Slashdot Mirror
Game Makers Aren't Chasing Women
Thanks to Wired News for their article discussing what videogames women are playing, and whether the mainstream games industry is serving them well. According to the piece, "Observers say the industry isn't exactly rushing to make PC and console games that appeal to both men and women, let alone women alone. That's despite the massive success of games with crossover appeal, such as The Sims." However, a researcher on the subject suggests being too calculating doesn't work either: "Making games in which you get women to do 'women things' isn't a very successful strategy." So what does?
The game makers aren't chasing women. They're designing them instead.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"McGroarty, these are terrible examples of girl games. You haven't a clue what women want to play."
And that's my second point: As a guy, I haven't a clue. If you want to see more girl games, get more women into making games.
My wife started playing those java games at the popcap site, and she loves them. Noticed they even started selling standalone versions of the games at compusa. Talking to a friend, and his girlfriend has been playing the games on there too.
While fun, they arnt FPS type games, more brain teasers of sorts. My wife told her friends at work, and all the women seem to like these games, they even play multiplayer version of them.
So ya, women seem to play different types of games.
I play CounterStrike, she plays Dynomite. (a bubble bobble clone) Thou we both like tetrinet, multiplayer tetris with powerups. Something about being evil with powerups makes it fun.
I don't think that the gaming industry really wants to make games for girls...yet.
"The Sims", as the article mentions, is higly popular with women -- more so than with men. But nobody in the industry really wants to quit working on Warcraft to make another game that is closer to real life.
Guys like fantasy games. Women tend to like more "realistic" games, despite the fact that really, they're fantasy as well.
There's still a huge market for fantasy games. Until developers need to market to women to survive, they probably will be very slow about it.
Most of the women I know are not interested in games period. They simply don't associate games with entertainment. If they do, they focus on puzzle type games (like Tetris) and strategy games (like Heroes of Might & Magic). After that, I think it is just marketing. If they are too lazy to think that far ahead, it is their own damn fault for missing the market.
"All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power." - Ashleigh Brilliant
So there aren't enough games with women in mind out there, but we shouldn't gear games toward women?
Besides, how do you "gear games toward women". You make a good game. Whoever likes it likes it. So are they saying that women don't like RPG, FPS, strategy or simulation games? Then what DO they like? Those are essentially all the games that exist and they seem to do okay for the rest of the world.
Women of the world, enlighten us with your bold new genre of videogames that we need to make especially for you? Seriously, I don't mean to be flip - what exactly DO you want?!?!
and most of the other women I know - are simpler puzzle type games. My wife doesn't care about flashy immersive graphics or 5.1 digital surround, just something that challanges her - there's no money in these games. Most of them are already available for free at pogo.
I'm in my mid-twenties, and my girlfriend plays (some) video games, and that's fairly unusual.
My sister, who's 17, plays video games and that's true for at least half of her age group.
My 8-year-old female cousin loves video games, and doesn't have any problem with them at all. Just as video games grew into the mainstream for males, they are moving that way with females (although more slowly).
Playing video games doesn't have to be a "masculine" or "feminine" activity any more than watching a movie. There are plenty of games that can or could appeal to any gender.
That being said, I think video games lost a lot of girls when they started having more than one button. They lost even more when they went to 3D. When games got to the point that you had to read instructions or do tutorials, the gender gap emerged. The arcades also declined sharply at that point.
For starters, how about removing all of the scantily clad, oversized breast equipped, fat lipped "hoes" from the majority of interactive entertainment.
This would effectively render games "mature" and "tasteful", (you are familiar with those words, yes?) and that would attract a wider audience of gamers right there.
As soon as you bring up "Barbie" games on the topic of "games geared towards women" you are already headed in the wrong direction. Try thinking of women as mature adults instead of a pink dress, shopping machine demographic an see what happens.
OK, you ready? really? you sure? OK, here goes...
(ahem)
Well, the developers of Duke Numem Forever are chasing women -- I can't imagine what else could have distracted them *this* long.
[applause sign]
Thank you, thank you... you've been a wonderful crowd... I'll be here all week....
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
It's like the myth that says women only want romance and girls only play with dolls.
