Slashdot Mirror


Tales From The Perilous Realm

honestpuck writes "I find it surprising that with the current popularity of the The Lord of The Rings movies and subsequent rise in sales of the trilogy and The Hobbit that so few bookshops stock more of the Professor's other works. Fortunately this volume makes it easier. It puts four of his works in one, Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil Leaf By Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major." The first and fourth of these I've read elsewhere (and enjoyed), so I'm glad to learn of the other two. Read on for honestpuck's capsule description of each. Tales From The Perilous Realm author J.R.R. Tolkein pages 192 publisher Harper Collins rating 9 reviewer Tony Williams ISBN 0261103431 summary Excellent short stories and poetry from a master story-tellet Farmer Giles of Ham This is a marvelous tale of a reluctant, and accidental, hero and a dragon who doesn't quite live up to the stereotype. The style is a little old fashioned, making it seem more like the fairy tales of your childhood than even The Hobbit, with a dry sense of humour. That said, it also seems to be the hardest for a child to enjoy (my sample size is only two, however), though personally I liked it when I first read it and enjoy it still.. It is the longest of the four works and by far the earliest written and published, 1949. The Adventures of Tom Bombadil The Adventures is a collection of 16 assorted poems, most are either partially quoted or referred to in The Lord Of The Rings. The poems are a mixed bag, ranging from the short and amusing "Oliphaunt" through to the more adult and wistful "The Last Ship" that closes the collection. All are enjoyable for the adult reader, some enjoyable for children. Iâ(TM)ve never really liked Tolkienâ(TM)s verse when he tries to be serious, in this collection I only really like "Oliphaunt." Leaf By Niggle The shortest of the three stories, in this one Niggle, whose dreams far outweigh his talent, sets out to paint the perfect tree and is caught up in his own variation of the Pygmalion myth (though it is a tree that comes to life.) It is a marvelously written tale that unfolds beautifully. Smith of Wootton Major My favourite of them all, a tale in which Smith voyages to the land of the faeries via a magical cake. Another story that revolves around the dreams and fantasies in a life. This one is a perfect fairy tale and perfect for reading aloud to a small person, full of magic and charm and whimsy it brings to mind everything I loved about The Hobbit. Conclusion

While the three tales and 16 poems all have their differences there is certainly a distinctive style across them all. Just a little old-fashioned, a little formal - in fact almost exactly how you'd expect an Oxford Professor to write fiction. This volume is worth reading, and an enjoyable read but does not quite have the magnificence of language in The Lord of The Rings nor the wonderful light touch of well-crafted children's tale in The Hobbit. They are good short pieces, that sort of excellence is hard to craft into such short works.

Anyone who enjoyed The Hobbit will find this a wonderful volume. Tolkein always talked of writing both The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings as a way of creating truly English myth and fairy tales (he felt that Arthur was too much a tale borrowed from the French). While both of those 'grew in the telling,' this small volume gives us three marvelous (and English in feel) fairy tales and some good poetry. A must for all Tolkein fans.

Tales from the Perilous Realm is harder to find than Tolkein's better-known works, but is available from online merchants including Amazon. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

66 of 246 comments (clear)

  1. Who's Tom Bombadill? by MoxCamel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sorry, just watched the DVD again, didn't see him. Anything other than the movie just isn't canon. :P

    1. Re:Who's Tom Bombadill? by mbogosian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Who's Tom Bombadil?

      Gene Hargrove has one answer, but it will only make sense if you've at least read the Lord of the Rings.

    2. Re:Who's Tom Bombadill? by MoxCamel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >> heheh, while we're at it, I thik we need a mod for "-1 dumbass!"

      Yeah...for the dumbasses who reply to the original post thinking it's a serious question.

    3. Re:Who's Tom Bombadill? by mbogosian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Steuard Jensen has a differing opinion. Both Hargrove's and Jensen's essays are referenced in the The Encyclopedia of Arda entry.

      From William D. B. Loos' essay:

      As to Tom's nature, there are several schools of thought.

      He was a Maia (the most common notion). The reasoning here is plain: given the Middle-earth cast of characters as we know it, this is the most convenient pigeonhole in which to place him (and Goldberry as well) (most of the other individuals in The Lord of the Rings with "mysterious" origins: Gandalf, Sauron, Wizards, and Balrogs did in fact turn out to be Maiar).

      He was IlÃvatar. The only support for this notion is on theological grounds: some have interpreted Goldberry's statement to Frodo (F: "Who is Tom Bombadil?" G: "He is.") as a form of the Christian "I am that am", which really could suggest the Creator. Tolkien rejected this interpretation quite firmly.

