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San Mehat On Web Services & .Net

Posted by Hemos on from the looking-down-the-road dept.

A reader writes: "There's an interview with San Mehat in regards to .Net & Webservices. He has some interesting comments about what will work and what won't work, and where things are going." San is well known for his Netwinder work, as well as being a good DJ. And, in the interest of full disclosure, San does work for VA Software, the parent company of OSDN, as is DevChannel.

15 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. Make .NET Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think it would benefit Microsoft if they made the framework for .NET open source. The dedication and expertise of the Open Source developer community would greatly enhance the reputation of .NET, leading to wider global deployment.

    1. Re:Make .NET Open Source by alext · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That rather depends on what your definition of is is.

      At the moment, there is no Windows Forms, Web Forms or ADO.NET for Mono. Whether MS will allow there to be in due course is a very interesting question.

      Personally, I shall be taking great care to ensure that this remains of academic interest only.

    2. Re:Make .NET Open Source by JayateMo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, MS has never used patents to stifle other projects, even OSS ones it really hates?
      Well, given the chance THEY WILL!! I tell you what, they will do _anything_ they can to stifle competition. They will even have ppl sending BS to /.
      Yours

    3. Re:Make .NET Open Source by mingot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well I think he meant stable winforms, ADO.net, ASP.net api's. It is progressing but its not here yet on Mono at the same level as Windows.

      I never said it had Winforms. I said it had ASP.NET and ADO.NET. And that's all I said in direct rebuttal to the person who said they were non-existant.

      I also did not comment on MS world domination, the state of the ECMA standard, or Patent issues.

  2. My problem with .NET by Bame+Flait · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Is that Visual Studio eats a monstrous one. It's really hard to develop (in VB.NET - ack - not my choice) on an IDE that is buggier than an ant farm. Every time I build it's basically 50/50 whether or not the compiler is going to start throwing spurrious exceptions.

    Give me Java, or give me death.

    1. Re:My problem with .NET by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thats not been my experience. Its far more stable than its predecessor for me with C++ and C#, esp as the workspace gets bigger.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:My problem with .NET by enkafan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You could use notepad and the .NET framework SDK no problem. And I would give VS.NET 2003 a shot. It's only like twenty bucks if you own VS.NET 2002, and it performs much better.

      That being said, I've been working with VS.NET 2002 since beta 2 and have never seen it throw an exception at me. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've got some faulty hardware or you've hosed your IIS settings (very easy to do).

      And I can't believe you mention hating a crappy IDE, and loving Java in the same breath. Java has had the worst collection of IDEs EVER. Notepad and command line was the only way to be productive.

    3. Re:My problem with .NET by KindAloysiusX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's good to hear that some people in this discussion really like Visual Studio .NET. Not everybody though! I work in the VS.NET team and we are VERY interested in hearing your feedback, good and bad - particularly on the latest VS.NET 2003. What features do you most like and what do you most dislike? Bothered by any bugs? I can check to see if they have already been fixed in the current builds of the version under development, if you can send me sufficient information to reproduce them myself. My responsibilities include parts of the user interface and the VB/C# project and build system, but I'm interested in any feedback - I'll pass it on to the right people and I will make sure it is taken seriously. My email is danmose@microsoft.removethis.com ...

  3. Used it already by RiverTonic · · Score: 0, Interesting
    I've used some existing webservices on the net for some time now, and it's not that special.
    Microsoft pushes it all a little bit too much. It's really not worth it.

    --
    This is RiverTonic's sig.
  4. Quite Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .NET isn't that bad and VS.NET isn't that bad. That being said...I'd rather not use VS.NET. I've never been comfortable with it to be honest. ASP.NET has made my web stuff so much easier it isn't even funny. I used to be doing PHP stuff and then tried ASP 3.0. I never really liked either of them...I'm kind of excited to see where this stuff goes. And as for the post on VS.NET being buggy...it's not.

  5. Alternatives? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do you mean alternatives like CORBA, or like REST? REST to me seems the proper way to go about web services for 99% of web services people are building. Most people are doing simple calls... the only trick that remains (and is evidenced in the interview) is a simple means of creating objects that represent web service calls and results, to make working with the calls more natural in the OO language that most corporations are using right now. I'm hoping a simple mapping layer on top of a pull parse is a good answer - I'm trying out JiBX for that although it's still rather beta.

    In theory with a good mapper to and from the XML should alleviate the collection problem they talked about in the article by naturally generating good XML for Maps and Lists, and converting back just as easily.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  6. Re:SOAP doesn't do much, but watch it scale by e2d2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But at the same time it's not so easy to pass a serialized type from one system to another without rolling your own solution. Int and String will have no problem but what happens when you try to pass a custom collection type that derives from a hashtable in .net to a j2ee system.

    I agree with what he said about it not being spec'd out but I also agree with you in saying it should be left out of the SOAP specs. I think that 3rd party software similiar to Borland's Janeva will come into play when interoperating between two different systems. But a few more complex types in SOAP would be nice.

  7. Some minor correction and some questions by master_p · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But, we live in a world where STL is a normal thing. If you're a C++ or Java programmer or any kind of an object-oriented programmer, you must have some semblance of containers

    I don't think .net has generics yet.

    The questions: Mono is the .net runtime/compiler/interpreter for C# (yet). But what about the proprietary code ? the windows forms etc ? All the .net apps that have a MS-based gui will not be allowed to run in mono. Will they ? And how will mono handle those Win32 calls ? Maybe through wine ?

  8. Re:SOAP doesn't do much, but watch it scale by gUmbi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've always found that SOAP had all the markings of a specification developed by a committee that want to make sure that everything made it in to the first draft. Personally, I prefer XML RPC : http://www.xmlrpc.com/

    Jason.

  9. Re:He seems to be confused as to what SOAP is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Indeed, I'm working on a major info integration effort spearheaded by GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and others revolving around credit apps. The core of it is just as you describe in that SOAP is being used simply as an envelope. An extensive schema has been developed for the payload using bits from W3C, the Open Applications Group and Standards for Technology in Automotive Retail.