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Nextel Claims Trademarks On "Push To Talk" and "PTT"

Posted by timothy on from the down-with-ptt dept.

dmurawsky writes "According to an article at Forbes, Nextel announced that it had been awarded a primary trademark for the term 'PTT' and a Secondary trademark for 'Push To Talk.' Now maybe it's just me, but this term has been used in the radio world for around 60 years. I would have thought it was in the public domain by now. I wonder how Motorola or other radio manufacturers are going to take this. Here's a discussion of the topic at QRZ, an amateur radio forum." Update: 06/24 01:03 GMT by T : Thanks to reader Dan Horn for pointing out the flubbed original headline: Yes, this is about trademarks, rather than patents.

44 comments

  1. Suing the Army first ? by Tolchz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From FM 24-19
    Radio Operator's Handbook
    http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm /24-19/Glo ss.htm

    Glossary

    proword procedure word

    psi per square inch

    PTT push-to-talk

    pwr power

    qty quantity

    1. Re:Suing the Army first ? by saden1 · · Score: 1

      All these companies are out to screw each other. The question is how fast can you screw the other guy before they screw you?

      --

      -----
      One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
    2. Re:Suing the Army first ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All these companies are out to screw each other. The question is how fast can you screw the other guy before they screw you?

      Sometimes I wish they'd just go screw themselves.

  2. Not A Big Deal by Bistronaut · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is just a trademark. Not a patent. Trademarks like this are only applicable within their industry. Now, they may be some pretty silly trademarks, but they only affect how you can market you competing "push to talk" service - they don't keep you from making it in the first place.

    1. Re:Not A Big Deal by Kaeru+the+Frog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But isn't it like an ice cream company trademarking the word vanilla? Its a term that is commonly used in the telcommunications field, is it not?

    2. Re:Not A Big Deal by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 1
      Yes, but not in the cellphone field. Nextel is still the only cellphone player with a "walkie-talkie" feature, although all the others are working on it.

      I'm amazed they didn't trademark "walkie-talkie" since that's how they advertise it.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    3. Re:Not A Big Deal by stevew · · Score: 1

      But that has been the term used in the Radio industry for decades (25 years minimum that I can swear to directly - and more likely 60 years..)

      So they are trademarking it within the same area that it is already used?

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
    4. Re:Not A Big Deal by qqtortqq · · Score: 1

      The pimply faced guy at the Verizon store told me they were ready to roll out a clone of nextel's walkie talkie feature, called, you can guess- "Push To Talk." He said it was due next month, so this is some great timing by Nextel. Itll be interesting to see if it holds water.

    5. Re:Not A Big Deal by grahamm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But is cellphone not too narrow a field? I am sure that a company could not market slippers or boots and call them 'Nike' claiming that these are different fields than trainers.

  3. Editor abuse time again? by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    Headline says Nextel Patents ... but the blurb says Nextel announced that it had been awarded a primary trademark ... and a Secondary trademark ...

    Geez, guys, think you could throw in a little consistency here?

    Keerist in a teacup.

    --
    Infuriate left and right
    1. Re:Editor abuse time again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it wasn't for how low your ID was I'd say 'you must be new here'

      Instead I'll say "you're still not used to inaccurate posts that make it clear the editors never read the story?"
      (Speaking of never reading articles, anyone else remember the story about the Apple lawsuit that was posted about two years ago? At leas this isn't as embarrasing for them as that was.)

  4. Toll charges for local calls... by wolf- · · Score: 2, Informative

    We also received notice today from Nextel informing us that some folks in our local exchanges may be charged to call our nextel phones.

    Nextel claims the decision was not theirs, but the paper states that Nextel used to absorb the call termination fees. Sure sounds like their "decision" to no longer absorb the fees.

    They can't tell us who they are in a pissing contest with, but from the wording on the notice, and from the wording on the nextel customer service reps screen, I would guess it is Bellsouth.

    As for PTT and "Push to Talk" I also would have thought those terms are "common usage" terms by now.

    --
    ----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
    1. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      As for PTT and "Push to Talk" I also would have thought those terms are "common usage" terms by now.

