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Ximian's Back
An anonymous reader writes "Joe Barr at LinuxWorld has a hands-on look at the new Ximian desktop and he seems to like it a lot.
The story is currently running on Linuxworld.com"
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From the Conclusion of the article, it appears that the reviewer actually liked Ximian desktop. But unfortunately, he hardly gives any solid examples of why it is actually good or usable. ... like My computer, trashcan etc. cannot be deleted. Download behaviour of Galeon has changed etc.
The article is like, OK It is customisable, from GUI-apps that too (Standard with any desktop I would assume),detected all my Icons from previous gnome, looks good(?) . Only solid piece of info I got that is that it adds a program bar to the top of the desktop along with the default start menu at the bottom. And yes, most of the old bugs apparently have been fixed.
But in the "bad and ugly" section the reviewer gives real examples
Unfortunately the conclusion of the article (ximian is goog) goes barely supported. though the author does call it a "first look"
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
ximian desktop /is/ gnome .. just made all pretty like. And you don't get those games with it.. the article said that those games were previously installed.. yet ximian desktop was smart enough to add them to its menu.
I have to admit that I might be a strange case, since I like to have ~10 windows open at the same time...
10? I have 26 at this moment in time. I also have 5 virtual desktops, so very few of my windows are covered by others. A taskbar or alt-tab is never required. Switching desktops is a 2 keystoke affair, and if you're sensible you'll keep similar apps together on the same desktop. For example I always have 2 mozilla windows open, side by side, on desktop 2. It never has anything else there. It's one reason I find Windows so difficult to use. Those few virtual desktop packages that are available for it just don't work anywhere near as well as Window Maker.
Parent: I think he was wanting to know should he download it directly from Ximian, as they package it, or use apt-get to pull it down and install it.
As for the Grand-parent: I haven't used thier desktop, but I have used other software from them. They have their own package distribution system that seems to work quite well, though I haven't used it under Debian.
I'm completely Windows Free, even at work. Admittedly, using the Connector is a little slower than if the damn thing just spoke MAPI (why doesn't it again?), but if you've got a copy of Outlook Web Access running, it's great! I can do everything I need to.
On the plus side, over MAPI, I can at least get at work emails from home, which I couldn't directly do if I was running Outlook, since Outlook supports MAPI but *not* the webdav interface.
Now... if I could only find where they're hiding the Connector for Evolution 1.3.92rc1 !!!
mindslip
What does this actually do that Gnome or KDE don't?
...
What do you mean? The question is a non-sequitor. The Ximian Desktop is Gnome. Ximian was founded by the leader of the Gnome project to market Gnome.
this doesn't seem to add anything
Why should it? It's a free download. You can pay for support, and for some non-free addons (like the Exchange Connector), but basically, the Ximian Desktop is the Gnome folks' own distribution of Gnome, no more, no less.
This review is pants, it just talks about features of GNOME 2.
However, I've seen Michael Meek's OpenOffice slides and XD2 has:
* A rocking OpenOffice.org which blends totally with GNOME 2
* printers:/// so that managing print queues can be done in Nautilus
* a CUPS admin tool which isn't a web page
* tight integration with network sharing (I've heard rumours about nfs:/// working again, but most sources say that XD2 is Samba biased)
http://ximian.com/products/desktop/ just came up, but the server is kinda slashdotted atm...
Come on guys! How hard is it to make a simple install script for Linux/Unix systems that don't run RPM? With all the grandeur pumped into 'Red Carpet', you can't take a couple of days to make a shell script that'll install Ximian from tarballs?
- Chris Z. Wintrowski -
[ Site ]
Period. I must admit that the biggest problem I when explaining to people that I use GNU/Linux is `what does it look like'. I use some really strange WMs and mostly console tools, so my setup doesn't 'look' like the normal setup. It seems from your post that you think we need a unified look for Free Software to get accepted. Not true. Not even important.
Another problem for some people is the distinction that the Unix-like WMs and desktops make between the rest of the OS and the graphical interface. Network settings are not part of the WM. Desktop solutions try to do everything in one, but the Free Software world is more about small tools working well together well.
What I'm trying to say is that you should be more pissed at windows for making you think that there should be a standard place to change stuff. Not all cars have the indicator level in the same place (some right, some left). I find out when I get into the car where all the controls are, make a few mistakes and then adapt. That is what people still do a lot better than machines.
Languages aren't inherently fast -- implementations are efficient
.. is going to be Evolution 1.4 and Ximian's OpenOffice.org for GTK2.
/.'d, but by all accounts this could be out very very soon. And even if you don't like the desktop, Evolution 1.4 and OO.o Ximian Edition will knock your socks off.
That, coupled with GIMP 1.3 (the screenshots only appear to show GTK1 GIMP 1.2), will mean that GNOME (specifically GTK2) has all the productivity applications to finally get a consistent look across everything, something Linux has not been able to do until now.
