Wolfenstein Xbox Map - Downloaded Or Unlocked?

Thanks to EvilAvatar for pointing to a Boomtown.net article discussing whether the new Xbox Live-exclusive Return To Castle Wolfenstein maps released a couple of days ago were actually downloaded. It seems the size of the files downloaded from Xbox Live were way too small to have been an actual level, despite the official press release indicating it was a "downloadable map", so it's possible the maps were on the game disc all along, and all that was downloaded was an 'unlock levels' message. The Boomtown article puts its own spin on this: "Providing these levels as a sweetener for Live Subscribers would be all very well, if extra development - over and above that of the game itself - is involved. But if the levels are already developed and present on the disk, then the publishers are inviting flak from the many Xbox gamers who don't have broadband."

Comments

Invite to hacking

[Torgo's Pizza]

This is just a plain invitation to hacking if I ever saw one. Any bets on how long it will take to figure out a way to "patch" the game to unlock the levels already on disk (assuming this is true)? Even better yet, if there are already levels hiding on the game disc, will it take very long to figure out a way to "unlock" these extra levels?

Re:Invite to hacking

[Mike Mentalist]

I know someone who has 'looked' at the disc already, and he says that it looks like there are at least two more maps on the disc - one of which is called 'Safe'.

Hell with 'downloadable content' like this, even the hard drive-less PS2 can compete...!

Re:Invite to hacking

[amuro98]

By "new playstation" do you mean the PSX?

The PSX does contain a HD, but its primary purpose is to act as a PVR. It is not known if the PSX's HD will be able to be used by PS2 games, or if you'll have to purchase a second HD (the "offical" PS2 HD), or if PS2 HD games (like FFXI) will even work on this unit.

Furthermore, the PSX seems aimmed at the A/V market by being a DVD recorder with a built-in PVR that also happens to play PS2 games.

Although I have no doubt that the PS3 will launch with a built-in HD.

Anybody else feel like..

[NanoGator]

... this is just another blatant tar and feathering for MS? I might have taken this article more seriously if it was made out like the game felt incomplete without those levels.

Sorry, no sympathy here. Non XBOX-Live subscribers wouldn't have gotten the levels anyway if the maps weren't on the disc. Pardon them for saving you the download time.

Re:Anybody else feel like..

[Anonvmous Coward]

"I think the point was that Microsoft is misrepresenting this as a "feature" when in reality all you're doing is downloading a code that lets you access the levels that are already on your disc."

Assuming that MS (actually this'd be Activision) never ever makes a downloadable map, then I'd say you're right. However, it's really not that clear. 8 blocks (roughly 128k, if I did my math right. Corrections appreciated.) is a LOT of information to say "okay, unlock this map."

So what can be stored there? Well, I have Lightwave running right now. I made a mesh with 10,000 polygons, saved it, and zipped it up with Winzip. I got a 130k file with 10,000 polygons in it. I'm not sure how many polygons are in a map, but it strikes me that 10,000 could define a pretty decent level. Now that's just Lightwave's format. I imagine game meshes would have an even slimmer format.

Okay, so we've got enough polygons to play with. What about the rest? Why couldn't the textures etc be on the disc? You don't need megs and megs of space to create a map. It's not in the XBOX's best interests when they have 8 meg memory cards to splurge on large map download.

Personally, I think they did download the levels. The comparison between the size of a map and a save game is not apples to oranges, especially if the game reserves a number blocks so that it always has n save game slots available.

Unlockables vs New Content

[MBCook]

There is a big difference between Unlockables and New Content. I don't think they would be getting any heat if they has simply said "Plus new level(s) will be unlockable with X-Box Live!", instead of saying that it was brand new and downloaded. If you make unlockables, you should make a way for people w/o X-Box live (like those w/o broadband) to get them. You should be able to go to a website to get a password, send in a postcard, or have some special code that you enter at the main menu that gets published in game magazines when they announce that a new level can be downloaded. Now in this case it seems a bit pointless to release a multiplayer map to people who in all likely hood don't play multiplayer nearly as much as those who have X-Box Live. But if it was something like The Sims and they had furniture that couldn't be unlocked, I could see a big fuss over that.

Still, none if this would happen if there were just clear up front. Now if they DO start to make levels that are ACTUALLY DOWNLOADED then that's fine with me too.

PS: All of this is on the assumption that it's not downloaded, because if it is then this whole argument is moot since the article is moot.

Re:Unlockables vs New Content

[Guppy06]

"If you make unlockables, you should make a way for people w/o X-Box live (like those w/o broadband) to get them."