      I'm sure I have an old crappy toy two-way somewhere around my parents' house with "push to talk" written somewhere on it.

    2. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by Micro$will · · Score: 1

      I do, but it's not a toy. It's an old beat up Realistic TRC-214 3 channel CB Walkie T with "Push to Talk" still clearly stamped on the transmit button, which is amazing since almost every other marking on it is wore off from sitting in my pile of misc electronic junk. This thing is at least 15 years old.

      I can't find the manual for that model, but here's an example. A lot of the Walkie Talkies have Push to Talk on the transmit button.

    3. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Ah, I think that this one handy-talky is probably not much for anyone to worry about.

      AFAICT, most old Radio Shack radios are Motorola products, cleverly branded Realistic or Radio Shack or Optimus or whatever.

      Meanwhile: Nextel is Motorola's own creation. Aside from creating the company itself, Motorola also makes all of the head-end equipment, phones, and whatever else they might need to go about business.

      Nextel exists merely as an avenue for Motorola to have its own, tightly-controlled cellular telephone network without pissing too much in any particular government body's Wheaties.

      Editors: Motorola, of all the potential targets for legal nonsense with these trademarks, is the last company on Earth with a reason to care.

      (Next week on Slashback: Motorola sues itself; wins and loses)

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    4. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Motorola does not "own" Nextel.. they didn't create Nextel at all. Motorola
      came up with iDEN and several carriers around the world use it. Motorola
      happens to own stock in Nextel (which they sold most of earlier this year),
      but they definately don't own or didn't create the company. I think many
      people needs to do some investigation before they make thenselves out to be
      an ass and post/say stupid things like that :-)

      The reason Nextel is all Motorola is because iDEN was made and is Patented
      by Motorola. Therefore, legally, Motorola is the only company that can make
      iDEN phones. Obviously if you created the "technology" of something, you're
      also going to be the one that makes all the hardware/software/interfaces,
      etc... right? Thus the reason why Nextel uses all Motorola equiptment.

    5. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by adolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *sigh*

      I believe that you think you're right.

      I work for one of the most successful full-line Motorola two-way radio dealers in the US. As it happens, parts of the company also work closely with Nextel service agents.

      The dirt from the chiefs who create my payroll say this: Motorola wants a cell phone network, and starts making noises about creating one. Regulatory bodies get outwardly twitchy about it. Nextel is born.

      I'd rather believe my well-informed rumors than your polished-and-pretty SEC garbage, AC.

      Thanks, though, for the opinion.

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    6. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by Saige · · Score: 1

      Nextel is not part of Motorola in any way, shape, or form. They're a cellular provider that happens to be by far the biggest customer of Motorola's iDEN cellular system, which has the push-to-talk system. Nextel's cellular system is not completely 100% Motorola - there are a few parts to the system from other companies, though I believe they are parts that Motorola does not currently make.

      Nextel's done some looking for an eventual replacement/compliment to the iDEN service, and I believe has received a number of proposals from many companies, not just Motorola, so there's no guarantee they will stay with Motorola cellular systems in the future.

      Also, there are plenty of cell providers around the world that use the iDEN system that are not Nextel - Mike in Canada, for example, and I believe there's a small provider in the south (SoLinc?) that uses it. Not to mention a number of other companies in Asia.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    7. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by DigitalJEM · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually they are going to keep the iDEN network for the direct connect from what I understand. They are only going to change the cellular side of things to possible CDMA (in the talks). So it's likely we will soon see dual-mode/tri-mode phones.

      --
      -Joshua
    8. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by DigitalJEM · · Score: 1

      There are two iDEN providers in the U.S. - Nextel and SoutherLinc. Are you telling us that Motorola wanted a cell phone network so bad that they only created one large enough to scope out part of the country, then they let some other company come in and use their technology on another part of the country? That just doesn't make any sense to me. And then there's Mike (service provider) in Canada who also uses iDEN. Does Motorola own them too? If they wanted one so badly they would have gone all the way like they're known to do, they wouldn't have only covered half the country and let someone else take the other half.

