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Munich Spurns Steve Ballmer's Software Rebates
Kurt Pfeifle writes "Steve Ballmer's recent trip to Munich to offer up to
90% rebates for the Microsoft Software Assurance and
Licenses was in vain. The ruling party of Germans biggest city and self-proclaimed 'technology capital' now decided
to migrate 14.000 workstations to Linux and an OSS
office suite. A study comparing the alternatives had
assigned 6218 (out of 10.000) points to Linux/OSS,
while the MS Windows platform only scored 5293. Babelfish translation of the latest newsticker story."
Anyone want to do the math on this one?
If we assume Linux never existed, and therefore the 90% cut price offer never made, making Munich pay full whack for 14,000 copies of Windows, how much would this cost (on this scale - obviously i doubt they would pay the full ~$300 permachine?)
Or put more directly... how much has this shaved off the MS bottom line for this financial quarter? If anyone knows what the purchase rate for both WINDOWS and OFFICE on this scale... please... let us know the math!
-Nex
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Is there anyone out there who mantains a list of countries, cities, companies, &c who have made the move to Linux? If not...well, it would be useful for making Open Source pitches to prospective switch-ers in government, business, and the like. To be sure, Munich isn't alone, but how much company does the city have? I imagine something like one of those push-pin maps, sorted by distro, perhaps, and by the size of the switch (citywide, countrywide, corporate). Would be neat. Does it exist?
Actually, the other possibility is that they are looking at the over-all PR picture and figure that the loss in profits is worth not getting the bad PR of having a whole nation convert over to OSS. In which case it could be looked at as a great deal from the Munich government's prospective because they could always make the switch to Linux later if MS starts trying to tie them down.
I think it shows even more strongly the wisdom of the Munich government in their decision to take government software out of the hands of a proprietary company.
Rules of Conduct:
#1 - The DM is always right.
#2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
The ruling SPD-party does not have a majority in there, but it should not be a big problem to get enough votes from other parties.
Rainer
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Why did they turn down that? Seems like a good deal to me, Linux or no Linux in the equation.
Trolls dont like to be Flamebait, because they burn so well. Protect our Troll heritage!
First LinuxTag issues SCO with a cease or desist order, and now this. Godspeed you! Germans.
Does anyone know for sure which office suite they are using? I'm guessing OpenOffice (since in one place Babelfish calls it "Open Source Office". But it's never stated.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Well, anything that stops Balmer dancing about like a happy, sweaty monkey sounds good to me. I'm only surprised Windows scored so highly!
;-)
As an aside, we use Star Office at work on about half the Windows machines, but the people using it do seem to be envious of the staff with MS Office installed. Problems with printing multi-page spreadsheets/images, problems opening files etc, and lack of speed seem the biggest problems.
Although, since the sales/service people are still mostly using PIIs with 64-128MB of RAM, it's little wonder. I recently built OpenOffice on my Gentoo box to see how it compared, and it does seem a lot faster, even though my Gentoo machine has a slower CPU (Athlon 1.4ghz) than my office machine (2.4ghz P4 - although the office machine has a shit SiS onboard graphic chipset).
I doubt the management would like all the PCs building OO from source for 3 days though
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Microsoft has actually learned a lot over the past decade; particularly in the area or recurring revenue streams.
At this point a significant portion of the company revenues are derived from subscription services. Even if they waive all future upgrade license fees, they still have support contracts, MSDN and other subscriptions to services many large organizations will rerquire. It'll be vary interestingto see what Balmer is willing to offer to get this contract/deployment. There has got to be a point below which they will refuse to go. 'Under no circumstances, loose to linux' must have a limit. I just wonder where it actually is.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
you joke, but blow-hard Balmer sold stock recently.
probably just co-incidence. I mean if it wasnt he'd be insider trading and that would be illegal. And nobody in Microsoft management would ever do anything illegal would they?
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
Didn't this guy just sell 10% of his stock in the company. Bet he knew it was going to break this way weeks ago. Insider trading anyone?
as the beginning of the end for MS...
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
Gazillions to develop? Really?
Let's see your pay-stubs.
Well think about it. How much do you value the time of the programmers working on the code? How much does it cost to have all the equipment necassary to work on linux (mirrors, bandwith, compiling machines, etc, etc). Linux (and OS) is not *free* software, it does cost something but the cost is just not factored into the price since the work is voluntary - in most cases.
