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Flight Testing Of Burt Rutan's X Prize Entry

evenprime writes "The X Prize website is reporting that Burt Rutan's company Scaled Composites did some flight testing on their SpaceShipOne/White Knight launch platform on May 19, 2003. Next up: drop tests. There's also a nice write-up at the BBC website."

29 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. Armadillo's page recently updated too! by Lawmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1. Re:Armadillo's page recently updated too! by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Am I the only one who wouldn't ride in the black armadillo because of this section:

      The crushable, aluminum nose cone neatly and systematically collapses into itself, decelerating the vehicle to a stop. The capsule then falls on its side to end the mission.

      So let me get this straight. You're going to fire this thing into space and then it's going to land and crush like a beer can? Pass.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Armadillo's page recently updated too! by the_other_one · · Score: 3, Funny
      it operates in a manner which can only be described as "ground breaking."

      IANARS, however, I do believe there are breaking methods that that I would prefer if I was going along for the ride.

      --
      134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
    3. Re:Armadillo's page recently updated too! by RabidOverYou · · Score: 5, Funny

      But ... but ... but ... according to your sig, you're a street walking cheetah, with a heart full of napalm. You're the runaway son of a nuclear A-bomb! Of course you'd do it! Else, you must retire your sig. No, I insist.

    4. Re:Armadillo's page recently updated too! by zaneIO · · Score: 3, Informative

      here is a link to info about it and a link to a video of the tests.

    5. Re:Armadillo's page recently updated too! by kinnell · · Score: 4, Funny
      The crushable, aluminum nose cone neatly and systematically collapses into itself, decelerating the vehicle to a stop. The capsule then falls on its side to end the mission

      This is why I'm rooting for armadillo aerospace - if they win, the history videos of the future will show a fat, cheap looking rocket crashing head first into the ground then falling over. It's about time history got a little comic relief :o)

      --
      If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
  2. The profit is not in underpants. by inertia187 · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Build nifty spacecraft for $20,000,000US
    2. Maybe win $10,000,000US X-Prize
    3. ???
    4. Profit!

    --
    A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    1. Re:The profit is not in underpants. by aiabx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forgot the details:
      3a) Take passengers for $50k rides.
      3b) Licence technology
      3c) Sell space planes for $5m.
      -aiabx

      --
      Just this guy, you know?
  3. Try it yourself by GrubInCan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    X-Plane v7.0beta has both aircraft (apparently Scaled Composites used it for their simulator)

  4. Just Ducky! by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Funny
    "Mommy, what is that duck doing to the other duck?"

    Seriously... you go, Burt - and all the other X-Prize teams, too.

    On behalf of all of us cubicle-bound geeks looking at the stars, may you all show NASA what teams of dedicated engineers can do if given an environment in which... well, an environment in which dedicated engineers can do what dedicated engineers have always done in such an environment.

  5. Big news, but no interest by knobmaker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe I'm just early here, but it astonishes me that no one has posted a comment, except for trolls and ACs.

    It's stuff like this that gives me hope that I'll live long enough to get a trip into space before I die. The government, as it usually does with everything it attempts, seems to have completely screwed up the exploration of space. It's been over 30 years since we sent a human being to another world, for heaven's sake.

    I'm writing in Rutan for President in 2004. At least he's actually built something other than a portfolio.

    1. Re:Big news, but no interest by isorox · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's a sad fact that most slashdotters cry DARWIN at the first wound of anything thats slightly risky. They claim to want to progress in to space, but then when someone tries it, they just laugh. Perhaps its envy.

  6. Space-travel industry. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Funny

    It'll be about private industry until United Spacelines and American Spacelines start losing too much money, and the space-citizens of the United Space-states of Earth have to shell out billions of space-dollars to keep them afloat. I mean, in orbit.

  7. Rutan can do it if anybody can by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative
    Rutan has a very good track record in aircraft design, and can probably bring this off. He's designed many strangely-shaped aircraft, and they all fly well.

    Of course, there's the problem that maybe he can, but nobody else can. This happens. Paul MacReady made human-powered flight work two decades ago. Nobody has done it since. Gregg Williams designed almost all the really small jet aircraft engines - he did his first one in the 1950s, and he designed the engines for cruise missiles, and he's still designing them. One person, Ed Kleinschmidt, designed all the mechanical teletype machines from the 1930s to the last one in the 1970s.