      --
      -Joshua
    9. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by Saige · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, seems possible, as the direct connect and the cellular parts of the systems are pretty distinct. They've been unclear to us about what's been happening with Nextel and their possible future cell choices. Regardless, there's plenty coming on the direct connect end for years. I have a hard time believing that other cell companies can just start offering a walkie-talkie service that has enough features to compare with iDEN, considering the amount of time it's been around, and the amount of development done on it.

      I also know there are plenty more color phones coming down the pipe, a number with cameras (seems the big thing for cell phones now), and some really nice designs. Oh, and one rather disposable-looking phone, that at least looks better than that horrid low-end thing currently out there with the little "joystick" thingy... And to believe, the first iDEN phones were about the size and shape of bricks.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    10. Re:Toll charges for local calls... by DigitalJEM · · Score: 2, Informative

      found a website you should take a look at adolf http://www.mobileinfo.com/Wireless_Networks/wirele ss_wan_esmr.htm Here we go: ""a start-up company named FleetCall aggregated the assets of several fleet dispatchers (taxi companies, construction companies and others in similar businesses) and implemented a completely new digital wireless network called Nextel. Nextel also has an equity share in Clearnet in Ontario, which has implemented a similar network in Canada. Nextel and Clearnet combined provide a coast-to-coast continental ESMR service now.""

      --
      -Joshua
  5. Another(tm) one(tm)...? by leonbrooks · · Score: 3, Funny

    Looks(tm) like(tm) someone(tm)'(tm)s(tm) got(tm) too(tm) much(tm) time(tm) on(tm) their(tm) hands(tm).

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    1. Re:Another(tm) one(tm)...? by bob_jordan · · Score: 1

      Just change it to "Push This Button To Talk - PTBTT"

      Pronounced the same as blowing a raspberry.

      Bob.

  6. Amateur Radio by tiny69 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder how the HAMs will take this. They've been using Push To Talk switches for at least 50 years (being generous for Nextel). I hope Nextel is smart when it goes after people over TM infringement. It would be really easy for a court to rule that term is generic. If Nextel does go after HAMs or those that make amatuer radios, Nextel may be surprised when they realize that HAMs can have deep pockets and are great at pooling resourses. Shit, HAMs have been building their own satellites for some time now....

    --
    Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
    1. Re:Amateur Radio by Micro$will · · Score: 2, Informative

      Shit, HAMs have been building their own satellites for some time now....

      HAMs don't need no stinking satellites, that's what the ionosphere is for. As for pooling resources, they've been chatting it up around the world before the Internet was a gleam in Al Gore's eye.

    2. Re:Amateur Radio by qqtortqq · · Score: 1

      They are going after Verizon, who claimes to be rolling out a new walkie talkie service called "Push To Talk." From what I can tell, Nextel is a decent company, and probably is just doing this to yank on verizon's hot dog.

  7. Better question by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

    Why the heck if Nextel pushing a PTT button as a feature when nowadays the $20 FRS radios at Walmart have a VOX circuit in them?

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Better question by wolf- · · Score: 1

      Because your FRS goes possibly a mile and a half, yet I can call a tech in Mississipi from Miami using a nextel radio now.

      The key is no dead air time with radios like you get with cell phones.

      Radio:
      *chirp* jim
      *chirp* yeah?
      *chirp* the ip address is blah blah blah
      *chirp* ok

      Cell:
      *ring* *ring* *ring*
      hello this is jim.
      hey jim, got that ip address for you
      excellent
      the ip address is blah blah blah

      They are rolling out their nationwide radio plan right now.

      --
      ----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
    2. Re:Better question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Is this just some kind of stupid marketing gimmick? I don't understand it. It's a f-ing cell phone call, and they are just using the buttons different. Why would I want to use my cell phone like a PTT radio? I guess it might impress the chicks. Nah. F-ing stupid.

      Sorry, I'm just sick of those stupid commercials, it's not you.