The facts are really simple: women share most of the same neurology and physiology as men. They can enjoy games - voluntary challenges full of interesting choices - just as men can. However, they also hate the same things - they hate feeling like a failure, feeling stupid or embarrassed.
Most games today are designed for male neurology and skill level; that is, high degree of spatial and hand-to-eye coordination, navigational skills, and logical puzzles. The core gameplay is right, but the reward/punishment mechanisms are not accounting for the gender difference.
If you look at Bejeweled, it's easy to see why the logical yet forgiving gameplay appeals equally to both genders. It's built around reward, not punishment. Even if you didn't know what to do at all, you get rewards just by clicking around on the screen. You will never be embarrassed or humiliated by the game regardless of what degree of skills you have. And on the second go, you will probably better your score.
Another great example is the city building series by Sierra, which allows you to choose between the path of the warrior or the path of the builder. Almost always, you can pay off your enemies by running a successful economy instead of fighting the war.
This pattern of non-punitive, positively rewarding gameplay is core to almost all titles that have enjoyed high degree of success with women.
Making games for women is not rocket science. :-)
Jouni
Jouni Mannonen | Game Designer, Consultant
Women seem to enjoy relationship building activities. My spouse and about 500 books in the local Chapters seem to point to this. So, I can see "Sims" as being popular, and maybe some RPG -- as long as there is relational /point/ to the RPG.
/don't get the point/. "Grand Theft Auto" seems to deliberately go "anti-relationship". James Bond game that my nephews have kept insisting that I come out shooting -- or I die.
/could/ enjoy an immersive simulation. But I don't get a world where I have to pump my testosterone to 11 before even beginning. Give me another choice (negotiate, be subversive, etc.) to allow me to continue.
I don't like most of the games out there, because I
And this is not amusing to me. I enjoy a story arc, I
So the audience is overcharged young men with something to prove. I find it a laugh, because getting very VERY good at video games is not going to impress the girls. Which was the point of the testosterone boost in the first place. Irony.
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Another observation is that a lot of the women I know, including my wife, really enjoy two player fighters. My wife loves Soul Calibur and is chomping at the bit to play the new one at home (gotta go with the GC version - Link is gonna rock!). She also really enjoys the Street Fighter-derived games (not so much SNK's fighters). DOA is one of the few that I've found that my wife and her friends aren't all that interested in (no, I don't think it's the "bump-mapping"). Perhaps there is something about the competition in those games that the manufacturers need to explore.
I honestly believe that many women are interested in gaming, but there are both social barriers and gender barriers that block them for some reason or another. There's definitely money to be made there...good luck to whomever decides to attack it.
Oh, wait, since this is /.: one thing i know, MS sure as hell won't figure it out. But they may buy the folks that do. ;)
All this concern about a lack of female-friendly games is really a non-issue. If there is money to be made on it, eventually someone will do it.
Furthermore, it's more likely easier said than done. War games, for instance, are much easier to conceptualize than a game like The Sims. (This is why I still admire Will Wright, despite EA's expansion-pack-a-thon.)
Sure, you can say "make a game about dating and finding the right guy". But, well, how? Where is the game? What exactly do you control? How should the AI engine work? Et cetera, et cetera. (And yes, I know dating games are big in Japan, but they're largely unrealistic and are mostly composed of multiple-choice quizzes.)
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
They should really focus on making games that girls are *good* at. If they're good at it and enjoy it in real life, maybe they would like it in game form, too.
I'm thinking... something along the lines of PVP games like mud wrestling. With jello wrestling and creamed corn wrestling levels, too. And there could be olympic-type games like baby-tossing and endurance based oral games.
And maybe, along the lines of that old Tapper beer game, they could have a cooking and cleaning game... Maybe where the goal is to make and serve the most turkey dinners as fast as possible.
Then you could have the "artificial insemination" game... I picture it to be a bit like bubble-bobble...
At least for my wife..
Sure, she plays the ones they mention..The Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, (She likes anything sandboxy and expandable really). As well, we both like the Pop-cap style of small games, (who doesn't)
However the tastes go beyond that..
