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Good and Bad Uses of Tech in Public Schools?

skot asks: "I am a high school math teacher and recovering journalist working on an article about innovative (and insane) uses of technology in the classroom. I have seen schools plunk down thousands of dollars on handheld computers that teachers and students basically use as notebooks - fancy, expensive notebooks. I have also seen teachers try to forbid their students from using the internet in a research project. I'm sure many Slashdot readers have lived through experiences like this - and more. If you want to share your stories, I'd love to hear 'em."

26 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. Damn kids (FP!) by F1_Fan · · Score: 2, Informative

    Kids today forget how to use a library and rely on internet sources that don't receive the peer review of real books.

    I've seen it first hand... inaccurate facts in papers... "but it was on the internet!"

  2. Good use vs. Bad use of computers by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Good:
    Having the teacher give the give the lecture as a power point presentation with a LCD projector. The slides can then be published on the web for later consumption

    Bad:
    Holding a lecture in a computer lab and having the class "follow along".

    Good:
    Requiring that students use a mix of sources in thier papers, including electronic and print.

    Bad:
    Not grading them on their sources "Bob's Website of SuperFun Stats says that..."

    Good:
    Requiring that students turn in a digital copy of thier papers along with a print version for markup.

    Bad:
    Not running plagarism checking software on those digital copies.

    1. Re:Good use vs. Bad use of computers by illuvata · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good:
      Having the teacher give the give the lecture as a power point presentation with a LCD projector. The slides can then be published on the web for later consumption


      Bad:
      have the teacher try to give a powerpoint presentation, but not get power point, or just being really unfamiliar, and thus slow.
      i really hate poorly done powerpoint presentations that teachers just done because they feel they have to

    2. Re:Good use vs. Bad use of computers by MattCohn.com · · Score: 2

      And for the love of god, PLEASE! Just because you can put in sound and slide transitions doesn't meen you have to!

    3. Re:Good use vs. Bad use of computers by the_ed_dawg · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I tend to agree with many of the above points. However, I would like to extend my experiences with one of them. I attended a two day seminar in the newly designed (at no small expense, mind you) classrooms at my university and participated in a study funded by the National Science Foundation (NSF) to evaluate the effectiveness of using the Internet to instruct collegiate-level students. I managed to graduate Summa Cum Laude, so don't give me any of those "you're just a [stupid|cracktarded|etc.] person" replies, please.

      Good: Having the teacher give the give the lecture as a power point presentation with a LCD projector. The slides can then be published on the web for later consumption.
      My experience has also shown that most professors tend to avoid using the technology. We had a classroom with SmartBoards, LCD projectors, and all sorts of multimedia crap, and every professor I had in that classroom ignored it. They always grabbed the markers and wrote on the SmartBoards in whiteboard ink... including the ABET president.

      My B.S. degree is in Electrical Engineering. I have found that many topics can be discussed using PowerPoint, but examples are typically lost in translation. Most professors that use PowerPoint talk around the examples with an inadequate level of depth such that the printable notes are not sufficient to replicate the work outside of class.

      Personally, I don't foresee many fields entirely leaving the realm of chalk/marker and board in the near future. The "traditional" learning style requires that instructors pace themselves with handwriting, whereas a preprepared slide collection usually results in a mind-boggling flight through material. My suggestions to those faculty insisting upon using PowerPoint and other technological conveniences are thus:

      1. Technology is meant to be an aid, not a crutch. Having material on a slide does not absolve an instructor from explaining said material at an appropriate level.

      2. Use animated graphics rather than static ones when describing the motion of an object. One example is to include arrows rotating around a magnet to indicate field lines.

      3. Slow down. Some people out there like to have time to read the slide.

      --
      There are two types of people: those prepared for the zombie apocalypse and those who will be eaten.
  3. Begging for cheaters. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have also seen teachers try to forbid their students from using the internet in a research project.

    This brand of stupidity exists independant of computer technology. I've had professors give take home exams that were:

    1) Closed book, and
    2) To be completed in 1 hour, honor system.

    That's the teacher's way of saying, "Honest people deserve lower grades in this course." Situations such as those are the only ones in which I've ever cheated in school. I don't consider it to be any morally different from cheating on an in-class test, but I certainly didn't hesitate to open up my text book and find the answers.

    Anyway. I realize this has nothing to do with technology, but there you are.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  4. Fiber by PsndCsrV · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My mom teaches at a public elementary school, and they have a "technology committee" that decides all things technology for the school. That's ok, except that none of them are career IT'ers, and none of them have much training in IT except a seminar or 2 about things, or maybe a couple cisco classes.