      T.A. Shippey (in The
      Road to Middle-earth) and others have suggested that Tom is a one-of-a-kind type. This notion received indirect support from Tolkien himself....

      For the ill-informed conspiracy theorists out there, you might wish to read this.

      And for those of you who say that public schools aren't turning out good work, you may wish to visit a less meticulous analysis (author unknown) from DPS.

    4. Re:Who's Tom Bombadill? by haystor · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have it on good authority that he later changed his name to John Galt.

      --
      t
  2. Probably because of Chris's publications by Vinnie_333 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think the reluctance of shops to stock Prof Toliens other material is because of the constant issues of his dad's notes and half finished tales that Christopher Tolkien dished out for so many years. I think the LotR is brilliant, but I haven't got time to read through anyones 'works in progress'.

    --

    "We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
  3. inga tengwa by Stargoat · · Score: 5, Funny

    First post, in Elvish.

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    1. Re:inga tengwa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      First post, in Elvish.

      You must get all the ladies.

    2. Re:inga tengwa by Noren · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thank you, Larry Groznic.

  4. Why surprised? by Chris_Stankowitz · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Its the fact that LoTR series has been made into Motion Pictures that is rasing the sales of the books. Maybe if some of his other works were made into TV series (not sure how well that would work) or also motion pics then his other works would sell.

    It should be noted though that the sales of his other books have risen. They obviously just havn't sold as much as the LoTR series.

  5. It's all about punctuation by Torgo's+Pizza · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Adventures of Tom Bombadil Leaf By Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major

    Did anyone else read this as just a very long title? Goes to show that commas still have importance in the English language.

    1. Re:It's all about punctuation by Suidae · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just figured it was one book entitled 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil Leaf' written by two guys named Niggle and Smith from some place called 'Wootton Major'

    2. Re:It's all about punctuation by Earlybird · · Score: 3, Informative
      The big problem is the fact that the "and" is emphasized.

      No, the big problem is that it's incorrectly written and typeset.

      Not only is there a comma missing after "Bombadil", the titles are not emphasized correctly. Quotation marks or emphasis should be used to clearly demarcate the titles. Since the story text itself is in italics, the titles should be in roman (ie., upright) type to set them apart. The correct formatting and grammar, therefore, would be:

      • "... It puts four of his works in one, Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Leaf By Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major."
      Of course, this is probably asking too much from the average Slashdot editor geek type.
  6. He is your personal jesus christ by arcite · · Score: 2, Funny

    Think of a Jesus Christ figure prancing through the woods with golden curls who defeats his enemies through song... then you have Tom Bombadill. Truly, a king among middle earth men. :D

    1. Re:He is your personal jesus christ by L.+VeGas · · Score: 4, Funny

      Think of a Jesus Christ figure prancing through the woods with golden curls who defeats his enemies through song.

      There actually are scenes with him (played by Richard Simmons) in the extended version available on DVD. They had to cut them because he kept bursting into tears.

    2. Re:He is your personal jesus christ by 5.11Climber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't put him in the class of men. I believe that he is treated more as a spirit from the first age though his origins are a bit cloudy.

      --
      Arf!
    3. Re:He is your personal jesus christ by Matrix272 · · Score: 3, Funny

      If there was a mod called "Scary" I would give you +5 points...

      Richard Simmons in Lord of the Rings? Oh dear god, what has the world come to?

      --
      "It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
  7. reading aloud by trillian42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of my favorite childhood memories is my dad reading The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings out loud to me and my younger brother. I'm glad other people are doing that with their kids also, and it's cool that there are more Tolkein stories to delve into. :)

    1. Re:reading aloud by L.+VeGas · · Score: 4, Funny

      I used to get a huge kick out of telling my two sons that I was reading from The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. I was really just holding the book and telling them old "I Dream of Jeanie" episodes.
      --------
      trillian42's dad

    2. Re:reading aloud by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, and the best part is that by the time you're finished, they're old enough to drive!

      j/k - I've got 3 kids under 15 months, and can't wait to read to them....

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    3. Re:reading aloud by THX-1139 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Tolkien's works are meant to be read aloud, far more so than the other authors of his genre. He drew his inspiration from ancient works that began as oral traditions. He also participated in regular reading of his material with the Inklings and elsewhere. Some of these readings have been preserved and are a must-listen for any Tolkien fan.

      I don't think I truly appreciated Tom Bombadil, the Ent's war song, or Gollum's "gollum" until I heard Tolkien bringing them to life.

