Regulatory Fees on the 802.11 Broadcast Spectrum?

Demerara asks: "I live in the Caribbean where I am putting together a business plan for a WISP on St. Lucia. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the St. Lucian National Telecomms Regulatory Commission here licenses and charges fees for 2.4Ghz spread spectrum applications. It's nearly US$400 to apply and, get this, nearly US$800 per link, per *year*. This blows the economics of a WISP out of the water. I may be reading the laws and regulations wrong but I don't think so. For example - they even charge an application fee and an annual license for the 'Family Band' walkie-talkies - look in the fees PDF. I am attempting to find out the following: what international agreements govern spectrum management; what international agreements govern licensing of WiFi or 802.11; and finally, are there any Slashdot readers out there who live in countries where 802.11 technology is also licensed or heavily regulated? The ITU website doesn't seem to answer these questions or, to be fair, I cannot come up with the keywords to find the answers. I'd love to hear from others who use or operate 802.11 under less than 'free' regulatory regimes."

Comments

Some Countries are unclear on the concept.

[BigFire]

When ever they see even a way of squeezing a buck out of whatever you do, they'll go for it. This has the effect of driving business from even visiting the place in the first place.

Well, one of the benefit of sovereignity is the ability to print your own money, hope someone else is dumb enough to actually take it.

Re:Some Countries are unclear on the concept.

[Arti]

Do I detect a hint of Randian anti-government bias here? Do you have any data to indicate that nusiness won't even "visit" places that squeeze a buck out of them? Businesses will go wherever there's a profit, and once they're there they'll work to expand the profit by upping their volume and shrinking their costs, which includes lobbying to eliminate as many taxes on their operations as possible.

Re:Some Countries are unclear on the concept.

[steve_bryan]

I suppose someone probably said air conditioning is not necessary or who needs elevators when stairs will do? These only point to the notion that what is 'necessary' is a function of time, If 802.11 protocols and infrastructure become ubiquitous everywhere else because of its unlicensed characteristic it hard to imagine how this will play out well for a government that sees this as a money grabbing opportunity.

What you have to realize,

[mindstrm]

especially in small countries, is that the government can and do control everything. They can regulate spectrum how they want, and USE how they want.

Some places even say "You can't use 2.4Ghz for internet" or "providing internet in any way is forbidden unless you are the national ISP" .. etc....

So you might be screwed.

The upside, is you can bribe.

Re:Not to be facetious

[natet]

I think what he may be looking for is whether or not the local laws violate any international agreements that the country may have signed.

I wish they would do that in the US

[73939133]

If the spectrum used by 802.11b gets flooded by ISPs, cell phone companies, and other commercial users, it will become useless for its primary purpose: networking and communications within an organization or home.

If you make money by selling services using some chunk of spectrum, I think you should have to pay for that chunk of spectrum, or at the very least convince the government to give it to you for free.

Re:Sydney Wireless

[mcdrewski42]

At the rish of /.'ing our national communications authority (ACA) in Australia, there is a very clear fact sheet on this (PDF) from them...

Long and the short is that for personal use - no license is required. For "commercial" (looks like it even includes sharing one ADSL landline over WiFi between neighbours) use, a license is required.

Practically, though, they don't seem to mind as long as you're under a certain power level.

Different way 2 make money & get Govt on your

[adzoox]

If that's true, then why don't you just get a signal sniffer and turn everyone in that has microwaves, 2.4Ghz, & 5Ghz spread spectrum cordless phones. Help your government collect fines.

If you DO have to pay for such a liscense, turn in a few governing officials for using these "waves"

I remember IBM made an interface not long ago that just attached to your modem port and used the same technology as a 900Mhz phone (pre 802.11b days). Who's to say what ANYONE at ANY given time is doing with their lines or those unrestricted airwaves?

I also recall that France had a problem with Apple's Airport when it first came out, and the last Airport Extreme firmware update addressed a lot issues specifically for France. So, you may want to see what the French object to as a place to start.

Re:Not to be facetious

[GoofyBoy]

What country would sign an international agreement on how much they can internally charge for something?

Wireless technology doesn't fall into environmental/human rights/crimial activities.

I can't imagine how an international agreement would even define "outragous" service charges.

This Ask Slashdot is just a person who needs an international or better yet, local lawyer who knows technology.

You are SOL

[alienw]

Sorry, but there are no international agreements regarding unlicensed spectrum. Unlicensed use of the 2.4GHz band is a privilege, not a right, and is permitted only in the US and a few other countries. The FRS walkie-talkies are a purely US thing, and are illegal to use in most other countries. Hell, many countries confiscate them (and other unapproved RF equipment) at the border.