    1. Re:Rutan can do it if anybody can by Sanity · · Score: 4, Funny
      Paul MacReady made human-powered flight work two decades ago. Nobody has done it since. Gregg Williams designed almost all the really small jet aircraft engines - he did his first one in the 1950s, and he designed the engines for cruise missiles, and he's still designing them. One person, Ed Kleinschmidt, designed all the mechanical teletype machines from the 1930s to the last one in the 1970s.
      Clearly all of these people subscribe to the Perl doctrine of job preservation: "If nobody else can figure out how it works - they can't fire you".
  8. Rutan rules! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rutan amazes me.. I mean, he has an interest in aircraft, then goes out and designs builds tons of them, makes a business out of it, sets all sorts of records, and so on. All with sideburns! He rules!

    -J

  9. Re:Who gets prize if they die on landing? by physicsnerd · · Score: 3, Informative
    No, if they are killed they do not win the prize. You have to sucessfully fly to an average height of 100km twice, and the craft must land intact. The prize is only for a pair of round trips. Not a one way.

    Physicsnerd
    _______________
    "Even logic must give way to physics" - Spock

  10. Re:Nitrous Oxide and Rubber? by farnerup · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a hybrid: half rocket engine, half rubber band attached to a propeller.

  11. Yes! Rubber! by Gharlane+of+Eddore · · Score: 5, Informative

    From an article on KMSB-TV This history of space missions has been written with solid- or liquid-fuel rockets. Solid-fuel rockets are simple, reliable and inexpensive, but thrust at only one speed, can't be shut down, and produce toxic exhaust. Liquid-fuel rockets can be throttled to control thrust and turned off and on, but are highly complex and less reliable. Hybrid technology combines the advantages of both types of fuel, but can be made more cheaply and with more environmentally benign materials, said Brad Linenberger, a senior in aerospace and mechanical engineering. "The components themselves are safer, because the solid fuel is basically tire rubber and the liquid fuel is nitrous oxide, which is just laughing gas" liquefied under pressure, Linenberger said. "The stuff they put in solid rockets to keep them burning, you don't want to be inhaling that stuff."

  12. Re:Huge things at stake by Moofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rutan has a better track record than the rest of the competitors, combined.

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  13. Seven minutes in heaven by endquotedotcom · · Score: 3, Funny
    From the BBC article: "SpaceShipOne will start its mission with a climb to 50,000ft under the twin-engined White Knight. SpaceShipOne will then fire its hybrid rocket engine, fuelled by a mixture of nitrous oxide and rubber, to reach the blackness of space.

    "After experiencing weightlessness at the top of its trajectory, the ship will extend its wings and tail and glide back to the runway that it left 90 minutes earlier."

    Okay, so we have a plane with a "spaceship" under it, and we're going to go up real high and then fling it up into what's just barely "space," and watch it fall down. So you'll actually be in "space" for just a few minutes? No orbiting around and trying to see if you can find your house from up there? How much fun is this really, when the majority of your time is spent screaming your head off as you fall back to Earth? Maybe the inflight meal will be really good.

    1. Re:Seven minutes in heaven by Gorgonzola · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hm, you got your insightful points out of moderator ignorance I suppose. Ever heard of this little launch system called Pegasus? There is actually a commercially viable business around that one. It uses a solid fuel rocket that is launched from a refurbished Lockheed Tristar. Look here.

      --
      -- Spelling and grammar errors tend to be a sign of erroneous thinking.
    2. Re:Seven minutes in heaven by Moofie · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to pick nits, but I'm not sure why you think that planes haven't been used as successful launch platforms.

      Most of the X-Planes were air-launched, mostly from B-36 and B-52 bombers. Orbital Sciences' Pegasus rocket is launched from an L-1011 (commercial jet liner).

      The Backfire was a bomber, designed to launch cruise missiles. At one point, I believe that the Backfire was hypothesized to fire the cruise missiles backwards out of the bomb bay. I don't know if this was ever proven operationally, but I have a hard time understanding how it would have been advantageous to do so.

      Some variants of SU-27 can fire short range air to air missiles backwards, but that's a different kettle of fish.

