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Camouflage in Motion

Adrian writes "Remember Jurassic Park, where Goldbloom stood really still and the T-Rex couldn't see him? Well, there might be a better way. Scientists have found that dragonflies can dissappear by keeping their image on your retina in the same place, even if you move. How they manage it still has them puzzled... ;)"

17 of 57 comments (clear)

  1. Hm by cjpez · · Score: 4, Funny

    What an incredibly hollow article. "We've used some technical majiggers to look at some stuff and wow! Look what we came up with!" It's a good thing there wasn't any actual details in there, it may have been interesting.

    1. Re:Hm by Cy+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Discovery.com provides a few more details but since the scientists themselves are still baffled, I don't think we will find any lengthy explanations of the phenomenom except perhaps by reading the article in Nature itself which is not available except by subscription.

      The thing new in the Discovery article I found significant was that they performed the movements with "millimetric" precision.

      I wonder if the dragonfly's 3 foot long ancestors were also capable of such precision, or whether the need to remain so precise led to their reduced current size.

  2. How they manage it still has them puzzled... by Yarn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never seen a puzzled dragonfly. Oh. The scientists.

    I'd assume that the dragonfly merely tries to keep the thing it's hiding from in the same position on *its* retina. It'd be a fairly simple feedback mechanism, if you did it with analogue electronics.

    --
    -Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
    1. Re:How they manage it still has them puzzled... by barakn · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It doesn't seem that simple to me. Imagine a dragonfly flying in a circle around its prey. It yaws appropriately so that it always faces its prey, and so it maintains the prey's image at the same position on its retinae. Instead of appearing to stay at a fixed point to the prey, however, the dragonfly revolves around it a full 360 degrees. This very unstealthy maneuver shows that trying "to keep the thing it's hiding from in the same position on *its* retina" is insufficient.

      In the simplest case, with the prey not moving, all the knowledge the dragonfly needs is the position of the prey. The solution is to fly straight at the prey. It never seems to move from its position on the background but appears larger and larger as it moves in for the kill.

      Cases with the prey moving are more difficult to visualize. You can simplify it by assuming that they are confined to a 2D plane and then drawing their positions on a sheet of paper (or a computer screen). Imagine two diifferent scenarios:

      Case #1. The dragonfly is on a straight line and about half way between the prey and a bush. The dragonfly is superimposed on the bush, from the prey's point of view. The prey is flying perpendicular to this straight line. In order to stay on a straight line between prey and bush, the dragonfly must also move.

      Case #2. Same situation, except that now the dragonfly is practically touching the bush. The prey moves but the dragonfly hardly needs to move at all to appear to remain at the same spot on the bush.

      It should thus be obvious that the distance of the dragonfly to the background object is an important variable. Perhaps it somehow memorizes what object is exactly 180 degrees away from the prey, and then it keeps an eye on both at the same time and flies so as to maintain their positions 180 degrees apart on its retinae (both objects might drift across the retinae, so long as they are exactly opposite each other).

      --
      "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  3. King Charles II of England did this by TomGroves · · Score: 4, Interesting

    King Charles 'beheaded' guests who bored or annoyed him by viewing them at such an angle that his blindspot was over their head. Try it for yourself

  4. Breaking news: Scientist reinvent the wheel again by eggstasy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well duh. Didn't they ever catch flies when they were young? The way to do it is to take two fingers and follow the fly with them, maintaining the distance between your hand and the fly. after a while the fly will think your fingers are part of the background and will easily let you catch it.

  5. Mwa ha! I will be king of the fpers! by dasunt · · Score: 3, Funny

    x <- Moderators, keep staring at this point.
    Everone else can look here -> x

    Now, if my calculations are correct, I should be able to get away with this:
    Imagine a beowulf cluster of F1r5t P05t!

    Mwa ha ha!

    Oh wait, you mean that I'm too big to be a dragonfly?

  6. Movie versus Book. by tcak · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually the book "The Lost World", which was written by Michael Crichton who wrote "Jurassic Park", shows an opposite behavior of the T-Rex.

    The following lines from the book says:

    Sarah Harding said, "Why did Dodgson just stand there like that? That's not the way to act around predators. You get caught around lions, you make a lot of noise, wave your hands, throw things at them. Try to scare them off. You don't just stand there."
    .....
    "Roxton," Levine said, "believed that tyrannosaurs had a visual system like an amphibian: like a frog. A frog sees motion but doesn't see stillness. But it is quite impossible that a predator such as a tyrannosaur would have a visual system that worked that way. Quite impossible. Because the most common defense of prey animals is to freeze. A deer or something like that, it senses danger, and it freezes. A predator has to be able to see them anyway. And of course a tyrannosaur could."

  7. Sounds a little like... by JasonMaggini · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Picard maneuver. Although I doubt dragonflies can punch it up to warp speed yet.

  8. Re:Breaking news: Scientist reinvent the wheel aga by isaac · · Score: 3, Funny
    Well duh. Didn't they ever catch flies when they were young? The way to do it is to take two fingers and follow the fly with them, maintaining the distance between your hand and the fly. after a while the fly will think your fingers are part of the background and will easily let you catch it.

