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PDD, Asperger, and Geek Syndrome?
brainWaves asks "Recently I found out I have some Pervasive Developmental Disorders, especially Asperger disorder or a 'PDD-Not Otherwise Specified' (PDD-NOS). Doing some research on the web pointed me to some Wired pages, like the Autism-Spectrum Quotient, or AQ (where I scored 35, average being about 16). At the end of the test, there is a link to a 6 pages article entitled The Geek Syndrome which basically discusses the Asperger Syndrome, relating it to geeks. The article is somewhat old, but in a recent news, autism in California has increased 100%. Do 'geeks' have a higher tendency toward conditions like PDD/Asperger? I saw a lot of me in the Wired article, and was wondering if others on Slashdot have the same problem in their life, or if they have been diagnosed with a PDD?" Note that Asperger Syndrome is not the same as ADHD but methods useful for coping with one may be useful in coping with the other. Also, please don't take an internet test seriously when attempting to diagnose any kind of mental instability. Instead, if you are worried about such results, share them with your family doctor.
My roomates and I took that test in Wired a while back(I have a subscription). They scored between 20-25, I scored a 32.
I think the test can help show autistic people(or those with asperger's syndrome), but I think it shows too many false positives. I'm a relatively social person, I live a pretty normal life, I'm just known as 'the geek' in my circle of friends.
I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
I just took the test and scored 40 - yes I know that this is only a simple test etc etc however it does not surprise me as every test of that nature I take gives similar results.
.. and so on. I was always abysmally bad as reading social situations, and as a result was bullied a lot at school.
I believe that I have "Asperger's" which is a conclusion I came to this year after it was reported on in the press prompting me to carry out my own research - yes I am very aware of the self diagnosis thing, however it was one of those things that just explained everything. My directness (rudeness), my obsession with computers which I have had since childhood (my childhood memories include a lot of "FOR $%@%$'s SAKE WILL YOU STFU ABOUT COMPUTERS!!").
It's not all bad though - I get some extra abilities like the ability to remember every password and bank account number I've ever had, and once learned, I can play rather complicated Bach pieces (which naturally I can see patterns in..) on my piano from memory. I can also simply listen to any piece of music and play it.
I definitely identify with Aspergers, but I wouldn't want a formal diagnosis in case I end up with any problems as a result. For example, it I get classified as autistic, I believe UK law prevents people with autism from inheriting.
Instead, if you are worried about such results, share them with your family doctor.
Family doctors are generalists and are not qualified to answer specific psychiatric questions or, really, specific questions of most any kind.
I'd trust a doctor to provide misdiagnoses at least as frequently as correct ones. Doctors also have financial conflicts of interest that lessen their ability to provide honest opinions. Sometimes, especially at nursing homes, doctors will kill off less profitable patients, just because.
Now, I certainly do go for an annual physical, to the dentist, etc., but this article and the one about ADD, recently, just reinforce--irreponsibly--the notion that there are diseases where there usually aren't ones, that people should see doctors unnecessarily, and that people should consider prescription drugs needlessly.
People genuinely affected by this PDD and ADD stuff, in truth, are very few and far between. Most of you, believe it or not, are normal, plus or minus a little.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
2) Not to dismiss anyone's problems, but to offer perspective -- paying attention is HARD. Getting along with other people is HARD. Understanding people is HARD. Having relationships is HARD. They're hard for all of us and require a lot of work. Calling yourself a "geek" doesn't let you off the hook.
(Oh, and I got a 20 on the test. If being able to remember phone numbers and birthdays is a disease, I'm the picture of health.)
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I scored a 40, which would be consistent with my Myers-Briggs personality type - INTP(introverted, intuitive, thinking, perceiving). It would seem this "tool", if you could even call it that, is biased against particular personality types. I certainly wouldn't consider my personality type to be a disorder. ;) You might actually find more relevance in taking the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Inventory).
FWIW, that's totally backwards. The question is if people with slightly different ways of thinking tend towards becoming geeks because of aptitude, etc. (Looking at it the other way might be an interesting sociological experiment w/r to diganosis, but it's certainly not the main question).