    So lately the committee has decided that in order to solve all it's network ills, they need to install fiber throughout the entire school! Woo hoo! Right? Theoretically it's a good idea, but in reality, they don't even need it. They're external internet is a T1 (1.5mb), so even a 10mb network will swamp that. Internally they don't even use the network for much besides the internet... just a little storage for the teachers who know, and a few apps here and there. Stuff 100mb ethernet would handle fine.

    Seems pretty stupid to me, and a big useless expense. Especially with all the layoffs and budget crunches going on. I'd rather see them spend the money on a new PC for each teacher, or some classroom spending money. <sarcasm>But they're the technology committee. They know what's best.</sarcasm>

    --
    Experiments must be reproducible; they should all fail in the same way.
    1. Re:Fiber by dkizzier · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's take a look at the problem here. First of all, I don't think you probably have all the information that the tech commitee had when making their decision. There are a lot more factors to take into account than just internet access. I am the I.T. department for a K-12 school. We have fiber to the desktop in about half of our building. The rest of the building has fiber connections, but we are still using CAT 5 for the network. BTW, I do have a bit more than a couple of Cisco classes under my belt. You mentioned that the network was mostly 10mb hubs, etc. Okay, I can see your point of moving to switches, that's a good move. However, what kind of cabling do they have and how old is it. Maybe they're using CAT 3 currently and need to run new cable anyway to transition to 100/1000 mb. At that point, I would seriously consider fiber as an alternative. The fiber will have a longer life, is stronger and less prone to EMI. You can also install longer runs with fiber, which offsets the cost of secondary wiring closets and additional switches. Remember, wiring is an investment. A little extra effort upfront can reap huge rewards down the road. Maybe they don't need the bandwidth right now, but who's to say that they might need it in a year for some sort of video conferencing, or streaming video feeds? My fiber lines are 7 years old, but I don't foresee having to replace them anytime in the near future (5 - 10 years).

  5. Re:Handhelds = Cheaper Than Notebooks? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Funny

    Huh. That's odd. My notebook cost $1.50, and I bet schools can get them even cheaper in bulk.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  6. LTSP, filtering proxies and mail server upgrades by stanwirth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One school here in NZ has their mail server set up to reject all mail from .com domains. Decent spam filter, but it makes it difficult to communicate with the principal about converting it to linux and putting more effective and accurate spam filters on it!

    One request I've seen is for a configuration of squid (or some other cache/proxy server) that can (a) cache a large number of pages on a certain topic (gathered by hand if necessary) and then limit the access of the students to only those pages.

    Another popular item for schools is an ltsp setup . But you *have* to let them know that despite the word "terminal" in the title, these are not dumb terminals per se, but rather a thin client arrangement, more along the lines of the old diskless sun workstations! You don't want them going out and getting a bunch of old VT100's and thinking they'll be able to bring up a graphical display on them! (well, maybe if you put them in tek4014 emulation mode, but it's it's not exactly what they expect!)

    At the NZ Open Source Society we're focussing on schools as a highly appropriate place to place open source deployments, on charity. Think about it. If you donate your time at market rates, you can claim it back on your taxes at a rate that's still a living wage. This is an excellent way to reduce your tax burden from a windfall in previous years, keep busy and expand your skills in a lean year, and do something good for the community--all at the same time.

    A friend of mine's kid uses linux exclusively at home, and when the kids on the schoolbus found out, they backed away from her in shock and informed her that linux "was illegal" and she could be arrested "for being a hacker using that." An idea brought to a school near you by the MS FUD Factory.

    This is the level of misunderstanding of open source in the schools, so it's an important mission to at least dispell some of the FUD surrounding it.

  7. Frankly.... by dacarr · · Score: 2, Insightful
    At the risk of quoting the Backin-Myday act of 1901, I'll list my own take on the whole thing.

    You should know how to do things without the machines (IE, by hand) before you learn to do things with.

    A good example is math. Many people know how to do "2+2=" on a calculator so it spits out 4, but these days I watch kids freak out as I work (say) 3/492 on a piece of paper. They are awed; I am scared.