Everything from Baldur's Gate:Dark Alliance and Legend of Mana to Final Fantasy IX and Might and Magic VI and VII. (She is obessed with those games. One challenge she made is to beat a temple full of Lich's at as low of a level as possible. Her lowest is 6!)
Doom and Blood (Her personal fav) to Jedi Knight II. Diablo II for a while as well.
Burnout, Sonic Advendture II Battle.
All of the Mario games for the most part. Perfect Dark/007. Even Ikaragua for crying out loud.
Among many others. (The one thing we agree with is a dislike for the "classics". Outside Bubble Bobble, there is not many old games we really enjoy)
What is the point?
Women gamers are no different than men gamers. Each have their own tastes, likes and dislikes. Trying to lump them in a completely seperate catagory..to be honest is sexist and counter-productive. Make good games and women will play them, if they want to.
Not sure if that qualifies but the virtual world "There" is entirely tailored to attract women.
A few things they do off the top of my head:
- no killing, no blood. ever.
- lots of overly cute things (pets, environment)
- shopping. lots of shopping.
- lots of pretty clothes.
- very easy to find people to chat with
It's clearly not as "goal-driven" as most traditional games, and that might also be part of its women appeal.
I think we're spending too much time talking about what games girls like rather than addressing the issue of whether or not girls do play games in general.
My wife had never played a single computer game before we were married. She showed no desire after we were married until she saw me playing several games. Then she started playing games like Zeus or Majesty (puzzle/strategy games). She liked boggle and bejeweled as well.
Then... she saw me play some real games. She's not great, really, but has learned to love to play UT, Q3, Tony Hawk, Aggressive Inline, Mario, Twisted Metal:Black, GTA3, SSX, etc. She wasn't brought up having the expectation that she would like games so she didn't... and then, only liked girl-type games at first.
I notice the same thing with my daughters. I play games... their mom plays games... naturally, they want to play games. They love mario cart, mario party, a whole slew of barbie crud, SSX, and Tony Hawk PS3 (we turn off some songs though). Other than the barbie games... these are typically boy-liked games as well.
Sure, girls will be attracted to games with more puzzle or realistic situations as people have pointed out already in this thread... but more time should be spent by developers trying to turn girls on to gaming... not creating games they think girls will like.
Certainly every man at his best state is but vapor
**sound of slashdot crickets**
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
"Sweetie, I don't think you play enough video games. You spend too much time running around outside, and I just don't think that's healthy. I want to see you spend at least three hours a day in front of that PS2.
"And no sneaking off to read books when you're supposed to be playing games, either!"
Bite the hand.
I don't think I'm a good example of the majority of 'girl gamers'. I love a good round of Quake3/UT2k3, I've clocked Warcraft 3 several times and do not suck on battle.net, and own all three of the major console. And I mean own, not "my fiance bought it and I just happen to play it." (Only just got around to buying Halo yesterday. My bad. It is soooooooooo good.)
But, I can say what pisses me off, as a woman, in a game.
The busty heroines I'm fine with; it's nice to see women with curves, as they usually are, than skinny rakes. It's just what they're dressed in most of the time that I really have issues with. I mean, hello, cleavage is all very well but a bare chest ain't much protection against a sword.
Not to mention sex-object women thrown in for the sake of being sex-objects. It's silly, and I don't think most men are that easily drawn. ("oooh! Boobies!")
What I've noticed in my work (I sell video games. All video games.) is that the women who are casual gamers tend to gravitate towards puzzle games, yes, but also platformers.
The thing about most platformers, Spyro, Mario, Rayman, is that they're not geared towards a gender, they're geared towards an age group.
The fact that they're largely games with a younger audience appeal means the controls are not difficult to master, there's less of the glorious gory gibbing going on, and there is nothing there to alienate anyone of a specific gender.
That's all that really needs to be done. Don't make games -for- women, (being a woman, I have no idea what a woman's game would be, but it sounds scary), just don't make them specifically for men. Probably toned down violence would appeal to a lot of women, but I happen to like the red mist. ; )
And for that matter, make high quality games! That way, anyone will like it.
(Argh! The time! Must catch bus!)
[insert witty quote here]