Sorry if that's nitpicking, but people getting hypothesis backwards like this is way too common in pop-science.
G
I work with a few students diagnosed as suffering from Asperger's Syndrome.
If you suffered from it, more than likely you would know it by now. The symptoms are not as obvious as autism, but they are not far off. The students I have dealt with were all diagnosed in early to mid childhood.
I have seen Asperger's described as a "workable form of autism." I would agree that is pretty close to the mark. Note that the people that suffer from this have to work to do a lot of tasks you and I probably see as normal.
Note also that most DSM diagnoses require the patient to have lifestyle problems as a result of certain mental problems. "Depression" is not DSM diagnosable until you start getting into problems where you do not do previously pleasurable activites and so on. If you feel sad but do not let it get in the way, it is not diagnosible. What that means is that a condition that does not manifest itself as hinderance from a "normal lifestyle" is not valid reasoning for a diagnosis.
This is a long way of saying that if you are living a relaticely healthy life right now, you are not going to be diagnosed as sufferring from "Asperger's Syndrome". I find that people that seek things out like that most of the time do it to brag about, or use an excuse for other problems (laziness, not wanting to socialize, etc.) If you were having actual socialization problems on the level of Asperger's, you would have seeked out professional help a long time ago.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
I personally find A Portrait of J. Random Hacker by Eric Raymond, especially the part entitled Weaknesses of the Hacker Personality, very interesting. A Portrait of the Hacker as a Young Man, from Free as in Freedom by Sam Williams is also certainly worth suggesting. Most of people don't know that, but Richard Stallman, the author of GNU, considers himself afflicted, to some degree, by autism, which makes it difficult for him to interact with people. I can honestly say I understand him.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
But,
"Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher." != "If you score 32 or higher, you are eighty percent likely to be autistic."
Just a thought before you run out and take the test.
John
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. jya.com/ap.htm
I've done a lot of research on the whole spectrum autism area recently. (By way of background, I've worked in the medical field for some years - I've authored papers, run clinical trials, and so forth).
Here's a short synopsis of what I've found, through reading journal articles and books, and interviewing psychologists:
Autism is a real disease, terrible and sad. However, it is wildly overdiagnosed in youngsters.
Aspergers syndrome is probably also a real disease, related in some ways to autism. It is also wildly overdiagnosed in youngsters. It also seems to get pinned on nerds. But people with real Asperger's aren't simply nerds - they have profound and obvious problems.
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that there is an autism spectrum (beyond the narrow spectrum of those that truly have a serious, serious disease). The best evidence indicates that the "autism spectrum" is simply a speculation by a few psychologists that people who are shy and introspective are somehow related to people who have a profound problem.
PDD-NOS is an interesting diagnosis developed by the folks that are pushing the idea of a wide spectrum of autism. The diagnosis is very arbitrary - yes there are criteria, but these are very subjective. Applied to young children, it has little if any no prognostic value.
Finally, there does not seem to exist even one controlled scientific study that demonstrates that the outcomes of any of these conditions can be changed - even if they do exist. All treatments are purely speculative.
Commentary time - I know I'll get modded down, but this might actually be useful for someone:
What's interesting is that for all of the loud chatter from the spectrum autism crowd, they totally avoid doing scientific studies. They do studies, but never controlled ones, which are the basis of science and medicine.
As far as I can tell, autism and its "spectrum" have become the "next big thing" in psychology, following in the footsteps of lobotomies, electroconvulsive therapy, repressed memories, and ADHD. Like its predecessors, the "autism spectrum" has no basis in science, and will likely, over time, go the way of other medical diagnoses and procedures that are based on speculation rather than science.
What do you mean just enough to know I could finish it if I wanted to? I will finish that project I started 3 years ago, someday, unless I die first. First though I have this new project that is more important...