  8. Really good book: Simarillian by MurrayTodd · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Simarillian is a must-have for anyone interested in Tolkien's world. It was actually his FIRST work, predating the Hobbit, but people told him it wouldn't sell. It was an ongoing work and his son (Christopher) edited and published it after his death.

    It goes through all the history from "In the Beginning there was darkness" sort of Genisis to the final history of Aragorn and Arwen. There you learn about where Gandolf comes from, what the Wizards really are (same tier of age as Balrogs, interestingly) as well as Soron's predecessor, Melkor.

    Repeat VERY GOOD BOOK TO HAVE!!!!

    --
    Murray Todd Williams
    1. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by CableModemSniper · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just a word to the wise, it ain't exactly light reading. Its practically the ME equivalent of the Bible, and reads similiarly in terms of style.

      --
      Why not fork?
    2. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by mike_mgo · · Score: 2, Informative

      While I own it and have read it a couple of times, it's not a great book. It's very useful as a reference to learn about the things you mentioned, but it is not a compelling story and I doubt it would have sold very well if it had to stand on its own merits

    3. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by tuffy · · Score: 2, Informative

      And, of course, if you loved "the Silmarillion", it's good to check out "the Book of Lost Tales" 1 and 2 (especially 2) and the "Lays of Beleriand". All of them tend toward the serious, but they also feature more epic grandeur and fantasy than the more down-to-earth Tolkien works like "Lord of the Rings". I highly recommend them, but they're definitely not light reading by any means.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    4. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by tuffy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      While I own it and have read it a couple of times, it's not a great book. It's very useful as a reference to learn about the things you mentioned, but it is not a compelling story and I doubt it would have sold very well if it had to stand on its own merits

      That's debatable, to be sure. The Silmarillion is a fine tale of good intentions gone awry and the ends failing to justify the means (strangely apropos, these days). It tends to be quite dense, featuring huge chunks of explanatory text rather than the more reader-friendly descriptive text. But, when one looks at the tale(s) and themes as a whole (especially after a second reading, or third), it's clear Tolkien knew what he was doing in terms of storytelling.

      Of course, it could've been better had he buckled-down and finished it properly. But I've come to appreciate the work itself more with each reading.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    5. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by j0hnfr0g · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just a word to the wise, it ain't exactly light reading. Its practically the ME equivalent of the Bible, and reads similiarly in terms of style.

      Just to be a little more specific, it is more like the Old Testament of the Bible.

      The New Testament narratives are usually easier to read for the modern English reader. Many people compare The Hobbit and LoTR to the New Testament, especially in the light of prophecy being fulfilled.

      As a side note, you may want to look into the books of Luke and Acts in the New Testament, which are two narratives that are relatively easy to read and are based on manuscripts with excellent Greek style (IIRC). And these two flow together, sort of like a part 1 and part 2.

    6. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Quite possibly my favorite thing about those books is that there are several tales with definitely unhappy endings. While most of Tolkein's work is based on ancient myth, several of these stories seem remarkably original and unpredictable compared to other work done before or since...

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    7. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by dschuetz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, the Silmarillion is an excellent book, but definitely hard to read. I've only read it a couple times, and the last time I tried to take it one story at a time, which made it a little easier to digest.

      The other books published by his son, Christopher, have also been very interesting, though much harder to digest, and probably should be taken in publication order. In decreasing order of "accessibilty," there's probably "Unfinished Tales" (sort of an addendum to the Silmarillion), "The Book of Lost Tales" (parts 1 and 2), which covers some of the same material as Silmarillion (as well as some additional tales) but from a slightly different viewpoint, and with a bit more of a narrative frame around it, then "The Lays of Beleriand," which is basically two unfinished versions of stories in the Silmarallion presented in alliterative verse (think Beowulf).

      After that, they get much more specific to individual stories and detailed as to drafts, notes, unfinished bits, etc.

      However, I did find one very interesting tidbit recently while looking up information on Saruman. Tolkien toyed with the idea (I believe expressed in a letter but never expanded upon) that "Saruman might actually *be* the Balrog of Moria." Basically, Balrogs and the Istari (wizards), as well as Sauron, are all Maiar (sort of a demi-god, or higher-level angel), and can take any form they choose. So it's entirely possible that Saruman could have manifested himself as a Balrog. However, Tolkien never actually followed up on this idea.

      Anyway, what's best about the Silmarillion is that it ties everything together. Ever wonder what Elrond's story is? Who Galadriel is? (she's pretty much the oldest Elf there, actually). Where Shelob came from? A while back, I started trying to outline the entire history of Middle Earth, from the Two Trees to RoTK, and it was amazing to see how many threads all came back together.

