Slashdot Mirror
Storing Pictures While Backpack Travelling?
"He hasn't yet purchased a digital camera, so any camera or convergence device to be available in the next 6 months is fair game.
We've thought of a few scenarios. Bringing along a ton of CF cards is neither cheap nor reliable -- suppose the media gets lost or damaged. An ideal solution might involve being able to mail media home, while still having a copy 'on the road' in case that media gets lost in the mail.
And isn't it about time we see consumer devices with support for firewire drives, such as the iPod? I envision a digital camera that can talk (and backup) to an iPod -- this would be more than enough storage in a 15gb model, and small enough to take backpacking painlessly. However, the new models feature a proprietary dock connector, which makes one the iPod's old great advantages -- charge from any firewire port! -- a thing of the past.
A camera that burns images to a CD would be nice, but only if the CD was secondary storage -- ie, save pictures to internal buffer, burn to N CDs, erase internal buffer. This would allow the easy creation of duplicates, but might require a lot of CDs.
How would you plan your gadgets, given 6 more months of advancement of new technology (and price-cuts on old tech)? There's a whole lot of neat camera-ready devices coming about about now, so there could be quite a few creative ideas. Winning solution is the simplest and most portable."
Here's a list of DIGITAL CAMERA ACC-Stand Alone Data Storage devices from B&H.
You don't want firewall, most cameras do the USB 2.0 thing.
In addition to storing pictures, many of these Devices are MP3 players as well. 10,20,30 even 60 gig drives with rechargable batteries..etc.
have fun.
-malakai
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
The problem with stuff that is "just about ready to come out" is that you never know the quality or durability of something that has just come out. Going with an established product, especially when your friend will be away from civilization for considerable stretches of time, is what I recommend.
While buying a lot of CF cards is not a great solution, it doesn't have to be too expensive. 10 256MB Sandisk CF cards will run you approx $650. That would store approximately 3500-4000 images - based on how I use my Canon Powershot A40 camera in "Fine" (medium lossy) format.
10,000 images is, in my opinion, somewhat unlikely to occur. Sure, you can take 10,000 pictures. But 9,000 of them are probably going to suck. Maybe just 8,000. Thus the bane and beauty of a digital camera. You can instantly review a picture or simply review the whole lot later, on your down time. Backpacking should have it's share of down time, unless he's pushing pretty hard.
Additionally, CF cards are very, very hardy. My 64MB Sandisk CF card spent 30 minutes at the bottom of a river when I dropped my camera. The card - and pictures - were perfectly ok after recovery.
Your friend will also want to pick up some hearty rechargable batteries - I suggest the new PowerEX 2000mAh NiMH batteries in conjunction with the Maha C401FS rapid, 100-minute charger. Your friend may also want to consider picking up a flexible solar panel to charge stuff while "on the road".
Lastly, camera-wise, I personally recommend the Canon Powershot A40. It can be had for about $200 now. It is "just" a 2 megapixel camera. However, the output is very nice for consumer level camera.
Exocet Industries - Taking over the world, one computer at a
Actually a lot of it depends on the resolution he wants to capture. At a fairly low resolution (640x480, encoded as average quality .jpg files) he could capture 8,000 pictures on a single 512M CF card. Even 1MP high quality .jpg files from my Kodak DC210+ (fairly older 1MegaPixel camera) run about 200k per picture, so with four 512M CF cards he would still be able to capture 10,000 pictures of with this camera set to max quality.
512M CF cards cost +/- $100 apiece, maybe a little more, so he could hold 10,000 one megapixel pictures on about $500 in media. CF seems pretty indestructable, if he keeps it on his person (in his pocket or whatever) I guarantee it will survive way more than he can. He can also get a cheap $20 adapter to pop the CF card into a PCMCIA slot on a laptop, so with even a little luck he will find someone with a laptop that can burn him CDs for a couple of dollars, somewhere in his travels.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Pick up a couple of MicroDrives. These are the ~1GB hard drives that fit in some CF slots. Drop one in the mail every few weeks to you or someone, and be done with it.
There's also the possiblity of using a film camera. Film should be available everywhere, and it's much safer to mail back home. Digital isn't always the answer (OTOH, I just bought my first digital camera today:)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
-Sure, you can take 10,000 pictures. But 9,000 of them are probably going to suck.
Actually this is the best part about digital photography. Want a good picture? Take ten pictures of the subject and then pick the one(s) you like the best. With regular cameras this just isn't cost (or time) effective as you have to wait for prints, then wait for reprints, etc... but on a digital you can pop the CF card into your laptop to view the series and pick the good ones, then delete the stuff you do not like - doing this a few times throughout the trip will help reclaim 80% of the CF capacity if necessary. Of course if you have access to a laptop with a CDR, burn the entire CF off to CD and send it home in a mailer, make another copy for your backpack.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Depending on just how serious you are about being without power for that long a period you may really need to consider an all-out power consumption analysis, as well as other more conventional factors.