    --
    This sig no verb.
  8. Start as you mean to go on... by fingal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had the honour of being introduced to computing by Francis Glassborow back in '84 who (among other things) was responsible for:-

    • Starting us off with a version of Forth running on a Sinclair Spectrum (written by himself, 1K core kernel, 4K if you wanted an editor with emacs compatible key bindings...)
    • Moving us onto Pascal as soon as we started getting too attached to being too low level
    • Made anyone who showed the slightest aptitude for cracking systems into system administrators and held them responsible if the network was compromised (resulting in a very low incident rate)
    • Insisted that there where only two rules to programming (and pretty much anything else):-
      • If you really don't know the answer to something then you should ask an expert
      • An expert is anyone who knows more about something than you do.
      This would quite frequently be accompanied by the assigning the more competent members of the class to teaching / bug fixing coding for the rest of the class (you very quickly discover that there is a difference between being able to sort of hack something for yourself and understanding it well enough to be able to give a reasoned explanation to another student)
    --

    The only Good System is a Sound System

  9. Been in education for 13 years now... by millia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It still hasn't killed my zeal, but it does get tough. It's the only industry left in this country that is perpetually understaffed with regard to IT staff. How many 1,500 employee person corporations would have a 5 person IT department?

    My personal pet peeve is graphing calculators. Why pay over a $100 for a calculator, when for the same money you can get a palm and load on graphing calculator software?

    Only in the last several years has there been a clear move to use the computer as an integrated tool, and not to use it as a reward or a game machine.

    Disclaimer: I work at a regional center in Georgia that teaches such integration.

    Towards that end, I've seen a lot of neat uses. It takes more than just a powerpoint slideshow to actually enhance learning, though. Having the students do research and then create their own powerpoint is more effective. (as long as they don't use a sound effect for every letter entry...)

    The key element is to get the students involved. The instructor can use a tool such as Inspiration to do concept outlines, and then make those available as notes.

    I'll think of more examples later...

    --
    stored on computers from birth to the grave
    1. Re:Been in education for 13 years now... by GuyMannDude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My personal pet peeve is graphing calculators. Why pay over a $100 for a calculator, when for the same money you can get a palm and load on graphing calculator software?

      Or you could simply use any standard $2 calculator, a pencil, and some graph paper and have the kids plot the function themselves. The kids would be responsible for using as many or as few sample points as they needed. Instead of mindlessly typing in an equation and watching the gizmo do its thing, the repetition of manually evaluating the function over and over would drive home the important fact that a function is a mapping of inputs to outputs. Instinctively, the kids will want to minimize the amount of work that's required to graph the function and so they'll try to find the sampling that gets the right shape with the smallest number of points. To do this, they'll need to concentrate on the shape of the curve that they're generating with each new data point. Not just a quick glance -- they'll really have to study the shape to make sure they're not about to miss an inflection point or other "gotcha" that might lie between two of their sample points.

      Yeah, it takes a few more minutes to do it this way. But when you factor in the amount of time needed to learn how to use a graphical calculator or software, I'm not sure it really looks that bad.

      GMD

  10. Crazy teacher by aeinome · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We had a crazy English teacher in freshman high school. One project, we were not allowed to use a computer to find information. Now, this seemed okay at first, because there's a lot of information in a library. However, she really took the "no computer" as far as it could go - we couldn't even look up a book on the library's online catalog! And since the library didn't have a card catalog anymore, we had to find the books by scanning the shelves.

    Needless to say, I didn't really like that teacher much.

    --
    When you don't have a leg to stand on, don't even get up.
    1. Re:Crazy teacher by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You are lucky... My first computer assignment in college (circa 1985) had to be turned in Punch Card format.
      Now the interesting thing is that there was 1 working punch card "puncher" and one working punch card "reader" left on campus... of course there was an approximate 2 mile walk between them, so your edit compile debug cycle was
      1) walk to puch card writer wait to type up your punch cards
      2) spend 15 minutes walking across campus to reader, submit job to perplexed operator
      3) take output to quiet room to figure what the hell was wrong
      4) Walk back across campus to the writer
      I got a good impression on how bad it used to be, so I have learned to take advantage of all of the modern tools in the world to help me do my job. Turned out to be an interesting class, just don't get me started on my assembler classes where I wrote C code, and turned in the compiled output

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
    2. Re:Crazy teacher by GuyMannDude · · Score: 2, Informative

      We had a crazy English teacher in freshman high school. One project, we were not allowed to use a computer to find information. Now, this seemed okay at first, because there's a lot of information in a library. However, she really took the "no computer" as far as it could go - we couldn't even look up a book on the library's online catalog! And since the library didn't have a card catalog anymore, we had to find the books by scanning the shelves.