      Anyhow. : )

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  14. Re:X-Prize & Surreality by Moofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Complex design? Airborne launch is well-proven technology. The spacecraft is very cleverly and elegantly designed. The vehicle has enough "cargo" space to carry three people. Or two people and 200lbs of cargo. It carries a lot more than my Miata, and my Miata is a damn useful vehicle. Although I don't want to hold up the Shuttle as a great design, it obviously does fine with unpowered landing. Carrying fuel for re-entry and landing is insanely expensive in terms of weight and vehicle size. Unless there's something mission critical that requires fuel during the landing evolution, you /really/ don't want to waste weight with it.

    What do you base your cost estimates on?

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  15. Re:X-Prize & Surreality by maggard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The pluses to the design are the high-altitude launch (elegant), and the low-speed entry (elegant).
    Agreed.
    The minuses as I see it are the relatively complex design,
    Compared to what? X-33? Personal jetpacks? NCC-X? Sure it could be brute-forced with a big block of steel and a coupla nukes but this whole thing is about design. Indeed this one looks simpler then most of the others once one gets over it not being designed by a T-square.
    lack of cargo space,
    It's not intended to be a tug. Rather it's a demo meeting the X-Pride criteria put together privately in two years. Pull out the seats if you want luggage. Besides, where would it bring cargo to?
    cost,
    Cheaper then most anything else. Heck, privately financed at that.
    unpowered landing.
    This is the beta version. Ruttan's got a long history with aircraft including unpowered or marginally-powered ones, I'm sure it'll land fine, seems to have worked well for the 99 ton SST.
    Oh, and the fact that it is very, very ugly.
    Oh, well yeah, that it doesn't jibe with your sense of aesthetics means it hasn't a chance. Howzabout you post your photo and the rest of us can predict your odds of success?
    A similar re-entry vehicle, but larger with powered maneuverability on re-entry,
    Why? 'Cause you want a commercial passenger service on the 1st flight? You've got some bias against unpowered landings?
    with a high-altitude balloon as a "first stage" would rock.
    Why? Kewler? I think the first flight succeeding would rock, not your backseat redesigning.
    And be cheaper.
    How? Helium costs y'know. And that balloon & helium wouldn't be recoverable. Plus the first meter off the ground under a big balloon is really hazardous, a heck of a lot more then a glider landing.

    Besides, the White Night is also the trainer for the spacecraft. Yep, you heard me, they load a profile on computer in the WN and it flies the same as the spacecraft! Double duty saving lots of money.

    I'm not really sure how huge a balloon (hydrogen or helium) would have to be to drag something that big to the requisite altitude, especially if you intended to go beyond 100km.
    Big. The math isn't that hard for a rough but trust me, big. and expensive. And non-reusable. And a hazard afterwords.
    The second stage would be heavier, unless you had a new fuel or more efficient use of the fuel.
    Yeah, well now that you've pretty much trashed all the other engineering now you want, what, super rockets? Sure, we'll just use the ones off your Voltron doll...

    How about just come out with it and admit you want Star Trek teleporters, forget this nasty uncomfortable dangerous test vehicle stuff? Hell I bet the thing doesn't even have in-flight service with a decent bar cart!

    Frankly you come off as the the exact sort of useless US holiday poster you mention. Lots of inane second guessing, apparently no homework before reading one article, coming up with ridiculous requirements: Cargo? For a test vehicle? Meeting X-Prize criteria? Have you EVER been around ANY sort of engineering project?

    Score you -3 for silly whiner.

    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
  16. More photos at Pournelle's web site by chroma · · Score: 4, Informative

    Jerry Pournelle posted some more photos on his web site a couple days ago: http://jerrypournelle.com/view/view258.html#SS1

    --

    Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
  17. Re:Nitrous Oxide and Rubber? by Gorobei · · Score: 3, Informative

    um, what do you think solid rocket fuel (i.e. the stuff used in the space shuttle's booster) is? It's basically rubber with an oxider and some metal powders.

    The stuff that reacts with the oxygen in most of these rocket engines is a hydrocarbon: rubber, plastics, asphalt, kerosene, etc.

  18. President, no thanks by Julian+Morrison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My only disagreement is with "Rutan for president". It's an insult to this great man to lump him in with an organization, government, whose whole existence is predicated on force and which can only fund itself by theft.

    To the contrary it's the efforts of Mr Rutan and others like him which will finally put our species out of the reach of government.

  19. Re:I don't think so, either. by Moofie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What happens if the wings break off?

    It's always possible to have a mission-failure point in a design. Good engineers identify those points, and design redundancies and fail-safes. That's why we pay engineers lots of money.

    I hope. Anybody want to hire me? : )

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!