    3. Re:Better question by DigitalJEM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's so nice using DC over a standard phone for the meer reason that it cuts out so much of the BS chitter chatter :D

      --
      -Joshua
    4. Re:Better question by DigitalJEM · · Score: 2, Informative

      No. Nextel was originally a two way radio only and they ADDED cellular to it.. It is much like Private Ham radio in a way. The key here is they added cellular to their ESMR network.. They aren't adding PTT to their cellular network (like all the other carriers)

      --
      -Joshua
    5. Re:Better question by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      And that matters how? VOX circuits are dirt cheap, why don't they add one? I do realize the internal differences between NexTel and Cellular (half duplex vs full, intermittent channel usage vs fulltime channel allocation) but that is no excuse not to make the TX/RX switching automatic.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    6. Re:Better question by lostchicken · · Score: 1

      Because the PTT feature is what makes it different from a phone. If you had VOX on all the time, the phone would just always transmit every conversation you have, while the PTT allows you to use the phone like a big giant 2 way radio network. VOX tends to be useful only when you are in a quiet place and the only reason to speak is to speak into the radio. Almost nobody in Amateur Radio uses VOX. PTT gives you some control over what is heard.

      --
      -twb
    7. Re:Better question by Subnirvana337 · · Score: 1

      I've seen people use VOX even at field day for 15 meter phone...its a lot easier because that way one person can work the stations and log the contacts..not very good for a noisy place or if you want to talk to that opperator.

      PTT is just as bad at times, people sitting on their 2m microphones when they're mobile because they put the mic too close to where they're sitting. The repeater is keyed up the whole time. You can hear some intresting stuff...

      -Mike
      KD5UTQ

  8. Serious lack of thought here!! by thaWhat · · Score: 1

    My first response was 'Oh F*** off!!!' push to talk has been around almost as long as marconi. then I took a moment to think. My response was unaltered. this situation calls for some serious dark alley and baseball bat (I'm australian but the baseball bat makes a better club than a cricket bat) action. I am sick to death of this bulls**t!!! This is like someone claiming a trademark on 'press five to delete'. I repeat this is BullS**t!!!

    --
    If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb.
  9. Won't Harm Motorola by Saige · · Score: 1

    Even if they do really get to keep such a trademark, there's not a chance in hell that they'd dare deny Motorola the use of the trademark whenver they want. After all, their current cellular system, iDEN, is completely done by Motorola - and surely Nextel wants to continue to get new features for their system, right? If they get all uppity, how might Motorola start treating them?

    --
    "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  10. Umm...Military? by JoeLinux · · Score: 1

    This has been used by the military since World War II. The only thing they could have done that would be more stupid is if they had tried to patent the phrase "walkie-talkie" (incidently, a walkie-talkie was strapped to the GI's back. The hand-held unit was referred to as a "handset". Take that, Civvie!)

  11. During the day? by siskbc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    HAMs don't need no stinking satellites, that's what the ionosphere is for.

    At night, yeah. But for those who would like to bounce signals a long way during the day, satellites might be nice.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  12. Military PTT use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I'm not mistaken, nextel is trying to buy in on new projects being developed by the military. I know from experience that those two phrases are mentioned numerous times in documentation for radios made by Raytheon, Viasat, Motorolla, Harris, and others. Let's say one of those companies releases an updated tech manual on an already existent piece of equipment. Wouldn't they have to credit the trademark in the manual? I think so.
    "So while you're getting shot at, don't forget that Nextel claims ownership of the phrase you use to explain your handsets. Start calling them hand-pushy-speaky-thingies so we can't get sued for trademark infringement."

  13. PTT by sulli · · Score: 1

    Last time I checked, this referred to "Postes Telegraphs Telephones," the old name for the French postal service and phone company (now La Poste and France Telecom). It's come into common usage in the telecom industry meaning a state-owned telecom provider. I suspect La Poste and France Telecom might have something to say about this proposed trademark, since Nextel is in their business.

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  14. Or Spike Lee by yroJJory · · Score: 1

    Or like Spike Lee being granted an injunction against Spike TV for using his name for their TV brand name?

    After all, there haven't been any other "Spikes" in the history of popular culture. Certainly not Spike Jones (the musician) or Spike Jonze (the filmmaker).

    --
    Jory