    Yet another example of the universal truth: Everything I need to know, I learned from "The Karate Kid."

    -Isaac

    --
    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
  9. Better Articles by MonkeyBoyo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Boy, that MSNBC article was bad. They even mispelled the researcher's name. It is "Akiko Mizutani" not "Aikiko Mizutani".

    Here is some better coverage of the story. discovery, NationalPost, and Ananova.

    And here is a nice page from the Insect Vision, Navigation and "Cognition" Laboratory at ANU, but it doesn't cover the dragonfly work.

  10. A few things guessed... by Stonan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Since there aren't any deatils.

    1. What is are the distances involved?

    2. Best guess, they're using a single lens camera. I believe dragonflies eat flies. If this is so and the fact that flies have compound eyes, does this test really hold true for their natural prey or just for 'human-style' eyes?

    3. I'm not 100% sure myself that dragonflies have compound eyes, but if they do then I would expect that their eyes are accurate enough to see the retina of it's prey (or whatever) and keep itself in the same position relative to those movments.

    BTW these are just the quick thoughts of an amateur scientist with 20 years of software trouble-shooting expereience. The points I've made seem logical to me but I've come to the conclusion that logic really doesn't work that well in the waking world.

    --
    The GEEK shall inherit the earth...
    1. Re:A few things guessed... by KillerBob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dragonflies catch many insects, not just flies. You're right that most bugs have compound eyes, though, so it is an interesting question.

      A point, though... they wouldn't have to be thinking "human-style" eyes. It's probably more of a defensive measure than an offensive measure, though... as birds have normal eyes, not compound eyes. Their eyes are also, largely, on the sides of their heads, and wouldn't give them great depth perception.

      Still... a very interesting idea.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  11. From reading the Nature article by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Informative

    Generally speaking, the dragonfly moves in such a way that if you draw a line from the dragonfly to the prey at each increment of some time step, the lines will (nearly, because it's not perfect) cross at one point. Thus, to the prey, it appears that the dragonfly is a stationary object located at the point where the lines cross.

    It relies on a lack of depth perception, obviously. As a guess, perhaps the dragonfly is able to accomplish this by using the same visual cues it evokes in its prey - if the dragonfly moves in the right way, then its prey will appear to be a stationary object (from the dragonfly's perspective) as well.

    However, this doesn't account for situations where the dragonfly emulates an object that is behind it (i.e., the lines cross at a point on the far side of the dragonfly) or an object at a large distance (where the dragonfly directly shadows the prey, copying its every move).

    If you are still confused, think of it this way: You're playing your favorite first-person shooter, and you want to hide behind a tree/pillar/rock so that an approaching target can't see you. You can move around the tree so that it always forms an intervening object. If you draw a line between yourself and your target at each moment in time, they all intersect at the tree. If your target happened to have really crappy eyesight (compound eyes, perhaps) then you could just remove the tree, and at every moment in time they'd see you there along the same line of sight where the tree would have been, so the target perceives you as being located where the tree would have been and moving along as if you were a part of the landscape. (The advantage, though, is that you can move around and close in on your prey, while your prey remains unaware of the soon-to-occur frag.)

    1. Re:From reading the Nature article by foniksonik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dragonflies maybe have near 360 degree vision, considering their large bulbous compound eyes, which might account for the rear-view capabilities?

      In any case, the real question is how we as humans intend to take advantage of this knowledge when dealing with similarly equipped, ie steroscopic vision, opponents. It's not as if we can actually move that fast, at least not at close range. Maybe that's it, maybe it's something we could use for our stealth program.... nah nobody uses 'video' for aircraft detection. So what? Project a hologram into your opponents eyes with a laser that makes it seem like you are always in one place? Still I don't see how this is useful. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe it's not 'us' that will be hiding, maybe nano-dust-speck-spy-devices will use this to stay out of sight? hmmm... that at least seems plausible.

      Well, here's to applications of esoteric knowledge! *raises glass of champaigne*

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  12. Re:same spot in retina? by zenyu · · Score: 2, Informative

    So that's why my monitor keeps disappearing if I look at it for more than a few mi... oh...

    If you take your finger and hold your eyeball in place things will fade to black (so long as you don't move your head and close the other eye.) I don't think this trick would work against us since we can and do move our eyeballs independently of our body. Fireflies only have to pull this trick on the flies they eat...

    The eyemovements we make to be able to sit practically motionless before our monitors is called saccade. (Or "Freedom Eyes" in New American.)

  13. Background tracking error reduction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've seen something like this before. Once I was outside cleaning up after a party. I went to pick up a vase of flowers and I noticed a few tiny fruit flies(?) that were hovering near the flowers. The funny thing was that when I picked up the flowers, these flies would maintain the exact same relative position to the flowers. Even if I rotated the vase around its axis.

    It was like taking the flies for a walk on an imaginary but invisible leash.

    I guess that the flies had an instinct that to remain still, they must reduce the error in *their* retina between the current background image and the stored background image. I am guessing that dragonflies have evolved to do the same thing but with a greater degree of freedom. i.e. a chosen target rather than the whole background.