      This is just so sad. Not how "crazy" your teacher was but the fact that once you were forbidden to use any electronic gadget, you seemed at a loss for how to do anything. Here's a couple of "unplugged" options you could have followed rather than performing an exhaustive search of the library's shelves:

      • Look at the poster of the Dewey Decimal System that's hanging on every friggin' wall in a library. Identify the range of numbers most likely to be of interest to you. Go to that specific bookshelf.
      • Once you locate one book that seems to have some useful information, look at the bibliography or references section of it. It will give you some other leads on useful sources of information.
      • Ask the librarian for help! That's what they're there for, for chrissake!

      Needless to say, I didn't really like that teacher much.

      The ability to deal with unexpected and difficult circumstances is a valuable skill that will serve you well in life. Your teacher was trying to see if you could demonstrate that ability. Perhaps instead of silently hating the teacher you and your classmates should have thought a bit more (or asked him or her) about why they set up those rules.

      GMD

  11. Back to basics by GuyMannDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't have any first-hand experience with technology in the classroom but I would like to point out that although American schools have the best technology and computer equipment available to students, we still rank pretty much dead last in terms of math and science education amongst the industrialized countries. I think that fact by itself pretty much wipes out any arguments in favor of cramming our underfunded public schools full of gizmos.

    If I were running a high school, I'd concentrate on making sure the kids learn basics. Like how to think. Deep thinking. Independent thinking. Creative thinking. Critical thinking. This can all be accomplished with pen and paper. Give these kids a solid foundation of how to use their brains and they'll be able to pick up application skills more quickly. I'd also ditch all the so-called "advanced" subjects that are all the rage in high schools these days. No more Psychology classes for high school juniors. No Film Studies. Philosophy might be useful since it teaches logic -- a skill missing from most people these days. Math. Science. English literature. History. That's all you need. If they need to do research, then they haul their lazy asses down to the public library. I'm sure some people will claim that there's a lot more information available on the internet than at the public library. The fact of the matter is that high school students aren't going to be doing research at such a deep level that they have to worry about limitations of their public library system.

    I know my post isn't what you were looking for but I think these are things that anyone considering the role of technology in classrooms needs to keep in their minds. Learning isn't supposed to be a gimmick. Just use basic tools and work hard.

    GMD

  12. Sources by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Bad: Not grading them on their sources "Bob's Website of SuperFun Stats says that..."
    This is a particularly important point. Some teachers who don't like the web as a research tool point to all the web sites with a conspicuous bias. But fact is that all sources have biases. It's just that the bias is a little less conspicuous in the Enclyclopedia Britannica than it is in, say, the Green Nazi web site.

    That's one of the most exciting things about the web. When I was in K-12, it always bothered me to see my classmates accept everything they found in standard reference works as the purest gospel. Nobody recognized that dictionaries and encyclopedias are written by fallible humans, subject to peer and political pressure, cultural bias, and a permanent tendency to oversimplify. When I see kids educating themselves via the discordant voices of the web, I envy them a lot

  13. umm... yeah... by Fareq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well,

    see, I have encountered the opposite problem. Professors who say "information gotten off the internet is less good than information in books"

    and therefore, my printout of a Supreme Court opinion (from the Supreme Court Website, mind you) got me docked, because this source would have been better gotten from the library reference series that contains these things. Incidentally, since the case was very new (the opinion about 2 weeks old -- from MPAA v 2600, by the way) it was not available in printed form anywhere I could find.

    Incidentally, this happened as well with my copy of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, which I took from a web resource (PDFs) instead of from a book...

    Just because it's printed doesn't meen it's true, just because it's electronic doesn't mean it's bogus.

  14. my current experience by skeeter17 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    in this past year, i had 5 very different experiences for my teachers.

    in statistics the teacher was very technology savvy, we use graphing calculators and he has written some very good demonstration programs for them, however, for some of the things that the graphing calculator cannot handle, there is a LCD screen in the room hooked up to a box on the net. This is one of the most useful tools in all of technology savvy teaching. he found some java applets on the net and used them for many class lectures. my school is currently in the process of installing these lcd displays in every classroom, and it allows all the teachers who want to use them to use them.

    a slightly less good use of technology was in my chem class. he would give us videos of demonstrations which he could simply have done for us, where he could show us the demonstation significantly quicker better to explain for all of us if he had done the demonstration physically.

    A new initiative that my school has undertaken was to create a website that even the most technophobe teachers could write for. i helped to teach the teachers how to use the new system in june, and most of them picked up pretty quickly, but most of them were stuck for things to put up. eventually, it was found that the extent for things to put up would be syllabae, solution sets, and links. not quite as useful as would be anticipated, but useful none the less, perhaps some will find more uses.