Unlike KDE, they are not all being provided by the KDE project - Mozilla, for example, is GTK2 native now.
The real coup for Ximian will be getting GTK2 into OO.o - if they can do this, then the last minor inconsistencies will only be in applications like mplayer, realplay and xmms, and we've all expected media players to look different for years.
(Though, you could go get RhythmBox..)
Ximian's starting to look
After beating through the slasdotting, Ximian Desktop 2 will be released June 9, 2003
A OO.o screenshot
Heres the announcement...
Ximian Announces Ximian Desktop 2 to Provide Complete Enterprise Desktop for Linux
Major Upgrade Offers Full Application Suite, Enhanced Usability and Robust Windows Interoperability to Enable Enterprise Adoption
BOSTON, MA -- June 2, 2003: Ximian, Inc., the leading provider of desktop and server solutions enabling enterprise Linux adoption, today announced Ximian® Desktop 2, a major new version of its popular Linux desktop software installed by over 1,500,000 users worldwide. Ximian Desktop 2 provides a complete productivity application suite, breakthrough usability features, and seamless Windows interoperability to enable organizations to easily and affordably deploy Linux desktops in mixed Windows/Linux environments. Innovations include an intuitive interface, the Ximian Edition of OpenOffice.org for Microsoft Office file-compatible documents, one-click Windows network navigation and easy printer setup to reduce training and support costs. Ximian will demonstrate Ximian Desktop 2 publicly at the Jupiter Media Enterprise Linux Forum in Santa Clara, Calif. on June 5 and 6. The product will be available for purchase and electronic installation the week of June 9.
"Our goal with Ximian Desktop 2 has been to enable enterprise customers to cost-effectively adopt and support Linux desktops," said Nat Friedman, co-founder and vice president of product development at Ximian. "Ximian Desktop 2 is the culmination of direct feedback from strategic design partners including over 25 enterprise customers and business partners worldwide. The result is an enterprise-ready Linux desktop that is easy to use, supports existing Windows infrastructure, and is affordable to manage."
"Siemens Business Services is seeing increasing interest from customers for Linux desktop solutions, especially in the public sector," said Duncan McNutt, senior project manager at Siemens Business Services in Germany. "Our evaluations show that Ximian Desktop 2 can be a great fit for Linux workstation deployments. Its familiar interface for Windows users, full application suite, integration with Windows environments and centralized management through Red Carpet(TM) Enterprise(TM) can help reduce support costs for enterprise customers."
Ximian Edition of OpenOffice.org Highlights Application Suite
Based on the open source GNOME 2.2 project, Ximian Desktop 2 delivers a tightly integrated suite of applications with robust support for Windows file formats, networks and standards. It starts with the Ximian Edition of OpenOffice.org, a significantly enhanced version of the open source productivity suite, which lets users create, edit and save Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint 97/2000/XP documents, spreadsheets and presentations. Ximian improvements to OpenOffice.org include default Microsoft Office file formats, 800 new icons, a host of user interface enhancements, GNOME desktop theme and font consistency, and the ability to seamlessly browse, open and save files on remote file systems.
Ximian Desktop 2 also features Ximian Evolution(TM) 1.4, the new version of the award-winning email and personal information management application that can optionally be integrated with Microsoft Exchange 2000 and other messaging and collaboration servers (see related release, "Ximian Announces New 1.4 Versions of Ximian Evolution, Connector for Microsoft Exchange..."). It also includes the Mozilla-based Galeon web browser along with Microsoft Windows metric compatible fonts and common browser plug-ins to provide access to and faithful rendering of virtually all web content. Ximian Desktop 2 additionally provides built-in Linux software updating with the new Red Carpet 2.0 application.
Other capabilities include:
* drag and drop CD burning
* buil
You can always remove a panel and set it up however you want.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Basically, I suggest we wait for some real reviews.
Most people these days are running on 1024x768 according to hits on my (computer related) website and on my friends bird watching web site.
on mine its 40% for 1024x768 and 6% for 800x600
Firstly, it's clear that the visual style is a clean and stylish one. It's a GTK2 theme that doesn't suck, so congratulations to them for that.
The OpenOffice screenshots are nice, but simply having a good icon theme and making everything white (it follows the colours of the theme) didn't make as much of an improvement as I thought it would. Still, nice to see it better integrated. I think OO can use Gnome VFS now also.
The rest just smells of polish - what else did you expect from Ximian though?
OK. So reading the FAQ, I'm left wondering:
1) Is it really worth basically $100? Well, that would depend A LOT for me on how good Red Carpet Express it. I tried RC a few days ago, it's OK, but it has very little software available on it. Apt is good. They would have to work hard to beat even FreshRPMs, but if they did then yes, I think I'd pay for it, especially if they continue to improve the desktop to keep pace with GNOME, their own addons/extras etc as the year progressed.
