Slashdot Mirror


Installing Halon Fire Supression System at Home?

swmagazine asks: "The house my family is building just burn down 2 weeks before competition. Now that the insurance is paying out some money, I am seriously considering installing Halon system at home because the house comes with a server room and I will be having at least 10 computers running in the house. I would like to know if anyone has experience with Halon system as well as the feasibility of installing such system at home." The possibility that your computer could conceivably be a fire hazard is extremely low on newer machines. Older machines, without the proper protection, may overheat, and that might cause problems. Might such a system minimize the damage posed by a house-fire, or are they too expensive (or too ineffective) for the average home owner?

17 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. FM-200 by pci · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well since no one, that I know of, makes ozone depleting Halon anymore, you may want to look at an FM-200 system. I still think this is a bit excessive for home use, most systems I've seen are more than >$10k after purchase and installation.

  2. not halon by Naikrovek · · Score: 4, Informative

    halon is un-breathable. this means that if someone is in the house when the system releases its gas, that that person/animal is dead. it starves the air of oxygen.

    I wouldn't do it.

    the best prevention is to simply watch what the heck is going on with all the electrical stuff in your house and to simply not be careless. sure, all fires aren't preventable, but 99.999% are. Insurance and a good data backup solution will take care of the rest.

    1. Re:not halon by Dahan · · Score: 4, Informative
      halon is un-breathable.

      Depends on what you mean by "un-breathable." It's unbreathable in the same way that nitrogen is unbreathable, but I've managed to survive for a few decades breathing approximately 80% nitrogen/20% oxygen.

      this means that if someone is in the house when the system releases its gas, that that person/animal is dead. it starves the air of oxygen.

      No, that's not true. As the OSHA says, "Not acutely toxic at <10% by volume" and "Generally used at <7% by volume." The National Fire Protection Association agrees, stating that a concentration of 5 percent Halon in air is sufficient for most flame extinguishment. It doesn't work by removing oxygen from the air--CO2 and nitrogen flood systems do that. It works by actively interfering with the chain reaction of a flame.

      As the OSHA site mentions, there are some downsides... breathing 15% or so for a couple of minutes might cause some irregular heartbeats in some people. Also, Halon decomposes into hydrofluoric acid and hydrobromic acid when it's exposed to fire. But then again, it'll put out the fire almost instantly (halon will even stop an explosion in progress)--the minute quantities of HF and HBr are much better than the large quantities of other toxic gasses that burning things put out.

      But the bottom line is that no, you won't die if the Halon system goes off in a room you're in. I've heard that when Halon was first introduced, they'd demo it by putting a guy in a closed room and have him light a cigarette and candle, then dump in the Halon. The cigarette and candle would go out, and the guy would be in there with no ill effects.

  3. Try Water by fm6 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Right you are. Halon isn't particularly effective anyway. It's only used in machine rooms because it doesn't damage electronics. And even that usage is on the decline. Given the way computers collapse in cost, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money protecting them. If you want to protect your data, back it up offsite.

    Consider the ordinary building sprinkler system. There's a reason you can't put up a new public building without one: they're damned effective. But they're also expensive. I don't think I've ever heard of them in a single-family structure.

    1. Re:Try Water by elmegil · · Score: 2, Informative

      From my experience, Halon is in many places illegal; the only places I know that still have it were fitted long ago and are relying on grandfather clauses to save the massive expense of refitting with foam or other types of fire suppressant systems.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  4. Inergen, not halon... by Shoten · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ok, you can no longer (I'm assuming you're in the USA) get halon, as it is harmful to the ozone layer. What's now used for this purpose is called Inergen. Furthermore, despite all the howling by everyone about the risk of suffocation, keep in mind that it will take a bit of time for an entire home to become filled with the stuff, and the fact that any professionally installed system includes alerts to let you know when the system is activated. Between the warning you get, the air in your lungs and the air that has not been displaced yet, you can be just fine. This kind of system has been put in many types of facilities in all sorts of different ways, and unless it's done incredibly wrong, by no means will it turn your home into a big gas chamber :)

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  5. Halon health considerations by shadowbearer · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.healthsafetyinfo.com/news/tip/autotip-a rc.cfm?content_id=11890

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    1. Re:Halon health considerations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Specifically, from the article:

      "Generally, Halon 1301 at design concentrations of 5-7% is not harmful to room occupants, says Michael Crowley, PE, vice president and engineering manager at Rolf Jensen and Associates in Houston, TX.

      "But as the halon interacts with the fire to help extinguish it, the halon will decompose and the decomposition products are more of a health hazard than the pure halon agent.

      "NFPA 12A has a significant amount of information related to the toxicity of Halon 1301 and you should consult the standard for complete details.