Seriously, yes. It is a big problem, I know several open source programs I have the smarts to contribute to, and they have the need. I just don't have the motivation to get far enough along with any of them to do make a contribution. I once got so far as to not crash when I compiled my stuff into the kernel. (never used it though, so I don't know if it would have worked. Eventially someone else did the same thing, but finished the job)
Asperger's is definitely something you can work through. However, it isn't about "controlling Asperger's." What it is is simple:
Pretending to be neurotypical.
The thing about Asperger's is that quite a lot of us, never truly understanding them neurotypical (Aspie-speak for 'normal'), learn how to bullshit our way through everyday life by emulating neurotypicals. Many young and impressionable Aspies have taken or are currently in social skills classes. I had for about 8 years. The benefits of social skills classes are, well, social skills, and more importantly (*cough*) a bunch of Aspie friends. I have a ton of friends also with Asperger's Syndrome thanks to social skills group. However, I left social skills group this year because I didn't have enough time for it since I became involved in the school plays.
Which brings me to the next thing. Yep, I'm an actor. An autistic actor. No matter how much you think that totally is not at all possible and totally completely oh-mi-god impossible, quite a few Aspies out there are in plays. Granted, I'm not that great of an actor....but.... still. My acting is kinda solid, not that vivid, but I'm better than some of the other chums there, who are neurotypical. So yep, I've been a husband over the years, kind of a deadbeat, but I still acted my part. However, I was also Professor Willard in Our Town.
Oh yeah, and did I mention that Aspies tend to go off on tangents?
First, don't take a diagnosis as being necessarily correct. Self-diagnosis is rarely accurate and autistic-related conditions are so poorly-understood that most psychs are not equipt to diagnose it properly, either.
In other words, validate any diagnosis, before trusting to it. Go to your local bookshop and check the DSM-IV - the manual psychs use for diagnosis - and verify that you meet the criteria. DON'T DO THIS FIRST! It's almost impossible for a person to not find themselves in the manual, somewhere. Remember that the DSM uses technical terms, so if you're even vaguely unsure how a term is intended to be used, check with your psych.
Second, even if you do meet all the criteria, there is an enormous overlap between different conditions, and there is also a risk of certain personality types creating the illusion of meeting a specific diagnosis. There is no easy way to tell these possibilities apart. Psychs generally do this by experimenting on you - trying different treatments, noting the reaction, and then re-moulding the diagnosis to fit the treatment that works.
IMHO, this is a hack-and-slash method, and not one I trust much. So far, though, no cause for Aspergers is known and no neurological tests exist. Given that a possible side-effect for a number of the treatments is "death", I really do strongly recommend making sure your psych knows exactly what they're doing, and that you don't isolate the first time you try these remedies.
Third, here is a short list of typical traits exhibited by Asperger people. I've tried to avoid the over-generalizing I've seen elsewhere, but this is NOT to be taken as a diagnostic tool, but rather as a quick reality-check if you and your psych disagree on a diagnosis.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
As the author of one of the writeups in the Asperger's syndrome node at E2 (look at my email and guess which one), I scored a 42.
Going through school was hell, and forced me to learn about how normal people actually work. Like you have, I know when someone's lying through their teeth. Not being able to naturally (dontcha love split infinitives?) "read" people, I learned that skill the hard way, through much trial and error, against my own will.
I've had strong interests. My special interests right now are computers and roads (roadgeeking: take a look at Gribble Nation some time). My first "obsession" was vacuum cleaners. I had to go to the janitor store every Sunday to look in the window at the vacuum cleaners. My fourth birthday cake had a Hoover on it. My next special interest was dead-ends. My dad and grandpa drove me all over town hunting out all the dead-ends. This gave way, naturally, to roadgeeking. When my grandpa got a computer (Pentium MMX 166) in April '97, when I was in fifth grade, I quickly learned everything about that machine, and became a computer nerd.
In my eyes, Asperger's is definitely not a bad thing. In fact, I'm proud I have Asperger's, and I don't want to be normal. You might be interested in this website:
The Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical, a satirical parody of how Asperger's Syndrome is looked down upon by the neurologically typical.