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Ageism in IT?
Embedded Geek writes "It's hardly a new topic, but BBC is running a story about ageism hitting Gen-X, especially in IT. As a 34 year old coder, I was horrified to hear a quote from a *hiring manager*: 'In the IT sector (and coding in particular) younger minds generally work faster -- I would rather employ a keen teenager who code programs computers quickly than an older person.' It didn't help that the person is 32 years old. My kneejerk reaction, the same one anyone else over 30 would have, is that the guy is a buffoon (I'll withhold my preferred, spectacularly vulgar, term). The problem is that I do not believe his idiocy is unique - I have definitely felt the vibe when interviewing. It's frustrating, since Gen-X is finally shedding the media hyped 'slacker' stereotype only to run headlong into this garbage. Have any other Slashdot readers seen this? What is the youngest you can be before some PHB declares you fit for the scrap-heap? Other than stocking up on hair dye and botox, what steps can I take to prepare for the future? Share your war stories here." Ask Slashdot handled this topic over two years ago. Of course, this behavior could be explained away as economic concerns, as the decision to hire younger (and typically cheaper) employees can directly affect the bottom line. However, one has to wonder if the decision to go with less experienced programmers also affects software quality, in the long run. What are your thoughts on this subject?
Sacrifice quality for cheaper and faster - in the dot com sector yes, but not everywhere.
Certain jobs will always have ageism. Dot Coms - change and evolve too fast for many people to stay in date. Therefore a younger person may be able to do many things better than an old one. Experience has shown me that those are jobs that have a constant change (where ageism is) - for example, the web, TV shows (what shows beside soap operas and the simpsons have really long lives?) and what not.
Jobs such as programming code for the Dep. of Defense, programming code for mirror making systems at Honeywell Corp. and managing a sat. network - experience and degree are always more valued (and sometimes required). Ageism is not a threat - it is a sign of a normal healthy economy. People at age 40 should have a STABLE job (unless they can live with the risk that it will be harder to find work), not work for an internet startup that dies every 2 months (at least find a stable website - those that are stable, probably will be willing to take exp. over age).
Anyhow - nothing new here, ageism has been, always will be and probably will not go away for long time, regardless of money - startup's (companies) will always pick cheap while long standing is far more willing to higher for a long run.
(sidenote: A friend of mine works for Honeywell Corp. - He is almost 50 and has no problems with ageism - they even pay him to go back to school ever so often to stay up to date).
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
I was RIF'd in May 2001 just after the dot-bomb collapse, and was unable to even secure an interview. In the two years that followed, I netted only two interviews although I have over twenty years in programming. I know this had a lot to do with my age, since it was communicated to me through recruiters and other sources that longevity in the field directly translates into dollars. They see that hiring younger necessarilly means hiring cheaper.
Read the paper - it's all in there.
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
Being an Engineer, not an IT person, I would have to say that the IT industry should take a look at other engineering disciplines. If you ever go into a shop where the older engineers are gone, and you have only young ones, run. As you get older, you learn more, and have more experience. What this buys you is that you'll see more of the faults in a particular design alot quicker than a newbie, and you'll probably have a solution quicker.
The older guys are around for a reason. They know their shit. You take that away, and who do the new people learn from? Their own mistakes, that's who, and in the mean time you get bug filled, problematic code.
but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong....
--Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time
I'm 33 and I earn a living fixing and redoing the mad, coding of a prolific 20-something who learned how to code on the job. The young get in, get their money, get out, and leave the mess for us "older folk" to clean up. Young coders = job security for experienced coders.
I was hoping somebody knew that. Most indigenous musics of Africa are semi-toned, having roughtly twice as many subdivisions (more or less, depending on where you go) to the octave. This was half of the magical equation that gave us Jazz and Blues. The other half was Latin and European instruments being made available to African Americans who still knew the modes of the homeland, having passed several generations of slaves and to freedmen. The end of the Civil War saw the breakup of many a military band and suddenly these instruments were available in abundance and cheap.
At the same time they were being taught the songs of the homeland, these African Americans were also being exposed to European music and tonalities in the plantation parlors. When they got their hands on these instruments only designed for twelve-tone octaves, they mimicked the twelve-tone counterpoints they had heard in the parlors. But soon, they began commonly using adjacent half-step tones in interesting places not suggested readily by stacking thirds. On instruments a little less "well-tempered", the use of slurs or bends between these same points in the scales became prevalent. They were trying to play the in-between notes they remembered on instruments that were never meant to make them! This somewhat discordant (to the unaccustomed ear) sound became a staple in popular music and has dominated genre after genre ever since.
Can I bum a sig? I left mine at the office.
Tony Williams was drumming for Miles Davis at age 17. Jason Marsalis was a recording jazz drummer at 14.