      To briefly review, paragraph 1-5.1.1 in NFPA 12A states: "Unnecessary exposure to Halon 1301 and its decomposition products shall be avoided. Exposure to high concentrations or for prolonged periods can produce dizziness, impaired coordination, and disturbances in cardiac rhythm."

  6. Check your local fire and residential codes. by muonzoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    In a great many jurisdictions, Halon systems are not permitted in personal residences. They are a hazard to life and limb. The old server rooms we protected with Halon systems required 'life support' equipment in case you were in the server room when the system discharged.

    Halon displaces the oxygen in the environment it is released into. This is NOT something you want to be doing in your house without sufficient research, and compliance with ALL local ordinances. Failure to do this could jeopardize you and your family. However, I'm sure your machines would survive.

    Your insurance company would likely be less than thrilled at the prospect of you having an automated mechanism for discharging a gas that can asphyxiate you and yours.

  7. Yeah, Halon by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Informative

    I love it.

    Halon is -

    A trade name for a class of halogenated alkanes. Other trade names for these materials are Freon and Genetron. It is one of the classes of materials that has been proven to attack the ozone layer, with persistance in the atmosphere measured it decades. Manufacture of many types of Halon was banned by the Montreal protocol in 1987. Further legal restrictions were subject of the later Kyoto protocol.

    The particular Halons used in fire extinguishment applications are 1301 and 1211. As of Jan 1 2003 refilling existing halon systems is banned in most of the world, and dismantling of all Halon fire extinguishing systems (including safe disposal of their contents) is required by Dec 31 2003.

    Halon works by displacing the natural atmosphere in a room, reducing the concentration of oxygen to levels below that which will support combustion. Since the human body metabolizes sugars to sustain life by a controlled form of combustion, human metabolism will cease under the same conditions.

    Halon, when exposed to fire or similar high temperature conditions will decompose into a variety of toxic gases that will generally cause traumas such as pulmanory edema.

    It is illegal to install new Halon systems except in certain 'Critical' applications, mostly in aircraft fire supression systems.

    For home applications involving electrical systems a good ABC fire extinguisher containing a dry chemical like monoammonium phosphate available at your local hardware store is the best choice. Use of fire resistant materials, elimination of clutter and especially adherance to electrical codes in your server room are also recommended to prevent fires in the first place.

    Your most important fire control steps are prevention.

  8. Resedential sprinklers are NOT expensive by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was quoted $1.25 per sq ft several years ago. Even if prices have gone up to $2 sq ft, that's only 1 or 2 percent of the total cost. Pretty cheap for good protection.

    Also, the very fact that you are thinking of Halon implies you want to put the fire out and preserve everything. That's a nice goal, but computers are cheap and easily replaced, and presumably you have offsite backup storage.

    The point of fire protection is to give occupants time to get out and to stop the fire from spreading. Saving the structure itself is a nice side benefit. Saving minor contents is pure gravy.

    1. Re:Resedential sprinklers are NOT expensive by fm6 · · Score: 2, Informative
      You're right (and I was wrong) about the cost. But sprinkler advocates seem to consider sprinkers to be very effective at preserving structure and contents. The thing is that most fires start small and grow quickly. But if you have sprinklers, even a small fire will set off 3 or 4 heads, and that'll limit fire and water damage to the area around those heads. Compare that to waiting for the fire department to come -- even if they save the structure, water damage is likely to ruin the contents.

      So I guess there's no really good reason sprinklers aren't in every new structure in the U.S. I'd guess that the only resistance comes from building developers, who see even a marginal increase in costs coming out of their bottom line.

      In the (unlikely) event I ever build a house, you can believe it'll be sprinklered!

  9. Halons do NOT primarily work by O2 Displacement by bigsteve@dstc · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... according to this quote from the H3R website.
    Halon is a liquefied, compressed gas that stops the spread of fire by chemically disrupting combustion. Halon 1211 (a liquid streaming agent) and Halon 1301 (a gaseous flooding agent) leave no residue and are remarkably safe for human exposure. Halon is most effective for flammable liquids and electrical fires (rated B:C) and is electrically non-conductive.

    Actually, this is common sense. If you wanted to damp combustion by excluding oxygen, it would be cheaper (and more environmentally friendly) to use an inert gas like nitrogen or carbon dioxide.

    There is no doubt that Halon does replace oxygen to some degree and therefore does present a potential danger of asphyxia. However, there is another problem with Halons. When they come into contact with a fire, they breaks down, releasing breakdown products that are extremely dangerous, even at low concentrations.

    1. Re:Halons do NOT primarily work by O2 Displacement by Dahan · · Score: 3, Informative
      Right... I don't know why everyone likes to say that Halon fire supression systems will kill you if you're in the room, or that they work by removing oxygen. It's reached urban legend status...

