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Europe, Free Speech, And The Internet

drdale writes "Declan McCullagh responds at CNET.com to a proposal by the Council of Europe to require Internet sites to publish replies by individuals whom the sites criticize. This would apply to all web sites, apparently, including blogs. Per McCullagh, the Council's proposals do not have the force of law, but often serve as the basis for new laws." Imagine the chilling effect if McCullagh's own politechbot and similar sites had to follow such rules.

10 of 341 comments (clear)

  1. Definitely! by dex22 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think Slashdot in particular would benefit a LOT from having a right to reply.
    Oh, wait! :o)

  2. Seen it in action... by mgcsinc · · Score: 5, Insightful


    I commented this late in the very-similar post from the other day, but I figured it was worth it again, now that this is recieving more attention.

    The print incarnation of this rule has long been in force in Belgium, and it was funny, the local english-speaking magazine had to print a response by what is considered here to be a radical right-wing group (the Vlamms-Blok, more harmless than moderate republicans in the US, if you ask me); they printed the response, along with several articles sorrounding it (literally, on the page) about the introduction and severe abuse of the laws which mandate it, hence completely invalidating the response piece. They weren't even obligated to allow a re-response, it was great.

    My real question is, though, how can something as widely defined as European online communication be expected to produce cases which can actually be enforced in court. What's to prevent me from using a US blogsite, or host my site on US servers? Nothing. There's nothing like Eurocrats speanding hideous quantities of time and money on something which proves useless by sheer virtue of its unenforcability.

  3. Why chilling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why would this have a chilling effect? It just ensures the powerfull and rich people can't bash and blaim poor people, without giving them a chance to defend themselve. Journalists have way too much power, and that power should be regulated so it isn't abused.

    1. Re:Why chilling? by davecb · · Score: 4, Interesting
      And the right of reply is something that makes it safe to make critical comments in email or news. Because the person/organization can reply, they can't go to a court and say "they slandered me and won't let me defend myself, so make them give me money".

      Of course, that's mostly useful in non-litigatious countries (;-))

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  4. Anonymous Coward is a fool by danormsby · · Score: 5, Funny
    Anonymous Coward is a fool.

    In accordance with European law Anonymous Coward may reply to this comment.

    --
    Omnis amans amens
  5. imagine the chilling effect... by 73939133 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine the chilling effect if companies can sue your for billions of dollars in damages if you say something bad about their trademark. All it might take is a single letter to scare you into taking down your entire web site. Of course, we already have that in the US.

    The European proposal seems to amount to "if you are a news site (commercial or non-commercial), you have to put in a link to the person/company you write about if they ask you to". I fail to see the "chilling effect" in that. It seems to be a matter of simple journalistic ethics to do that anyway.

    If we could eliminate product libel and many forms of trademark infringement lawsuits that have cropped up around web sites through such a simple requirement in the US, I think we should adopt it, too: it would seem to be a great way of ensuring that people can exercise their right to free speech without fear of being sued out of everything they own.

  6. Re:That's a good thing! by reverse+flow+reactor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree. What are you afraid of? A healthy debate? This law should do nothing to prevent people from publish what they already are. What it will do is force them to do a little more research about what they are writing.

    If you are writing well researched material, then your opponent must reply in kind. If you are writing unresearched, knee-jerking, reactionary garbage and didn't set your facts right, then maybe you have something to worry about.

    Think of it this way: What if Microsoft wrote a terrible review of a Linux filesystem with obvious errors. The right of reply would allow the coder responsible to send in a reply that said "actually, we do have that feature. It is in the code, lines 789-1245. It works. It has worked for several years now, and we have a mailing list full of responses to prove it." This is good.

    What this law does (or what it intends to do, and I hope that the law is not bent to other purposes) is level the playing field. Microsoft can try and publish a slander paper on Red Hat, but Red Hat can refute the charges just like Microsoft can refute something that Red Hat says about Microsoft.

    What this forces people to write more about the strengths of the idea that they are proposing and less about the weaknesses of someone else's idea. It is easy to be a critic. It takes a lot more thought to come up with a better idea. But better ideas change the word and negative comments take it nowhere.

    The right of reply can be very good. Far too many stories are one-sided. Some of the best journalism I have ever read involved a newspaper committing half of a page to one side of an issue and the other half to the opposite issue. That format forced the reading to really THINK about the issue.

