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First Perl 6 Book is Out
prostoalex writes "O'Reilly Publishing presented Perl 6 Essentials, the first book to be dedicated to Perl 6, at the beginning of this month. Looking at the table of contents, it hardly looks like a valid replacement for Llama or Camel books. Chapter 1 is available online. The whole book is available to Safari subscribers." I'm sure we'll review it sooner or later.
If you knew me in person, you'd know I treat women with a great deal of respect. It just goes to show you how utterly stupid taking someone's jokes so damn seriously can be!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Perhaps some day you'll be a minority in a group of people whom your job requires you to associate with and who make a regular practice of making fun of that minority and then come to know the difference between a joke and a verbal assault.
In person, the intent and impact of a joke is tempered by other cues such that the butt of the joke can tell whether it is told "in good fun" or with intent to harass. In a forum like this one, no amount of smilies conveys those cues. The constant gay-bashing and mysogyny on slashdot are truly ugly and offensive.
Is it an accident that there are more women doctors and scientists than there are women programmers even though all three fields require technical skills? Do you feel no sense of responsibility to provide a welcoming atmosphere to encourage more women to join our field? Whether or not you consider the "jokes" funny, surely you can understand that they do not provide a welcoming atmosphere.
Imagine for a minute that you are my fifteen year old daughter surfing the net while trying to figure out what field to enter. Do you think these jokes, whatever their intent, will encourage her to become a programmer?
Perhaps some day you'll be a minority in a group of people whom your job requires you to associate with and who make a regular practice of making fun of that minority and then come to know the difference between a joke and a verbal assault.
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Dude, I'm a Muslim Indian. Don't give me any crap about being a minority. Every time an article on Slashdot comes out about programmers, you get some anti-Indian people crawling out of the woodworks. However, its quite easy to distinguish between those who are joking, and those who sound like they mean it.
In a forum like this one, no amount of smilies conveys those cues.
>>>>
A smily takes place of physically smiling while saying something. Between that, and the cues inherent to sarcastic language (from my original post --- "it's not like", and the exclamation mark) only people who can't read well should have a problem discerning a joke from a statement.
Is it an accident that there are more women doctors and scientists than there are women programmers even though all three fields require technical skills? Do you feel no sense of responsibility to provide a welcoming atmosphere to encourage more women to join our field?
>>>>>>>
In school I used to help run projects that tried to get young kids interested in robotics. One of the goals, in particular, was to get little girls interested in technology. Again, don't give me shit about "welcoming atmosphere." We're among adults here, and adults should be mature enough to tell the difference between a joke and a personal attack. Besides, in my experience, the problems with getting girls interested in technology runs a lot deeper than some jokes, or a welcoming atmosphere. There are systematic biases in our society that penetrate to the very value systems of traditional families. It's these biases that are keeping girls out of technology. It's the fact that every commercial involving Stoffers or WalMart involves a "mom taking care of her family." It's the fact that to this day, there are men who believe that women can't do their job just as well. The only things jokes do is take the edge off an otherwise harsh and bitter reality.
Imagine for a minute that you are my fifteen year old daughter surfing the net while trying to figure out what field to enter. Do you think these jokes, whatever their intent, will encourage her to become a programmer?
>>>>>>>>>
At fifteen, your daughter should be mature enough to realize the difference between humor and personal attacks. If she can't, then she should read more and get a full understanding of how language conveys intention. I have a brother who is 13 years old. He finds all the Flash videos on the internet about muslims hilarious. However, the one time somebody made an intentionally hurtful comment to him, he was very offended. If you can't distinguish between what somebody says, and what he means, you can't expect others to refrain from saying certain things just because you might misinterpret it.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Dude, I'm a Muslim Indian.
Ok, then obviously it was wrong of me to assume that you don't know the joking from the underside. Your points about other institutional reasons for lack of women in programming are well taken. I hope my daughter develops the same thick skin as your younger brother. I still disagree with you about the nature of joking on slashdot, but thanks for discussing the situation.