;-)
One thing that I really noticed was your thought about writing CDs, which consumes a non-trivial amount of battery power.
I personally know almost nothing about how much power it takes to take one picture, or write 256MB onto a compact flash, or run a laptop, but you might need to find out. Batteries are heavy and basically dead weight (no value beyond their storage capacity), so you will want to minimize what you need to carry. Coming up with a fancy solution that requires thirty pounds of batteries to run for a week without contact with civilization is probably not useful. Also, you may get into trouble if you need fifty hours to recharge your battery set.
Just a meta-thought.
Our friends generally take their laptops with them, and send files back when they get near places with ISP's or hotspots. Of course, they work while they are out, so the option of carrying a laptop might not appeal to him.
You'd be surprised how backwater most of the world isn't. Power may not be guarenteed, but he should find something wherever he finds somewhere to sleep. Likewise, as most people out there don't have their own computers, there are likely to be affordable internet cafes he will bump into. He should use these as an opportunity to back up his data to a server you are monitering.
On the flip side, mail is *never* a good idea. It might make it, it might not. Usually it doesn't.
Technologically, USB 2.1 devices should be out soon, which allow for device-to-device communication. Unfortunately, firewire and USB 1.0/2.0 are both client-server models... Which is the server, the camera or MP3 player? Which charges which?
Likewise, Sony makes a Mini-CDR burning camera, but they're just huge. 100 Mini CDR's can be had at Microcenter for 40 bucks, though, and should be enough space for 10,000 images. If he was intending to take a 5MP SLR with 14x optical zoom anyway, this might be a good option.
HDD external storage is a bit risky because of the dangers to the device, but it may be your best option. Just remember to backup whenever you bump into an internet cafe.
One last thing: Battery life. If he's genuinely worried about the availability of power, he should consider making a custom battery pack based on AA rechargables. That way, if the only place around is a convienience/gas station he can still power up his machine.
The ______ Agenda
with an ethernet connection (using built in port) or a pcmcia modem you could email your pictures back home whenever you can find a convienient connection. Also backs up to windows and linux and can play movies/music with its built in output ports.
All of this in a 7x3.2x1" package
Bottles.
There's this amazing new technology that have been called 'optical cameras'. The idea is an interesting one: a lense refracts light onto a piece of photosensitive material known as "film". This film can then be developed into regular pictures, with qualities far surpassing any of their digital counterparts.
In other words, get an optical camera, and mail the film to yourself. Have it developed when you get home.
found on compgeeks:
X's drive
the usb2.0 version works well with linux. the usb1.1 version doesn't (for me, at least).
put any size notebook drive in there you want.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Don't get me wrong, I love digital imaging. Fun to browse, to share, to manipulate. But I don't own a digital camera. Way too expensive for the amount of photography I do. I own several conventional cameras, and I have the lab scan everything when I get the film developed. That makes a lot more sense for what you're doing. You can get an excellent point-and-shoot autofocus camera for $100. It will store hundreds of high-resolution images on rolls of film that will be OK for months, with minimal care (temperature, avoid X-rays).
You might also consider an instant camera. The prints make excellent gifts for the people you meet. Scanning them in is a pain, but less so than losing all your images because your battery ran down or your backpack fell off the bus.
Insisting that your images be end-to-end digital smacks of technology for its own sake.
You are approaching the problem from the wrong end. You are asking; how do you support this technology under less than ideal conditions? What you should be doing is asking; how do I keep 10,000 pictures while I am on the road for a year?
The answer is low tech rather than high tech. First you need to get a good 35mm film camera. Stash 5 or ten rolls of film in your rucksack and have a good time. The next time you pass a post box, drop your exposed film in it, addressed to a friend or relative. When running low on film, pick some up in the next town. 35mm film is available in almost any town anywhere. It is also far cheaper than CF cards or self powered hard drives.
When you return home, have the film developed at your local drug store, or where ever you prefer, and check the little box requesting a CD-ROM copy of the roll or rolls. This way you have the digital format that you desire as well as a quality film picture that would require a digital camera of at least 5 megapixels to get the same quality and resolution.
This approach is also far safer from the perspective of protecting your pictures. It is entirely possible that, over the course of a year, your rucksack will be lost, abused, battered and especially soaked with rain. By regularly shipping out your pictures, the risk will only be to a few rolls of film rather than everything, as would be the case when a supersized CF card gets crushed or wet. Even if you lose the camera at some point it can be replaced with only the loss of a few rolls of film, rather than everything.