      A great way to "browse" through the entire Middle Earth history is The Encyclopedia of Arda. Lots of details there, in a very well-produced hyperlinked setting.

    8. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by dschuetz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to mention the fact it kills off Glorfindel a few hundred years before he saves Frodo in Lord of the Rings

      Yeah, that confused me, too. Different elf, same name. Check this out: Glorfindel

      [er...sorry...reposted 'cause I wrongly thought slash would automagically linkify a bare URL. And then I had to wait 2 minutes to correct it. Almost not worth the trouble. So I hope you appreciate it. :) (yes, I'm killing time waiting for the timer to time out).]

    9. Re:Really good book: Simarillian by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Informative
      Who Galadriel is? (she's pretty much the oldest Elf there, actually).

      Cirdan is older. Galadriel was born in Aman in the days of the Two Trees, and after the Darkening of Valinor she crossed into Middle-earth across the Helcaraxe with Fingolfin, having been marooned in Araman by Feanor. Yes, she's extremely ancient - and hardcore, too, to have made that journey. But Cirdan began his life at Cuivienen under the Stars, and reached the western shores of Beleriand with the march of the Teleri; there he remained throughout the First Age until the destruction after the battle of Tears Unnumbered, at which point he moved to the isle of Balar and became a leader of the Elvish enclave around the mouth of Sirion. After the downfall of Beleriand he established himself at the Grey Havens west of what became the Shire, where he remained to the end of the Third Age.

      The only people older than Cirdan in Middle-earth, to my knowledge, are the Maiar - Sauron, the Balrog, and the Wizards - the oldest Ents, Fangorn and perhaps Finglas and Fladrif - and Tom Bombadil.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  9. What about his most important work?? by arcite · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Less we forget Tolkiens translation of the Pearl Poet's, 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'? That poem kicks ass (atleast as far as a poem can kick one's ass, that is)!

  10. Christopher Tolkien's "History of Middle-Earth" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Serious Tolkien readeres will probably be interested in Christopher Tolkien's "History of Middle-Earth" and the other publications which have been released.

    Everyone else probably will have comparatively little use for them. If you haven't read the "Silmarillion", I wouldn't even bother picking them up; on the other hand, if you want a "first-hand" look at how the Lord of the Rings was constructed, "The History of Middle-Earth" is very insightful (and will give you a lot of extra-geeky trivia to throw around).

    I have read "Smith of Wotton Major" and "Farmer Giles of Ham", and to throw in my two bits I think they're both wonderful stories. "Farmer" is at times outright hilarious, as the above reviewer indicates the humor is dry; I found it thoughly entertaining.

    "Smith" is another matter. I think it's a wonderful story, too, but it's a "fey-story" in the old sense, which means it's actually a little creepy at times. I loved it as a child, but found it a little disturbing. Recently reading it (~8 months ago) I thought it absolutely beautiful, and decidely bittersweet.

    Another story not in this collection that's very recommended for both whimsical adults and any child is "Roverandom", which is a wonderful fantasy about a lost toy dog who ends up in the company of wizards...

    1. Re:Christopher Tolkien's "History of Middle-Earth" by Suidae · · Score: 3, Funny

      I found Silmarillion to be a really heavy read. I could never sit still very long to read it. I solved this by leaving it on the back of the toilet, now I'm making good progress on it. Slow and steady wins the race.

  11. wait there's more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    dont forget _The Silmarillion_ and _The Lays of Beleriand_. The Silmarillion is required reading for anyone interested in the culture and mythology of Middle Earth. Besides, _The Silmarillion_ was Tolkien's life's work and the trilogy was based on the stories in this tome.

  12. Tolkein's Translation of Gilgamesh by codefool · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Hopefully someone here can help with this.

    I remember reading a couple of months back that some researcher requested someo f Tolkein's papers from the Oxford archives, and found within it a line-by-line translation of Gilgamesh, in Tolkein's own hand, with his comments. The article said that the translation was to be published this summer. I can find no reference to this on the web, however.

    Anyone else here of this?

    --
    "Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
    1. Re:Tolkein's Translation of Gilgamesh by larsga · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is just wrong. Tolkien didn't know Sumerian, and never did any work on it.

    2. Re:Tolkein's Translation of Gilgamesh by Earlybird · · Score: 2, Informative

      'Twas Beowulf , not Gilgamesh.