    --
    ~skeeter
  15. A few stories... by nifboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First of all, the moral of the stories: teach the teachers. If they don't know, the students most certainly will, resulting in chaos.

    One of our more "Gifted" students used the netsend part of the command line as an impromptu messaging system and taught others to do the same. Then we found you could use a wildcard to send messages to every computer in the building. Then some genius started swearing over it. It was quickly shut down, but it made several of the staff very angry as their computers started swearing at them.

    Teachers in comp labs should make sure all moniters are off before speaking. In my high school, the comp lab was set up so that the teacher's computer at the front could remotely control any of the other computers or moniters. My C++ teacher used it to turn off all the moniters, and had the immediate attention of everyone in the room when he did. My "computerized accounting" teacher didn't, and had to repeat directions over and over because people were fooling around while she was talking.

    My world history teacher demands printed resources attached to all research papers. He then checks the resources against the paper to check for obvious signs of plagiarism. Yet he still catches people every time a paper is due. Many people figure the obvious solution is to copy a resource and not turn it in, but the teacher also checks against the resources of students doing the same topic. It still amazes me that people still get caught copying.

    Don't use so-called "Distance Learning" unless you know exactly what you're getting into. While learning about the electromagnetic spectrum, we did a so-called "distance learning" whatsis with a couple of people who essentially turned out to be artists. They talked about things like the "color wheel," which had no bearing on what we were doing in class. Additionally, the other time we did "Distance Learning" we were constantly having technical difficulties, giving us sound but no image.

  16. Remember that teaching is the goal, not technology by k12linux · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I have a fairly extensive technology background, but basically zero teaching background. This means I can do a great job of proving servers and infrastructure, but not in evaluating how tech should fit into the classroom. As a result I can't really train our teachers on that aspect either.

    That is something that needs to be done by someone who knows how to teach. This also means that simply installing new tech and showing the teachers how it works is not enough. Money has to be budgeted to provide real curriculum integration. Money to is needed to provide training, and to get the teachers to attend the training.

    Unfortunately from what I've seen during this era of budget cuts, these integration inservices seem to be getting slashed early on. Worse yet, when they are offered, they are after hours and teachers aren't willing to attend... even for a stipend.

    We have a very good tech infrastructure in our schools and a lot of tools that our teachers could use. Unfortunately only a handful know what's available, know how to use it, and know how to fit it into their curriculum correctly. The worst ones try to make the computer be a teacher instead of using it as just another tool.

    I'd be interested in hearing what other schools have done about these training issues.

    I'm in shape... "pear" is a shape, right?

  17. why computers in school....? by nicknameaaron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the weird things for me is to visit schools in California and the principal, time and time again, walks up and says: "Let me show you my wonderful computer lab." There are rows and rows of Apple Macintoshes, and PCs. My first question is not: How fast are they, or how many are there? My first question is: What did this computer lab used to be? The answer is telling: "Oh, this room? It used to be the music studio, but we don't teach music here anymore." "This computer lab? Oh, this was the art room. We don't teach art." "This multi-media system? This used to be the library, but we got rid of the books and installed computers."

    Quote-Clifford Stoll

  18. Re:You forgot the part about... by k12linux · · Score: 2, Funny
    My favorite story is of a friend who had two 3-inch tall stacks of cards (about 800 cards I think) sitting on his desk in his dorm room. They were carefully rubber banded because they were not numbered or marked.

    His room mate (a jock type) walked in, saw the cards, unbanded them, shuffled them, banded them back up, then left. My friend sat there for about 5 minutes with his mouth open then crashed his head to the table. I almost thought he was going to cry. I didn't stick around to see what happened next. It was just too painful to watch. lol

  19. Worst and Best by octalgirl · · Score: 2, Informative

    The worst was a health teacher who just sent the kids willy-nilly into a lab to do research on SEX! Unbelievable! Unsupervised! 10th graders were searching sex, protection, diseases, etc. Nothing but porn was popping up! (this was before filters) We were all just dumbfounded in the tech dept.

    Best was a home-ec teacher who asked first the best approach to bring her class in for the first time. We explained about proper research, and that the Internet was just another tool for research, not a replacement for the library and other means. And also, that a teacher should do a few searches that they expect the students to do, so they can see for themselves what type of hits they'll be getting. So she came in with magazines and newspapers, and a paper typed up with good search words to use for the research, 3 links that she deemed worth looking into, and a requirement that one of their sources had to come from the library or one of the magazines she brought in. It was very well put together, and the students responded in good academic fashion, unlike the porn kids where it was utter chaos and embarassment.