A couple of facts you seem to ignore ...
In some countries, mailing shouldn't be considered an option (Nepal, India, Africa, rural China, etc.)
It is NEVER a good idea to mail something by regular post when you really care about it, unless you are 100 % sure it won't be lost somewhere and be kept in good condition (in other words, if you trust in miracle).
Mail is scanned many times by all sort of rays, most notably X-Rays which can really screw you film if they are too powerful. You can wrap your films in aluminium paper, but then they might open the package or simply send it back (it happened to me once).
Films degrade over time. So after one year or more, I guess his oldest films won't be as good as they were. You can refrigerate them to slow the process.
Actually developping films is quite costly, especially if you want to get better prints for a number of particularly good photos. If he is serious about photography, I guess he won't go to local drugstore for that job !
Intelligence shared is intelligence squared.
When travelling, I've found it best to make extensive use of the IYH network. ( International Youth Hostels ~ www.iyhf.org ) They often have Internet access and they often have the most practical and reasonable accomadations. The fellow travellers that you'll meet at the communal kitchens are a wealth of info.
Get a good travel pack, one that is both an internal frame pack and a suitcase with wheels. Pack light, get a money belt. Never display american money on the street if possible. Beware of black market money changers. If you buy soveniers, ship them home from the country of origin. It's best to check your passport into the embassy in some countries.
As for photos, don't buy a brand new spiff camera or other flashy equipment. It's far, far better not to display any signs of affluence. You'll encounter far less problems if you dress locally (trade at used clothing stores) and blend in. You're need a good universal current adapter kit and consider web email account as the most reliable way to get the pictures home. Internet cafes abound and there's always someone who has a fairly new pc or laptop somewhere. Also try searching thru or posting to the relevant newsgroups, many travellers and professional photographers have discussed these concerns in great detail.
One last, somewhat strange piece of advice, you may also want to sew a small Canadian flag to your pack. I've had far less problems since I did.
Main rule: get down, get local, that's where it's at. Happy trails.
Words to men, as air to birds.
I've picked up an X's Drive II and have to say it is one of the best devices for the on-the-go digital photographer. With sizes up to 60 GB, and six types of digital media readers built in, you can click away, transfer and go back to clicking away withing seconds. Highly recommended.
I've long been a fan of CF, because of its high capacities and universality, which drives cost down. However, its is bulky compared to the other standards, and the multipin connector is expensive.
My most recent camera is SmartMedia (SSFDC) based, and I'm happy with it. The neat thing about the cards is that they're flat. I can tuck one into my cheek to conceal it, slobber all over it "I don't know what you're talking about officer", wipe it off, put it back into the camera, and it works flawlessly.
Doing the same thing with a CF card would result in the contact holes becoming waterlogged, and requiring compressed air to blast them out. By the way if you've never opened a CF card, grab one that you don't use any more (who needs all those 8mb starter cards that come with crappy cameras?) and rip it apart. They're pretty cool. I think I'll put photos up on my gallery, check the Tech album.
Anyway, CF's speed and size are great, but the connector is its downfall as a media format. (as an expansion slot, lots of pins are great!)
unless:
You want to wake up at 7:00am to a roll call
You want to sleep 20 to a room
You want to be overcharged
You want to have to pay for sheets.
FAR better is to find the small, indepedent ones. Look in bus/train stations for signs, ask other backpackers.
Scratch the frame pack/rollable suitcase - its going to be way too heavy, and you'll never really use the wheels. Just get a backpack.
Don't worry about dressing locally, or buying from local junkshops - there will be other obviously foreign backpackers everywhere, and unless you speak fluent, idiomatic you'll always be a foreigner.
Don't get a money belt, they're only used in James Bond movies and by kids whose parents are paranoid.
If you're hitting sketchier places, hang onto some American currency (like a 50 USD note). It's remarkable what kind of magic it can work in places when you "suddenly" have paperwork problems at immigration/customs.
Face it, you're a foreign tourist. Don't patronize the locals by pretending to be one. You'll fail at it. Don't be a rude, ugly American either. Treat people with respect, don't speak English LOUDLY AND S-L-O-W-L-Y and expect them to understand.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I don't know about you, but I've never seen web email that was happy about doing large file transfers. Assuming one only runs across an internet cafe every few weeks, one might have hundreds of megs of photos that need to be realiably sent home. No web mail is going to do that.
Plus, most internet cafes don't have flash memory readers attached to the computers, and might not be happy if you plugged in your own. The only way to use the network "as you please" would be to bring along a laptop or Terapin Mine, and plug straight into the ethernet.