    Please reply with your well-researched and insightful comments. They may be contrary to mine, but if they are insightful, then I am listening.

    --

    The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them. -Einstein

  7. Re:Internet should be the cure, not the disease by Doctor+Hu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This legislation is really silly. Even if this was ever needed in the past it was because the cost of publishing was a barrier to entry, so if a newspaper slagged you the cost to refute them would be too high to ever get your voice heard. However the beauty of internet is that the cost of entry is almost non-existent. After all, I'm spouting my opinions right here and now and it didn't cost me a penny.
    You've correctly identified the reason that right-to-reply has been mandated in quite a few nations in Europe: to provide a balance against negative commentary in major media outlets which the individuals or organisations affected would otherwise not have the resources to obtain. The Internet doesn't invalidate this concept. As you correctly say, we are currently spouting our opinions right here. You may want to consider the likelihood that doing so would be likely to change the opinion of Joe Sixpack about us if he were to read an op-ed piece in <insert name of your most influencial gutter-press imprint> asserting that we're terrorists/ unamericans/ liberals/ whatever.

    The point about right of reply in this context is that it gets to the same people who saw the original piece.

    Unless the legislation is written truely clumsily, it shouldn't be a big problem. Or unless you're under US jurisdiction - but then, as Mark Twain once commented in another context, I repeat myself.

  8. Re:I think the US doesn't get it! by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Politicians and media in the US live in a free haven from public backlash.

    Tell this to Trent Lott and Howell Raines.

  9. The Suspended Diary of Samuel Pepys by geekotourist · · Score: 4, Funny
    From the last entries of Samuel Pepys's diary:

    May 27 1669 This morning, before I went to the office, Nick the servant of Mr. Scobell came requesting that I correct what I said of him and link to his version of events. Staid past noon so to make this correction: "Mr. Scobell says that Parliament merely misunderstood how it was writ that Parliament was dissolved and that Mr. Scobell was not in danger of being arrested and you may find his version at Desk.Mr.Scobell.KingStreetByHayMarket.London." Thence to the office. Dined with my cosin which was very good; only the venison pasty was palpable beef. Then to home and to bed.

    May 28 1669 To my office till noon. Intended to meet with Mr. Harper to drink and eat, for I had not eaten earlier. But hither my cosin comes to complain and ask that I write this correction "That I shall say that my cosin does buy his meat from fyne butchers and that he would not mix venisin with beef" and you may find his writings at Diary.ThomasPepys.LeftPocket-TheGreenCoat.London. Unable to meet Mr. Harper. Drank two cups of Metheglin instead. Then to bed.

    May 29 1669 Up in the morning and I was to go to King's Crossing to collect my salary so I can pay my landlord before he gets apoplectic. But Mr. Cook came angrily to correct me about what I wrote of him so let me write "Mr. Cook did not 'Rail' or otherwise speak in any but a rational way when confronting Mr. Pepys about if Mr. Pepys was after my job." and you may find his statement at MrCook.DiaryLibrary.BehindTheSwan.CrookedLane.Lond on.

    Again I was to leave and hither comes the servant of my Lord Chesterfield with a note that "Lord Chesterfield wishes to correct Mr. Pepys and requests him to link to Chesterfield's account of the duel. To whit: Chesterfield did not 'flee' but merely had an important meeting the next day in Holland." I then was to go to my brothers but in comes Mr. Cook to say "You must tell them I was not angry when I spake with you this morning." And you may find his words at MrCook.DiaryLibrary.EtcEtcEtc. And then to bed.

    May 30 1669 I lay in bed intending to practice my lute, but then came three servants of three men each telling me to correct what I did write of their employers. I spent until 3 O'clock fixing my writings. Then to King's Crossing but just as I started Mrs. Jewel accosted me to say I wrote badly of her in that "She was not drunk and even if she did drink she still sings better than anyone else in the Tavern" and I should link to her diary which I do not know the location but you may search at DiariesOfDrunkenLadies I am sure. Drank three cups of Metheglin and then to bed.

    May 31 1669 This morning comes a pounding on my door from both my landlord and John the Tavern owner ordering that I tell you their versions of what I had writ so "the landlord is not apoplectic" and "All singers at the tavern sing like the nightingale". Spent the afternoon hiding from Mrs. Jewel. And now I shall stop the keeping of my journal, I being not able to do it any longer, having done so much corrections and additions every time I take a pen in my hand I do not have time for my own words. And so to bed.