I have no idea what Linux, in general, costs if you factored in time, bandiwth, etc but I would not be suprised to see it in the tens of millions.
Does anyone have a link to the criteria used between the two solutions? Although a score was provided, I would be interested to see how Linux scored in each of the areas.
It's pitty, because it finally improved (not perfected though) its operating system that can be considered stable now. But, its too late for most of the people I know. I can tell that ALL science related machines (PCs) we have today use Linux instead of Windows both here in our department and in the part of the Los Alamos National lab. I know, and I'm proud that I was one of the few who started using it, and probably had some effect on this move.
On the other hand Linux is not suitable for everything. I need a decent/mature interface and a machine which requires little maintanence at home, at which point I picked MacOS X instead of Microsoft because of the past experience. Which works pretty well for what it's supposed to do and more... So, again Microsoft lost one more individual as a customer. That's the primary term for Microsoft, instead of the user.
Compatition is good. Now, they improved their products significantly (we must be fair!), and they're trying to reduce their cost, at least, the initial cost. That's also an improvement. Let's be naive and wish that it's not a trick to tie the costomers to rip them later. Actually, that's exactly the pshycological behaviour of most people when the Microsoft is involved. We do NOT trust them anymore...
I do not wish that Microsoft disappears forever, but just wish that it can understand what they did wrong in the past, and try to repair the damage they did. However, it does not seem what is happening here.
Steve Ballmer came a few weeks ago in Spain in order to prevent a town switching to GNU/Linux. :
:0 9cd scdiemp_10&type=Tes&anchor=cdsemp&d_date=20030 509 :. htm l
According to the news, Microsoft promises
* Gift of software for 25 millions of Euros (nearly the same in dollars)
* Investment of 5 millions of Euros for educational projects
* Possibility to downloading a software to translate Windows XP into Catalan (a spanish dialect)
* And somme others stuffs.
Better than the German discount, isn't it ? The deal is not already done, but it shows that Microsoft can go very far to keep its monopoly. The link, in Spanish (sorry, I don't know Spanish language)
http://www.5dias.com/articulo.html?xref=200305
Another link from Wired
http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,58764,00
A breath of freedom in a world owned by Microsoft.
If this goes through I'm going on vacation to Munich later this summer...maybe rent a nice bike (BMW F650?) and bask in the freedom. Sounds like fun.
Great job, Munich. I know OpenOffice has it's share of problems (it really isn't all that compatible with Word documents), and there will be some hiccups, but just seeing a government stand up for freedom is a breathtaking thing in these sad times.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
so what is it when the american government favours american firms over foreign firms for contracts or decides to buy american-made stuff for all their needs? even if this was not a technical decision, how would this be different?
They "could" actually release "microsoft office" for linux. That would be an idea!
Seriously... while it is a comercial product, it is one that is actually *used* by a great many people. What better way from profiting from the free software movement then actually releasing comercial products for it. Rather then offering a discount of 90%... offer them a product they will buy.
Assuming the price is the same... city saves money on operating system, but doesn't have to spend money on migrating documents.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Exactly what is the scoring system? Do you have any links to how those points are counted?
I have no idea what Linux, in general, costs if you factored in time, bandiwth, etc but I would not be suprised to see it in the tens of millions.
Oh, much more than that! See this article for details...
Al.The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
A major reason given in countries outside the US is the advancement of a local software industry.
The first country within an economic zone to switch to make Linux the preferred government business platform will probably be the first to develop Linux applications required within the zone. Germans are unlikely to develop applications for a South American country and vice versa.
Most important, the US is least likely to develop Linux applications for use in countries outside the US. That means that a local preference for Linux gives the local software industry a competitive advantage.
Produce for the US, then for the rest of the world is built into nearly all intellectual property marketing strategies. On the one hand, the US expects that the world will all speak American, but on the other, US companies want to control the release of IP outside the US separately from the US release. For DVD this was hardwired, the same is true for software as well.
All programmers should welcome signficant Linux development. Even if you only know Microsoft, the demand for programmers for Linux projects will make the pool of MS Windows programmers smaller increasing your probability of keeping a job.