    3. Re:Tolkein's Translation of Gilgamesh by $hecky · · Score: 2, Informative
      The found papers were a translation of Beowulf: see this story . That he had his own translation isn't really surprising since his Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics is probably the most significant piece of Beowulf scholarship out there-- in doing any (good) criticism, you translate the subject text yourself. What we've got, in other words, is probably more like a protracted set of notes than a book.

      Most of the time, at least in my experience, these working translations aren't very good reading. What you write for publication is usually very different (hopefully less confusing) than what you note-- if you've ever picked up Aristotle, you'll know what I mean.

      If you want a great lyrical translation of Beowulf, though, try Seamus Heaney's.

      Nate

      --
      You never know who will get one.
  13. Another Great Accomplishment by ElitusPrime · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Also worth noting is that Tolkin was one of the original translators of the New Jerusalem Bible.

    yes... yes... I know that many of you don't believe in God, etc. But, hopefully, you'll recognize that translating the entire Bible to English is quite an accomplishment for one of our favorite authors. And, just maybe, you'll even appreciate how happy it makes us Christians to have this great author bring his talents to scripture.

    Then again, maybe I'll just get modded to oblivion...

    --
    The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried. -G.K. Chesterton
    1. Re:Another Great Accomplishment by kiwimate · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well...um...yes...but...

      He worked on a couple of books (eg, Ruth, maybe, if my memory serves?), but (as was typical throughout his life) he got far too involved in the details. Being a lover of language above all else, he contributed vast reams of notes on the linguistic history of each phrase and missed out on the bigger picture. It's a bit of a stretch to talk about him translating the entire Bible.

      This comment, by the way, is not a criticism of Tolkien as such, more an observation. If you read his Letters, time and time again you'll come across apologies for being late with submissions to his publishers, having neglected this or that work...he always bit off far more than he could chew and inevitably produced rich fragments. That's why Christopher Tolkien has such a magnificent stash of notes to exploit^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpublish.

      Interestingly enough, this happens to be perhaps the major failing of Niggle in Leaf by Niggle, despite Tolkien's oft-misquoted distaste for allegory. (The other major theme you may well see in that work is an allegory of Purgatory, which some critics claim stems directly from Tolkien's strong Catholic beliefs.)

      Tolkien, in fact, was a very staunch Catholic, and his Catholic beliefs pervaded everything he did (although for his views on this you really have to read his Letters, where he disclaims allegations of religious parallels in certain of his works). A long evening stroll that he took with C.S. Lewis was instrumental in Lewis' renewed interest in Christianity. Tolkien was naturally happy about this, but at the same time a bit disquieted and not a little hurt that Lewis went on to become so famous and well-regarded given he was almost a johnny-come-lately, having reconverted to Christianity at a later age in life. (Tolkien was also a bit miffed that Lewis became an Anglican (Episcopalian in the U.S.); he viewed Anglicanism as being a watered-down imitation of Catholicism, whose main recommendation was their beautiful cathedrals which had been perverted from their rightful Catholic purpose.)

  14. Happened to me! by pubjames · · Score: 4, Funny

    My favourite of them all, a tale in which Smith voyages to the land of the faeries via a magical cake.

    That happened to me at the office Christmas party! Someone tooks photos and then put them up on the notice board. It was really embarassing.

  15. 3 of 4 by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An earlier recopilation of most of this tales (without the one about Tom Bombadil) was Tree and Leaf (or at least, in spanish, was "Arbol y Hoja", that can be easily found in bookstores here in Uruguay). Of this 3 tales, the one I remember more is Leaf, by Niggle, is just the kind of tale that remembers you that Tolkien was a great writer even without the Middle Earth.

  16. Letters from Father Christmas by RealAlaskan · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Letters from Father Christmas .

    Every year for 23 years, Tolkien wrote his children a letter from Father Christmas, from the late 20's into the 40's. The great depression and WWII get mentioned in passing, but Father Christmas always triumphs.

    This one is good for reading to children, with wonderful pictures by Tolkien. For older children, you can sprinkle in a bit of history by telling why Father Christmas had such trouble delivering toys in 1932, and so on. For the Tolkien fancier, the book gives some insight into the author's mind. For example, my edition has samples of the ``elvish writing'' which Father Christmas sent to the children.

  17. Homer Simpson Moment. by Gumshoe · · Score: 3, Funny
    [Smith of Wootton Major] a tale in which Smith voyages to the land of the faeries via a magical cake.


    Mmmm... Brownies...
  18. You answer you own question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Q: Why aren't all these other books as popular?
    A: Because they aren't as good as LOTR.

    Duh. :)

    Personally I hated the LOTR trilogy and I can't see why any of it is popular. It is a crude and awkward reading experience. Sure, it is the grandfather of fantasy - but it is by no means the best.

