better. \snicker>

    --
    Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
  16. Re:Simple ... by DarkZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was it, or was it not, designed to be used in this way? If it was not, why does the system let you try it?

    Your microwave isn't designed to let you put an AOL CD or a piece of tinfoil in it and turn it into a box-shaped firecracker, but it still lets you try it. So the simple answer would be that it lets you do it because it can't control absolutely everything that it interacts with. A download manager isn't designed to be run at the same time as an MP3 player, AIM, ten browser windows, an IRC client, and downloads in other programs at the same time, but it still lets you try it because it has no control over those programs, no different than the microwave's lack of control over your hand and your AOL CD.

  17. OT: Electric overconsumption by maynard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to leave all sorts of machines running 24/7 in my apartment. Several Suns, a couple PCs running Linux and BSD, an SGI, blah blah blah. I did take care to turn monitors off though. I kept this up until I turned off all my systems (except the mail server) for a two week vacation: I was shocked to discover the next electric bill arrived a good $80 cheaper. I've since cut back to a single machine which I turn off at night. No more crazy uptimes, but honestly - I'll take the money. I wish there was consumer demand for low power destop computing. I guess I'll just have to migrate to a good laptop for the low power option. But you're absolutely right: a few computers can suck up a lot of power, with damaging results to one's electric bill. --M

  18. Re:Computers don't crash by NetCurl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally I don't think not giving the user the option of defining any settings which could cause malfunction to be the answer. The reason? Well it's pretty simple, when set properly those same settings give flexibility, added functionality, and performance (at least one, sometimes two, often all three of the above).

    See, that's the thing. I like Apple's OS because at surface level, you can't get access to those features that could really break things if you screwed with them too much. If you really want to muck around with those settings, they are there and ready to be played with through various means (Terminal -- it's a freaking BSD system, Third-Party, and power-user know-how). I would like to respectfully disagree with your statment and say that by default they don't offer the option of defining settings that may cause malfunction, but in OS X they have left almost complete wiggle-room to in fact screw EVERYTHING up; if you know what you're doing. I think it's more genius than anything...
    --

    It's only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything...

  19. Re:Computers don't crash by digital+photo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would agree. Properly and well written code will gracefully handle runtime errors.

    Translation: Short of the user fubar'ing the program or data files themselves, the program should handle all user input in a graceful way.

    The problem though is that to do this would require quite a bit of extra work.

    Progammers are caught in a situation of getting something ready for market at a time dictated to them by a department which doesn't understand the underlying issues or saying "Screw it" and making the code solid.

    That only describes one way in which the problem is caused.

    The bigger problem is the attitude people have about computers which allows for this kind of shoddy programming. People are, for the most part, okay and even expectant of their computers to crash at some point in time.

    This in turn makes it okay to release bad code which will be "fixed later".

    I say that whenever we get a crash or a problem, we report it to the company and we post it to our websites and to review sites.

    I say that the users should make it a big fat noticable problem to the companies whenever their software breaks.

    why? because it means that whenever someone who's never used the software before searches on Google for that software or software company's name, they will find page after page of complaints, dissuading them from using the software.

    the flip side is, if the software works, post to your sites and review sites. Give the people and companies who produce good software credit when it is due.

    As users and consumers, we should find ways to encourage the producers and companies to produce solid code.

    Solid stable code shouldn't be the exception to the rule.