Once internet access has been obtained, getting the photos somewhere is easy enough. Get an account on a friend's FTP server, and make them promise to make backups as soon as new uploads are detected.
Then you just have to cope with the speed of the connection in a foreign internet cafe. If you're supremely lucky, they might have a T1/E1 connection, but it's more likely to be quite slow. Sitting there waiting for a half gig of photos to transfer might take a sizable bite out of one's day.
Good tip about the universal current adapter. Instead of a 110-to-DC and a 220-to-110 adapter chained together, it might make more sense to order a 220-to-DC adapter. This is not only more reliable and lighter, it also makes it less obvious that you're a Yankee.
Carry a set of Lithium batteries. They weigh almost nothing, and when your NiMHs are dead with no chance to charge them for a few more days, you'll be glad you spent ten bucks on the Lithiums.
I don't understand the points you're making. Are you saying that digital cameras are less likely to get stolen than SLRs? I don't see the logic here.
Target sells Kodak ISO 400, 96 exposure film at $9/roll, or about $0.10/exposure for film. Processing the film runs about $2.25/roll, or about $0.02/exposure. A 256 MB CF card runs about $56.99, and holds about 1000 exposures (based on the space of the pics I took on vacation last week). That's about $0.005/exposure for CF, versus $0.12/exposure for film. If you go with 64 MB cards, so you can send them back home every 200 or so exposures, then you're still looking at about about $0.01/exposure. Now, remember that with digital, you can pick your best shots and reclaim the space, for another improvement of from 3:1 to 30:1, depending on the quality. I'd say the incremental cost of film is much higher than that of CF. (I omitted the battery costs here, since I don't have a lot of info to go on. If you use rechargables and have occasional access to power, you're fine.)
Besides, I'd rather have thin, light CF cards and a light digital camera than lots of bulky film and a heavy SLR.
With a digital camera they're not that much: when I bought one i noticed that I took about twice as many pics as before, if not more. Usually when I'm on a short trip (1/2 days - no storage problems) I take about 50-100 pics per day, if I'm in a good place.
Of course most of them are duplicates and when i'm home I select slight more than half of them for keeping, and maybe 3 or 4 for "public view", but I've found that the camera display is just too small to allow me to decide whether a shot is worth keeping or not.
If you're traveling in first or second world countries, I would say go digital.
Of course third world is a different matter, unless you're only traveling in big towns.
The traveller needs to decide what his/her priorities are. Personally, in my experience, which includes 6 months of backpacking the Appalachian Trail in the US in 1999 and 5 months travelling overseas in 2000 (Asia, OZ, NZ), film is the way to go. The way I travel, the less shite I carry, the happier I am. With an SLR with one 50mm lens I didn't have to worry about batteries, or power adapters or even the value of the camera. When you start humping around a new digital camera, plus battery chargers, cd burners, laptops and the like, you're spending more time guarding, packing and unpacking that crap than you do enjoying the trip.
Internet cafes are shockingly ubiquitous in other parts of the world (easily more prevalent than in the US). But I wouldn't want to rely on them to upload my photos to home; how much time do you want to spend waiting on a 28k shared connection while it tries to send a couple megs of photos home? Yeah, there's a risk to sending film home. But I didn't lose any, whether shipped home from Podunk, Tennessee or Northern Thailand. When overseas, I usually developed the film locally & shipped the prints home. Negatives are pretty small & light & easy to carry in a backpack.
The camera itself is one I bought used for a girlfriend about 10 years ago for something like $200. She later bought a better one for herself & left this one behind when moving out. Takes great pics & for a reasonable price can be replaced on the road if it gets lost or broken. I can't imagine taking a brand new $1400 digicam as one poster recommended. a) thats a huge portion of most folks travel budgets and b) if you lose it, you're potentially in a hard spot; obliged to buy another unit that works with the storage media you've invested so much money in. Or start over with another media family. 35mm film is available everywhere, doesn't require much for a battery and takes a pretty decent picture. So thats what I'll keep using.
For what its worth, I do have a digital, that cost me over twice as much as my SLR, plus batteries & charger & storage media. It works great as a point-and-shoot camera. But for travelling, I don't trust its reliability or durability. If I scratch the SLR lens, I can replace it for as little as $30, though I'd prolly spend more like $60 for something at least half way decent. On a digital camera, what's it going to cost to fix that? They're certainly cool & serve a purpose, I just think a person talking about such an extended trip ought to consider all the ramifications of their decision.
To summarize:
There're other factors worth considering too, posted by other folks. This isn't an issue where one solution is perfect for everyone; do what you want. I know what works for me.