    I am mostly a science fiction fan, but my favorite fantasy book ever is "Magician" by Raymond E. Feist. Highly recommended even to those (like myself) that otherwise hate the genre. There are a bunch of books in the series, with prequels and sequels. All the books are seriously good, well written, very pleasant reading experience.

    "Magician". In store now! Get it today!

    1. Re:You answer you own question by Matrix272 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Lord of the Rings is so popular because it's so detailed and complex. JRR Tolkien INVENTED several languages just so he could use phrases here and there in reference in the books, and all put together, including The Hobbit and the Silmarillion, there aren't even 2000 pages worth. It's the same reason the Dune series is so popular. Frank Herbert seemed to actually like in the Dune universe, and could convey thoughts, actions, visions, conversations, etc. that happened in that universe to a degree that very, very few authors can.

      I won't deny that the Riftwar Saga by Raymond Feist is an excellent Fantasy series, but I personally don't think it holds a candle to LOTR. My reason is simple: I haven't read all of them. In fact, I haven't read any of them. I read half-way through the first book, and lost interest... and I'm pretty faithful about finishing books (and series) that I start.

      I should also mention that the book "Magician" was originally published in one hard-back novel, but was split into 2 books when they went to paperback. They are called "Magician: Apprentice" and "Magician: Master".

      --
      "It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
    2. Re:You answer you own question by Grab · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm. Very good scenes in it, certainly, and the writing generally is good. The deus-ex-machina ending is *very* poor though (don't tell me it leads into the other books; it was supposed to be a single book until it sold well), and the happy-ever-after bit with all the heroes and heroines pairing off just sucked.

      I'm just plowing through the "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" series from Tad Williams ATM. It's good so far. Warning: the main criticism ppl have is that it's too slow. Fair enough, but the fact that everyone spends a lot of time talking means that you get to care about them, so when they get killed, you don't think that the remaining ppl are being wimps when it affects them. Ppl who you thought were fixtures suddenly get wiped out; it's more "realistic" in that way than most other fantasy series. And the main characters therefore have a more realistic "humane" approach to the constant death around them than the Gimli/Legolas head-hunting competition, where you never feel either was ever in any danger.

      BTW, not anything like any of these, and completely off-topic, but try "Grass" by Sherri Tepper for the best book I've ever read (it's kind of loose SF/fantasy). If I had to cut my shelves down to one book only, it would probably be this one.

      Grab.

  19. Farmer Giles of Ham by jpetts · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is definitely NOT a childrens book. It is absolutely crammed with in-jokes that are firmly directed at linguists and philologists and other academics.

    For example, when Tolkien talks about Farmer Giles' blunderbuss, he makes a point of saying that people might not know what a blunderbuss is, then goes on to say the "the four wise clerks of Oxenford" define it as . This is lifted EXACTLY from the then-current edition of the the Oxford English Dictionary.

    The dry, pedantic style was also directed at the similar style employed by academics.

    Also, one has to remember that this was written in the aftermath of one of the most terrible wars the country had ever seen, and also came at the end of rationing in the UK, and despite the style, FGoH is a rollicking great belly laugh, definitely one of JRRT's really intelligent works.

    BTW, was going through my papers last night and found my old copies of JRRT's poems, "Imram," which chronicles the travels of Saint Brendan, and "The Lay of Aotrao and Itroun", a very dark epic poem in the Breton tradition, which I copied by hand from the original manuscripts back in the '70s. As far as I know these have never been published, which is a shame, as they are both excellent works...

    --
    Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
    1. Re:Farmer Giles of Ham by Nept · · Score: 2, Insightful

      TW, was going through my papers last night and found my old copies of JRRT's poems, "Imram,"

      Wow... is there any way you could make those copies available online? They sound fascinating.

      --
      "Teachers leave us kids alone ..." - Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
    2. Re:Farmer Giles of Ham by umrgregg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed they have been published. Imram in the December 3, 1955 issue of in the Time and Tide. The Lay of Aotrou and Itroun which is thought to be written as an alternative ending for Chaucer's The Franklin's Tale and is published in the December, 1945 issue of the Welsh Review. NMG