I agree with you about having to mean it but I am confident that M$ would immediately jump and offer discounts if they ever heard company X say we'll do feasibility and cost study on Linux. M$ would offer discounts just not to have the study done. Now companies/governments have some leverage where as before they'd always tell you "Screw you, You'll take what we give and like it." Take the changes they made to their license policy a year or so ago. They made a killing at the expense of their customers/users. I don't think they can low ball people like that anymore. No wonder why they are supporting SCO.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
I'm all for it and hurray for Germany. It is great for Germany to go SuSE. I would like to see France go for Mandrake, and the US (never happen, especially with GW Crackheaddrunk Bush in office) go Redhat. Why? To push money into native software companies that adhere to open standards and at the same time drives innovation (unlike certain closed source, monolithic monopolies that I wont mention).
Germany pays money that helps keep computer expertise (programming, administration) local and at the same time helps an international company (IBM) that helps world trade (and the USA). If France went Mandrake, the same thing accrues to them. China goes Redflag Linux, India goes...well with whatever as it doesn't really matter because if any country goes linux, it serves to keep computer expertise local and fuels innovation globally.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
They "could" actually release "microsoft office" for linux. That would be an idea!
/. headline (and the next one a day later :): Linus prophecy fulfilled as Gates loses face over Linux Office.
No it won't and for a simple reason: more than anything else, Bill Gates likes to win. The money is incidental. Yes I am being entirely serious. Go and read Accidental Empires by Robert X Cringlely or Big Blues by Paul Carroll or any other detailed treatise of the early (and subsequent) days of the PC. The overriding impression of Gates is that he wants to win. It's a philosophy that permates the organisation from the top down. Why do you think Microsoft Account directors are being given millions in discounts and orders to "under NO circumstances lose to Linux"? Surely that money would be better spent in the medium term in other ways? But seen in the context of "winning the business at all costs" it makes perfect sense.
Here's the telling quote and you can be really really sure that Gates has read it and knows it:
"If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won" - Linus Torvalds. Source here
This is a lovely quote from Linus and I'm sure he knew exactly what he was saying by putting it in terms of the "win-lose" mentality of Microsoft.
Office for Linux would be a huge loss of face. Can you imagine the
The IT press would be all over it.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
The difference is that OpenOffice.org is Free Software. You can download the program from the Internet. The city of Munich could even make money selling install CDs.
Thier battle-cry is that it "has the best debugging and dev tools I've ever used". IMHO, this is a joke. Most of the developers I know who depend on those kinds of tools can't code their way out of a wet paper sack. Maybe it's different outside of the J2EE world, but within I'm always leery of those who are dependent on dev/debugging tools...
In the end, the very thing that makes MS popular with so many developers (a trained monkey can use it) may be their downfall. Those same "trained monkeys" struggle with complex issues that require a greater understanding of technology.
That may be a "flamebait" comment, but it's what I've seen...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
You don't have to go those lengths. Here is what you do. I mean this, this actually works.
Install a PC in the office of the CIO that's running linux or freebsd. Set a screen that shows a penguin or something like that. Install openoffice, set up a handful of programs like mozilla, a jabber client, and make their icons prominent on the destop.
Also install two or three linux servers in the server room. They don't have to be doing anything but it would be great idea to lable them "postgres server" and "Mail Server".
When the time comes to negotiate the new contract the sales rep will notice the servers (they are trained to look for them) and ask about it. At this point the CIO (and not anybody else) says "We are doing some preliminary analysis about the suitablity of a linux desktop and some servers". when the sales drone asks how it's going just say "it's too early to tell but so far it looks pretty good, Hey let's go to the server room and let me show you that new exchange server we installed".
Bingo!. After touring the server room your company will be offered a substantial discount on your software licenses. The bigger you are the bigger the discount.
Paying retail for MS licenses is like paying the sticker price for a car. Only the most stupid idiot CIO will do such a moronic thing.
War is necrophilia.
It is a little naive to assume that a city government (or any large group) would switch to Linux simply because it is "better" or "cheaper". There is only one rule to understand politics and business: follow the money. In this case, and I believe it's the same in many "switches" to Linux, we are seeing Linux/OSS used as a trojan horse by interests that just happen to be competing with Microsoft.
Personally I admire IBM for having seen in 1999 that Linux aand OSS was their best weapon against their biggest enemy, namely Microsoft. Remember, this is the company that thought OS/2 would beat Windows... It has taken them four years, but now it is starting to pay off.
Expect IBM to downsize their Linux/OSS sales pitch once they have the formula working.
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