Slashdot Mirror
The IT Market: Cyclical Downturn or New World Order?
An anonymous reader wrote: "CNN.com is running an interesting story on the heels of a Forrester
Research report concerning the
shift of high tech jobs from the U.S. to places like China, India, and Russia for cheaper labor and got me thinking about the nature
of the current downtrend in programmer demand in the U.S (as opposed to the "morality" of such a shift). While I'm sure the causes for this downtrend are variable, the more important
question in my mind is this -- Is software guru Bruce Eckel correct in
saying that the current downturn represents a temporary blip in the business cycle as jobs are shifted from large and medium companies to smaller companies,
or are Andy Hunt and Dave Thomas correct in recognizing this as
a new reality. Personally I tend to agree with Hunt and Thomas's view (which is not completely opposed to Bruce's opinion, btw) and
I also agree with their viewpoint that protectionist policies like H1B quotas and tariffs won't work to change anything for the better. So what do you think? Is this
just another business cycle or is this a New World Order in IT?"
You have to say this: the man certainly knew how to run a quality burger restaurant. And I can't imagine those skills aren't transferrable to IT.
"That's Dave's Way.."
"But the race to the bottom can happen at all levels of employment..."
Oh really? So when did corporations start outsourcing their outrageously-paid executives to India?
You must be referring to my MCSE...
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
Once again this topic comes up on Slashdot. I remember a quote one time (cant remember where to link) but the jist of it was that while cheaper labor, they provide a different mind set to projects. The poster mentioned that American programmers have a better problem solving mindset, while Indian programmers could spit out more generalized code much much faster and could do math based programming better. While I don't necessarily agree with this, it did bring up a good point in my mind, and that's the old "right tool (or programmer) for the right job". It's too bad that businesses see it in dollars, not sense and leave a lot of good American programmers without work, and put Indian programmers on programming tasks they would better suited for.
But back to this threads topic, I do think that it is a trend that will be difficult to break. The reason is saturation of programmers in America. Partially because during the IT boom, everyone and their mother went to get a programming degree, which left the US market saturated with programmers that were in it for the money, not because they loved it. I think that's the root cause of the US IT employment woes, just like in the early to mid 80's when everyone went the MBA's. And in about 10 years the same thing will happen, a new fad market will arise (legalized marijuana growth is my hope...) and the saturated market will subside. That's just my opinion...
David Horsey, the Pulitzer-winning editorial cartoonist for the Seattle PI, had a similar view.
True enough, the people of china for instance might be better off today than they were some 20 years ago because of production being moved there from foreign companies.
Who knows, when they think keeping production there isnt generating enough profit, they might even outsorce it to some african country...
But just because there are upsides does not mean that there are no downsides!
Cheaply produced chicken for instance, pumped with water to increase weight, moved half way across the globe packed with conservatives is one downside for instance. Just because it is cheaper does not always mean that it is better. Competing in screwing each other over is one competition id rather pass.
True ravers don't need drugs
Cheaply produced chicken for instance, pumped with water to increase weight, moved half way across the globe packed with conservatives is one downside for instance.
:)
Wow, as a conservative myself (economically speaking), I have to agree that being packed into a chicken would definitely be a downside to anything. Although having water pumped in would be nice, I mean, if I have to be packed into a chicken, at least it should have running water available, right?
everything in moderation
> Cheaply produced chicken for instance, pumped
> with water to increase weight, moved half way
> across the globe packed *with conservatives* is
> one downside for instance.
(emphasis added)
You know, I'd really have to weigh the benefits of that one. I'm opposed to commercial mass-farming of animals, but if they were stuffed with the likes of Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage...mmm...
(I think you meant preservatives, but I can dream)
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
(fucking candians, taking all of our jobs)
Candians? Are those natives of Candyland©?
--- What
Highly skilled folks in the rest of the world have been dealing with this for years -- they all learned English to compete. Now it's our turn.
You mean, we have to learn English?
But...but...that means spell-checking our posts...and using punctuation correctly...and, my God, grammar?!?
The horror, the horror.