      --
      NMG
  20. Tom raises several issues by arcite · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I read this odd section of the book I always find Tom to be a rather creepy character. He seems to eminate power and is able to see into the future, yet he chooses to pacify his enemies though the most gentle of means (by singing!). As mysteriously as he appears, he is quickly forgotten and plays no other important part in the book. He is somehow 'above' the petty, earthly issues of the dark lord and the one ring and sees no reason to alter the forseen course that history will take. I suppose like so many other characters in LotR, Tom is an idealized figure, whose actions are constrained by the nature of his being. Otherwise, why would he not just prance down to Mordor and sing a little toon for Sauron? :D One wonders what Lucas would have done with Tom... CGI extravaganza showdown with Sauron! Bullet time anyone??? :::shudder:::

    1. Re:Tom raises several issues by magarity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He is somehow 'above' the petty, earthly issues of the dark lord and the one ring

      This is because he is a Druidic figure who believes in balance between good and evil. Unlike the good guys who want to do away with evil and the bad guys who want to do away with good. Instead, Tom sees that the fight is pretty well balanced (despite an advantage on paper for the evil side). After all, good and bad can't exist without the other to compare against.

    2. Re:Tom raises several issues by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 2, Funny
      Unlike the good guys who want to do away with evil and the bad guys who want to do away with good.

      The bad guys don't want to do away with good, they're just looking for unlimited power and control over good (much like the RIAA).
      That, and cheap labor for their smelters.

      --

      They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
    3. Re:Tom raises several issues by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That doesn't sound like Tolkien. For one thing, that world-view is dualistic, not Christian. Tolkien was, you'll remember, a devout Catholic. Although some Christians are dualists (in that sense, not the idealist/dualist/materialist sense), I believe that Tolkien was too intelligent for that. His good friend Lewis certainly was.

      After all, good and bad can't exist without the other to compare against.

      Not so. Good exists; in fact, God is (cf. Moses & the burning bush...). Evil is simply the rejection of existence, of reality (hence calling Satan the Father of Lies). Good is; evil is not. If good and evil are simply opposing forces, then one is not better than the other, there is no fundamental moral difference--one can freely choose between them. If one is better than the other, then there is an external yardstick, which is itself the actual good.

  21. Re:The Silmarillion is not his first. Maybe last by tuffy · · Score: 2, Informative
    Technically, it is not true that the book "The Silmarillion" predated The Hobbit"

    That's not true either. There isn't a single "Silmarillion", though Tolkien continued work on it throughout his life. After "the Hobbit" turned into a big success, Tolkien tried to get the Silmarillion into print. But after being convinced by his publisher that it wouldn't sell, he basically melded aspects of the Hobbit and Silmarillion (along with the fall of Numenor) into Lord of the Rings and got that published instead. Afterward, he continued to work on the Silmarillion until he died.

    Later, Christopher Tolkien took the most viable "cross section" of his father's continuous Silmarillion work and got it published and then went on to put all the pre-existing stuff into print as well as part of the "History of Middle Earth" series.

    --

    Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  22. Top 10 Tolkein Wrong Names by AtariAmarok · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Repeat after me: T O L K I E N, not Tolkein
    S I L M A R I L L I O N, not Silmarillian"


    10. Who's that guy Fordo Prefect?

    9. Tolkien got Golem from Yiddish myth, right?

    8. Stan Lee should sue: Tolkein got "Sauron" from the X-Men Savage Land comics.

    7. Captain Kirk battled Aragorn on Star Trek.

    5. What's that bad wizard and the guy with the eye? I never get the two straight: Sarmon and Souron? Souromon and Sauromon? Whatever.

    4. If you call me with a technical support question about your Tolkien Ring network, I WILL hang up on you.

    3. Brie: cheese or town?

    2. Fangorn is that horror movie magazine!

    1. "Teleporno". Well, this one is correct: it is a real name in the Tolkien works. This is the one that should be wrong!

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  23. Leaf by Niggle by ansak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To review Leaf by Niggle becomes a lot easier when you remember that Tolkien was a devout Catholic and a confirmed Englishman. From Niggle it also becomes clear that he was a man who loved his hobby of writing Middle Earth stories but still felt obliged to be a good host -- while himself occasionally enjoying reciprocating the demand! -- and a good neighbour. It also becomes clear that he sometimes wondered if there was any long term value in either his work (the arcane study of English language and literature) or his hobby (Et EÃrello Endorenna Ãtulien!).

    The Journey is Niggle's impending death. Parish is his most immediate opportunity to practice Christian charity and neighbourliness. Packing for the journey is the practice of spiritual disciplines.

    One could go on but ought not do so without acknowledging that Tolkien himself claimed to hate allegory wherever he could found it. Nonetheless, the story is much more enjoyable when you look at it from a point of view that acknowledges Tolkien's Christianity and uses it to interpret the various pieces of the work. What we are hearing, I believe, is Tolkien's whisperings in the Confessional Box, but instead of being obscured to the point of unintelligibilty, as velvet-lined walls would do, it's hidden in a form that Tolkien would never have used for any kind of story other than this one: a confession or a spiritual autobiography.