I'm a little torn myself. One of their competitors (and my personal favorite), Nintendo, has games with "unlockables" that involve plugging in a Game Boy Advance, sometimes with an associated GBA game. While I of course have a GBA, I'm sure there are people out there that have a GCN but no GBA (probably similar to the number of people who own a Virtual Boy, but bear with me) that aren't able to, say, play the original Metroid game in Metroid Prime. The packaging doesn't announce this (simply a vague reference to "links to Metroid Fusion"), and so it's also possible to buy Metroid Prime without knowing this, but should Nintendo really make it possible to unlock GCN game features without a GBA?

Part of me wants to say that the customer more or less knew what he was getting into when he bought the product. And the game is complete and useable in and of itself without this "bonus" map. Should the publishers be obligated to their customers that don't spend the extra money on other products to unlock these features? Should Devastator only have been sold as a set instead of six individual Constructicons with an "unlockable feature?"

Right now I'm leaning towards letting Xbox players have this without broadband, but only because there's a difference between being able to buy a GBA/Transformers/etc. and being able to buy broadband.

Re:Unlockables vs New Content

[Anonvmous Coward]

"PS: All of this is on the assumption that it's not downloaded, because if it is then this whole argument is moot since the article is moot."

I find it interesting that they're assuming that a small file = no game content. Textures are the memory hogs, not the mesh of the map. The textures were probably on the disc and they just sent down the vertices. 128k can hold a LOT of vertex co-ordinates. Gee, imagine them trying to keep map sizes small so you could easily transmit them over the internet and store them on small memory cards. 128k, though, is a lot of characters to say "okay, you can play this map."

Maybe it was a patch needed to run the maps...

[seigniory]

Just like /. to go off and assume the worst.

Maybe the maps were buggy and to save d/l time they put the incomplete maps on the disc, and the patches to the map on XBox Live.

XBL is still a fantastic service. The fact that MS runs it should in no way detract from that.

Dreamcast did the same thing

[ragingmime]

I remember Sonic Adventure 2 for Dreamcast doing the same thing... there were costumes and menu themes that you could unlock by downloading files from the game's website, but each file was only 1k and so they must've been just "unlock this" messages. I think there were some new go-kart courses that you could download, too, but those weren't actually included with the game... you really did download those. Granted, there's a lot more space on the Xbox's hard drive than there is on a Dreamcast VMU... Sega at least had an excuse to offer files like that.

Re:What's the problem?

[mythr]

...but... but... please, think about those poor 56kers!? Why shouldn't they be able to unlock it too? ;)

I'm with you on this one, man. Though I'd normally take any opportunity to tar and feather Microsoft and its affiliates, this is hardly newsworthy. The fact is that most were more than satisfied without these extra levels, and are just looking for a reason to be the martyr o' the day.

Re:What's the problem?

[Guppy06]

"This is called an incentive- yes, an incentive to get you to spend your money on XBox Live."

But you're lumping the people who won't spend the money on Xbox Live with the people who can't spend money on Xbox Live. Why should the people who happen to live too far away from their ISP be marginalized?

reminds me of something else

[Frac]

"But if the levels are already developed and present on the disk, then the publishers are inviting flak from the many Xbox gamers who don't have broadband."

Kinda like getting the "early peek" of unpublished news if you're a slashdot subscriber?

Christ, deal with it - you pay extra for Xbox live, you're rewarded with extra levels. You pay for slashdot subscription, you're rewarded with banner-free pages and early peeks of articles. Same difference!

Re:What's the problem?

[August_zero]

I think what gets people mad about this, is the fact that the "downloadable" content schtick that MS assured everybody would be a primary focus for x-box live content is continuing to disappoint.

When you promise people "new levels", if they have x-box live and then those "new levels" turned out to be on the disk in the first place, this angers people. You can liken it to getting a "super-sized" meal at mcdonald's only to find that the extra fries were hidden in a false bottom in the fry box all along.

Been there, almost tried that

[Chelloveck]

Back a few years now, when I worked for a company programming console games, someone suggested that we make a game with add-on capabilities. As I recall, it was going to be a PlayStation game in which you could build your own monsters. The add-ons were to be new monsters and monster parts. We had to come up with a way to distribute the add-ons. One idea was to store them on memory cards. Another was to put them in the main game, and only distribute the unlock codes on the cards.

I'd argued against the unlock codes. I figured that players would be pissed when they found out that all the "add-on" parts were on the disc that they had already paid for, but were locked away until they paid extra for a key. Actually buying new content is psychologically different from paying again to unlock something you already have, even if the end result is the same. For example, how many of you would have felt cheated if, say, C&C had had expansion maps on the main disc which you had to buy an unlock code for? But how many of you happily plunked down another $25 each for the expansion packs?

The monster game was never made, but I'm happy to see that at least some gamers feel cheated, just as I'd predicted.