      There is no doubt that Halon does replace oxygen to some degree and therefore does present a potential danger of asphyxia.

      A 7% concentration of Halon 1301 will put out a fire... that leaves plenty of oxygen for breathing. Sure, you'll have problems if you flood the room with the 50% or so that an inert gas like CO2 requires (up to 75% CO2 for dust fires), but Halon is/was expensive--there's no point in releasing that much Halon.

      Halon is banned due to it being an ozone-depleting fluorocarbon, not due to it being a health hazard. BTW, Halon 1301 means 1 Carbon, 3 Fluorine, 0 Chlorine, 1 Bromine--CF3Br.

  10. A question by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The house my family is building just burn down 2 weeks before competition." Was that before or after completion?

  11. It's Argonite you probably want, not Halon by forged · · Score: 3, Informative
    Argonite is installed in the labs hosted at my employeer's, I think it's illegal now to use Halon 1301.

    Search Google for Argonite and you will find such great links as this one. Transcript below for the clicking-impaired or just lazy :-)

    Argonite - fighting fires nature's way
    More and more companies are today ensuring that environmental considerations play a major part when selecting a fire fighting system. So much so that Argonite, which consists entirely of naturally occurring gasses, has long been the solution of first choice for many industrial and commercial building occupiers.

    Not only has Argonite zero Ozone Depleting Potential (ODP), it also contributes nothing towards global warming, thanks to a complete absence of hydrofluorocarbons-HFCs. At the same it is a gaseous fire suppressant that has an enviable 50-year track record.

    The environmental answer:
    Argonite is a leading environmentally-friendly replacement for Halon 1301. An equal blend of nitrogen and argon, it produces no secondary combustion products and is particularly suitable for fighting fires in confined spaces. Because its molecular weight is close to that of air, it lingers longer when discharged to extinguish a fire. This reduces the need for hermetic sealing of a protected room - a process that can be very expensive and needs to be repeated every time structural changes are made.

    Argonite is not prone to fogging, is non-toxic, non-corrosive, leaves no residue and is electrically non-conductive. This has led to it being successfully specified in applications where there is a need to avoid secondary damage by the fire fighting agent. Popular applications include computer and control rooms, tape and archive stores, electrical cabinets and switchgear compartments and around telecommunications equipment.

    How Argonite Works
    Should a fire start, Argonite is injected rapidly into the room, reducing the oxygen level from the normal 21% to between 11% and 13%. This is too low for further combustion to take place, yet high enough to allow essential safety personnel to operate.

    Argonite is suited to either total flooding or local application. When more than a single room or compartment is protected, GIELLE normally recommends that a central bank of Argonite cylinders is connected via diverter valves. This frequently proves to be the most cost effective and efficient solution. As a permanent gas working under high pressure with single-phase flow characteristics, complicated pipe networks can be installed.

  12. Halon health risks by BobBoring · · Score: 3, Informative

    Halon is bad for the ozone layer was the reason given for its going out of use in the US. They have found out recently that it is not as bad as they though so it is starting to come back.

    Being exposed to Halon is not a big deal. The OSHA exposure standard is based on exposure to Halon in a neutral environment. Being in the room with a halide gas and a large fire is the problem.

    The major health risk with Halon dump extinguishers is the by products of the quenching cycle. The way halides interfere with combustion is an ionic cycle that sucks the energy out of the combustion process. The cycle is a true cycle and depends on the halides eventually returning to their original state. During the cycle you get other unstable intermediate products that are not toxic per say. They are ionicly unstable and will rip atoms out of stable molecules to get to a stable state. The hotter the fire the more of the intermediate products produce and the longer they hang around. Additionally the cycle is not 100% closed. The combustion products from the plastics in computers plus the halide gases make some bad stuff(TM) like phosgene for example.

    A small fire goes out quickly, typically >30 seconds and produce little in the way of toxic by products. A big fire goes out more slowly, 3-5 minutes. Because larger fire is hotter and takes so much more time to quench, far more of the toxic by products are produced. Breathing the larger quantities of the intermediate products created by a larger fire plus toxic gas produced by the fire can cause irreparable harm to you lungs. Getting out of the room quickly is to avoid exposure to the smoke and letting the Halon do its job.

    The SOP for Halon dumps was: you pull the handle the electric primary power to the room disconnects, a horn sounds, a short time, seconds, later the Halon floods the room. The delay is to let everyone leave before the flood starts. Once the fire is out and the Halon and combustion site has a chance to cool off you only have to worry about the toxic smoke from the fire. I've seen people open the door to soon after a fire, let too much of the Halon escape and have the fire rekindle.