    And don't we all want to be considered cases for Gentle Treatment?

    --
    Still hoping for Gentle Treatment...
  24. Part of the Genius of LOTR by arcite · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ....is that Tolkien kept his characters simple but created a complex world (middle earth)for them to inhabit. As a natural story teller, Tolkien realized that kids and adults alike enjoy living vicariously though charcters in books. Frodo is the 'everyman'. He doesn't have superpowers, super strength, or even super looks :D Because of this, we the reader are able to imprint our emotions onto Frodo and other characters as they wade through the perilous and mysterious place of middle earth. Another view is that Middle Earth is a recreated 'history' of ancient England. Before there were Knights and dragons, there was middle earth. A land which was rural, simple, non-industrialized. Where everyone had a pipe to smoke, a story to tell by the fire, and a garden to tend to: an idealized time. IMO reading LOTR is like taking a relaxing walk though a field on a summers day (as corny as that may be!). Its not about the destination, but the journey(and what you see, smell, and eat along the way).

  25. Three TV/Movie adaptions already by peter303 · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The Hobbit" TV cartoon
    "Lord of the Rings: Part 1" Bashki's movie cartoon
    "Lord of the Rings: Part 2" TV Cartoon
    "Lord of Rings" Jackson trilogy

  26. New box set by Hexact · · Score: 4, Informative
    Amazon.ca gives me also "Hobbit/Roverandom/Tales from Perilous Realm Box Set" when I search for the Tales. It should be available soon. Amazon.com does not have it.

    Tolkien.co.uk gives Feb/03 as the publication date.

    Clem.

  27. Ethel the Aadrvark Goes Quantity Surveying... by Dr+Rick · · Score: 2, Funny

    The titles of these books remind me of the Monty Python bookstore skit... No, "Rarnaby Budge" by Charles Dikkens. That's Dikkens with two Ks, the well-known Dutch author. Do you have "Leaf By Niggle" by .... That's okay, how about "Smith of Wootton Major" by ....

    --

    Dr. Rick
    - "It's such a fine line between clever and stupid" (Nigel Tufnel)
    - Zort! (Pinky)
  28. Seriously, Tom Bombadill == Väinämöinen by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or at least Tolkien must have been aware of the similarities with this hero of the Finnish Kalevala when he was writing his poems. The Kalevala wizards employed a style of magic much like Bombadil's. The Bombadil poems read, unfortunately, like a rather watered down and less earthy copy of the orginal.

    I think it's probably significant that the Bombadil chapters occur so early in LotR, when Tolkien was casting about for a theme. He was trying to create a new English folkore, and the Kalevala was an obvious model, having virtually redefined the Finnish national identity when it was published. The Bombadil chapters of LotR just feel like an unsuccessful graft from a different story. Indeed while with some effort Tolkien managed to accomodate Bombadil in his world by giving him an unique role in it, he rather ignores Goldberry, whose nature is equally problematic.

    The simplest answer is that they both belong to a different story, one that Tolkien thought he might be writing before he found his own voice in Rivendell.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  29. A major point that many miss by devphil · · Score: 3, Interesting


    is that the stories of the Silmarillion aren't really meant to be read, like the published forms of the Hobbit and LotR are.

    The Silmarillion is meant to be told, out loud, in the manner of a bard in the king's hall, reciting and performing before a crowd. Modern readers find the style dry because they're used to having the facial expressions and voice tones spelled out in the text, or shown to them on television. If you read the stories aloud, you find that they're not so dry after all.

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
  30. An open plea to animation companies... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...I'd seriously consider negotiating for the rights to Farmer Giles of Ham and/or Smith of Wootton Major, plus lesser-known (still very good) stories like Roverandum and Mr. Bliss, to be done as animated features. =)

    Given the way these stories are written, they almost BEG to be done as animated features. Farmer Giles of Ham done under the right producing/directing team at Disney could be one very fun movie to watch (they can borrow the drawing style of Pauline Baynes, the original illustrator of the book) and Mr. Bliss is almost perfect as a Pixar feature. How about it, folks? :-)

    (P.S. I know Tolkien back in the 1950's had qualms about Disney animation, but Disney has shown since 1995 they can go with very different drawing styles successfully, styles that he probably would have approved.)

  31. Mod parent down by Pall+Agamemnides · · Score: 2, Funny

    -1 torog (i.e. "troll")