2) Who are they selling this to? Corporate desktop users will probably want to have it all from one place, the distro and the desktop tied together. Are companies going to pay once for a distro, then again for a desktop? OTOH I'm not sure there's a big market for XD Pro in the home user market either. Extra commerical addons are nice, but ... not that nice.
Fascinating though. And out in only a week! I can't wait.
mandrake has urpmi
debian has apt-get
either one deals with dependencies automatically for you.
You must have missed a few years of Red Hat releases. There are quite a few GUI-config tools available. Try looking in Applications->System Settings or typing: redhat[TAB] for a listing of them.
I've had first time users set up a box without using the command line once.
Althoug most people seem to be happier with a mix of using command line and GUIs. Command line is _so_ much faster, mopst of the time.
Second that.
I've bought two new computers (one a dell, the other hp) in the past 18 months. They both booted directly int 1024x768.
This report is a bit bogus, as he totally fails to point out any of the advantages of Ximian over the standard RH 8 / 9 desktop. Both use Gnome 2.x, and many of the features of Gnome 2.x are common to both. In the article he lists numerous "advantages" or features which he liked, but all of them are either standard to all Gnome 2.x desktops and are available with the RH bluecurve desktop or they are specific to applications like FileRoller, Galeon or Evolution which are independent of the desktop and also available under RH.
All the system-config utilities he mentions are available in redhat packages ( in fact I wonder if this author isn't just confused as to what parts of his desktop came from whom ). The only real advantage he's mentioned is the ability to use a GUI to customize the programs menus - which is one major flaw in RH 8. Other than that, there's nothing in this article to persuade me that Ximian is superior to bluecurve. Not saying that I won't give it a try myself, but this article is a bit of a red herring.
There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
The break down is
1024x768 - 40.16%
1280x1024 - 28.41%
1600x1200 - 11.22%
1152x864 - 8.03%
800x600 - 6.61%
Other - 5.31%
640x480 - 0.23%
So now you know.
This is correct.
Theoretically you can speak MAPI if you have access to MAPI.DLL, which is part of Windows, and so not having that is sort of the point.
Other options would be to reverse-engineer the protocol, which would have been really really scary, or building a Windows proxy to speak MAPI to the Exchange server and something else (XML/RPC?) to the Linux clients, which would add latency and cost.
Ximian is put together by the Ximian company, not by GNOME, so comments that this is "GNOME's own distribution" are incorrect. GNOME's own distribution is what you get when you compile tarballs from gnome.org, and pretty close to what hits debian.
:-)
Ximian Desktop 2.0 is different to GNOME 2.2: most of the differences are public knowledge, but the review mentioned in the article is a bit crap.
-> It's integrated. Instead of having half a dozen apps to do the same job lying around, one is distributed in Ximian to be the obvious way of performing that task. Oo.o for word processing, Galeon 1.3 for web browsing, Realplayer for playing Realplayer-type things and so on.
-> It includes non-GNOME software. KDE tends to include an app for every purpose in the main KDE distribution as far as I understand; GNOME doesn't include the gimp, office applications and so on in the main distribution. Ximian does, and some of the applications such as OO.o are not GNOME applications.
-> The non-GNOME applications are integrated. There is antialised text in OO.o; it follows the main GNOME theme although it's not GTK 2; and so on.
-> Red Hat and Ximian both extend GNOME and give their users the extensions before they get upstream; there will be little goodies in Ximian GNOME that aren't in mainstream GNOME (but may be in GNOME 2.2)
-> Printers are configurable and editable.
-> The control center is fixed. Instead of having thousands of entries in a menu, it looks OS X-ey.
-> There is a "My Computer" on the desktop and various things in the menus to make the whole thing intuitive to use if you wheel along Grandma Mathilda and sit her in front of the computer.
That's all public knowledge. The best stuff is probably OO.o integration and printer configuration. Anything else will have to wait for next week when it's downloadable
Here's one mirror I know of: http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~lindkvis/xd2/screenshots/
Have you ever logged a bug regarding too large dialogs? I'm on the kde-devel mailing lists, and have seen a couple of bugs come through related to large dialogs in CVS. They ARE taken seriously and they do get fixed. But they can only get fixed if they are known.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Well, the nice thing with shared libraries is that every time a bug is fixed in a lib, the bug is fixed for _all_ apps using that lib.
Mozilla's X11 toolkit is gtk. The older (gtk1) builds need to be built with specifically xft support. The newer (gtk2) builds automatically support all of the X font goodness.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Probably the most insightful think said in this thread, including the original +5 parent. Too bad no one pays attention to ACs :)
Anyway you're partly wrong, there is a free implementation of DCE RPC at http://sourceforge.net/projects/freedce . I don't know how complete it is, but I think it's useable.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
No, DCOM is based on MSRPC, a forked derivative of DCE-RPC. The wire protocol is different for instance. Read up on the history of it.