Protection of Govenment Sponsored Monopolies

[bladernr]

If you look deeper, you may discover that the govenment is protecting an [in-efficient] monopoly.

For instance, many countries disallow consumer VoIP usage (India, for instance, last time I checked). The reason is that their big, government controlled international phone carrier (BSNL) makes most of its profit from international calls. Government enterprises are protected by the government through a system of regulations, leading generally to higher prices and lower service all around.

Maybe the government is protecting a government ISP or wireless provider. Yes, it could be mobile phone protection; many government regulators don't notice a different between GSM, 3G and 802.11b/g.

To get around the licensing, you may can convince/bribe some government minister that you won't be competing with the protected enterprise. Otherwise, maybe you can take your case to the public and hope for a rules change. No matter what, changing protectionist regulations is a nightmare. Just ask Europe how easy it would be to get France to consider dropping the CAP and going for free-market food-production.

Common problem

[smallpaul]

Carribean countries (and probably a lot of development countries) tend to think about income in the short-term. They don't think about the industries they are strangling. It is also common (still!) for them to award complete monopolies on technologies in exchange for cash. Consider the sad state of the Barbadian telecoms "industry".

I grew up in Jamaica and

[Brigadier]

there are quite a few laws governing any sort of braodcast, but there is no one to police it. and If you did get cought a US $50 would paysomeone off. I know this sounds bad but it's true. Most third world contries dont have the ifrastructure to manage stuff like this. So why do they make such laws to gouge anyone who tries to do something that woudl better the community.

Your business is in the government's best interest

[Rimbo]

What your business doing represents a win-win scenario for the government of St. Lucia. Show the government how your business will make their jobs and lives easier and better. They may even become one of your better investors. I am sure you will be able to work a way around this regulatory snag, or have it deregulated.

Technically

[MisterFancypants]

Technically you need a radio license with similar expensive fees to run most of the newer model "two-way radios" (read: Walkie Talkies) here in the US.

Virtually noone actually applies for them, and I'm not aware of anyone getting nabbed for it..

YMMV, don't try this in places where you might end up in a dark hole for years for flaunting such regulations (luckily we're about 2-3 years away from that situation in the US, phew!)

Re:France?

[HiKarma]

I believe the frequency bands for 802.11b and other unlicenced spectrum were chosen because things like Microwave ovens put out a lot of noise in this band. As such, the band is useless to people who need no interference, and of course you don't need a radio licence for your oven, why should you need one for your cordless phone or lan?

So it is extremely unlikely the French military actually depend on not getting interference in this band. I presume they just are greedy and think they own something and don't want to give it up.

Bullshit question

[maggard]

Most nations consider their telecommunications spectrum to a natural national resource the same as public lands, airspace, coasts, mining, etc. Indeed at one time the US licensed on the basis that "aether" was a physical medium.

You're proposing a business built on using the publics property - their radio frequencies. Why shouldn't they expect to get back return on their property?

In many countries operators are required to give back in return via community-interest programming, being requisitioned in times of emergency, providing other services. Different countries prefer a straight licensing fee: Pay to use the medium or get shut down. Most use some combination as does the USA.

However your asking on /. for an interpretation of St. Lucia law is absolutely ludicrous. Pay for competent local legal advice and don't go asking the geeks for what most of them know little about: International telecommunications law and specifically St. Lucia law.

Why does /. post these garbage questions every so often anyhow? Raise pageviews? It's gotta be obvious few if any of the readers here will have the requisite knowledge, hell half are probably unaware there is non-US law anywhere.

They can do whatever they want

[Craigj0]

I'm pretty sure that the country can do whatever they want regarding "Air space" policy. A case in point is France where some of the WiFi spectrum is off limits due to it already being used by the military. Most countries have this gap in the ranges because it is not a very good transmition band due to it being the resonant frequency of water. So they usually just skip it and classify the next higher band for use. The only reason it is free is because no one wanted to buy it. Now people do so it is only logical some countries will begin charging for the use of that space. For logistical reasons they will charge the company that sells the devices and probably will not charge the end user.

Re:Other options

[Anonymous Coward]

Radio is one-way. Networking communications are not. All the users would also need a high-power (illegal) transmitter.

Re:So start a revolution...

[LostCluster]

If you need help, here's somebody who I know is in the business who you should contact: George W. Bush 1600 Pennsylvania Ave Nw Washington, DC 20500

strangely, I almost believe that

[Trepidity]

He's already famous and rich, so he'd at least have a better chance of being somewhat independent from the lobbyists.