Slashdot Mirror


Risk Management For Electronics on Aircraft

Phronesis writes "M. Granger Morgan and his graduate student Bill Strauss have a nice article in Issues in Science and Technology about the risks posed by electronic devices in flight. Unlike most articles on the subject, this one neither pooh-poohs the risks ('We have estimated that reported events are occurring at a rate of about 15 and perhaps as many as 25 per year') nor exaggerates them ('RF interference from consumer electronics is unlikely to have figured in more than a few percent of commercial air accidents, if any at all, during the past 10 years.'). Instead, it presents a sensible plan for dealing with the risks that will accompany the inevitable expansion of the range of electronic devices passengers will use in flight, including cell phones and wireless computer networking."

25 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. Interference overrated? by MrMickS · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given the amount of electronics involved used in the automotive industry these days wouldn't the impact of cellphones have shown up here earlier? (Of course I'm excluding people who attempt to drive with one hand holding the handset, the other leafing through a document and steering with their knees).

    --
    You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    1. Re:Interference overrated? by Gibble · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cars don't fall out of the sky. any intereference is easily managed since you can still control the car, despite many electronics the steering and brakes "should" always stay working.

      You in theory could lose your power steering and have it reverted to manual, but that's not a big deal and should happen since the power steering pump is still operated by the engine not the computer in most cars, you would most likely just mess up frivilous features in your car.

      But even that is extremely unlikely. Your more likely to get in an accident because you aren't paying attention to the road because of a call, than your are because your phone messed up the computer on your car.

      --
      Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality
  2. Good recommendations by TopShelf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Probably the most useful recommendation in this article is the following:

    Developing and deploying simple real-time tools to help flight crews detect RF emissions. If airline cabins were equipped with RF detectors, then flight crews could take corrective action when strong electromagnetic emissions occurred. The utility of equipping flight crews with easy-to-use hand-held RF detectors also warrants investigation.

    Flight crews could be equipped with handheld RF detectors relatively quickly, which would not only help enforce existing FAA rules regarding inflight use of passenger electronics, but also help gather data that could form the basis of more long-term solutions.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  3. No heartbeat for you! by Endareth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The FAA specifies that, "no person may operate...any portable electronic device on any...aircraft" unless an airline has determined that use of the device "will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used."

    One has to wonder if any airline has tested whether pacemakers can cause interference?

    --
    Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
  4. Bugs in airplane controls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work as a consultant for an airline, and thus post anonymously :)

    I know that an Airbus once had to restart all the control systems in the air, one by one, to get below 8000 feet. Before the restart, the plane's controls wouldn't let the pilot get below 8000 feet. If I had been the pilot, I'd demand some R&R after landing. :-)

    1. Re:Bugs in airplane controls by krysith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do wonder how many incidents of "RF Interference" have really been incidents of "I can't find the cause, so it must be RF Interference". Software bugs often cause hard-to-find problems. I have been a product manager for an RF device used in hospitals, and occasionally we run into problems for which we can't find the cause. The problem happens, then the problem goes away. I think most troubleshooters have experienced something like that. Well, we always figure it must be "RF Interference" or a "Software Bug". But frankly, we don't really know, because we can't reproduce it.
      I wonder exactly how reproducible these incidents of RF interference are. I bet if there was a navigational problem which went away when you turned off Joe Businesstraveller's laptop, that the flight crew isn't going to turn it back on to verify that it actually is the source of the problem.

  5. What I'd like to see... by jdreed1024 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article is all well and good, and I'm glad to see that someone's finally doing objective, detailed studies of this, rather than banning devices indiscriminately.

    However, I'd like to see some sort of official ruling stating exactly which devices can and can't be operated at certain points during the flight. Ideally, this would apply internationally, too (though I'm not sure how that would be regulated, since the FAA has little jurisdiction internationally). I find extremely frustrating when one airline says a device is ok, and another does not. For example, I brough my portable CD player on a flight (a 13 hour flight) and was told I could not use it, because it would interfere with the aircraft's systems. This was on a relatively new 747-400. This was rather annoying, since on the same type of aircraft, 6 months prior to this, a different airline specifically said portable CD players (and tape players, etc) were ok.

    Ideally, the FCC, or UL, or some organization could put a little marking on the back of any electronic device to designate whether or not it is acceptable to use during flight. For example, it could be a letter system where "A" indicates that it may never be used (ie: tesla coil); "B" indicates it may be used at any time (digital watch/PDA), "C" indicate it may be used except during takeoff/landing (ie: walkman). Then, instead of having to explain to the stewardess that your PDA does not transmit any RF signals, they could simply look at the back, see the letter "C", and go on their way.

    Inconsistency in general (security checkpoints (before the TSA), airline policies, etc) is one of the most frustrating things to me as an airline traveler, and a policy like this could help solve the problem of being able to use my Palm Pilot on one airline, but not other.

    --
    There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
    1. Re:What I'd like to see... by MathFox · · Score: 2, Interesting
      One of the problems is that the effects of Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) vary among the different models of airplanes. A Boeing 747 has mechanical steering and the pilot can take over from the autopilot when it acts weird. In a "fly by wire" Airbus the pilot may lose all control over the airplane due to RFI when it hits the controls.

      For that reason it is unavoidable that in different planes different equipment is deemed acceptable. Even a simple division in classes may be impossible because some planes may be more sensitive to certain frequency bands than others.

      --
      extern warranty;
      main()
      {
      (void)warranty;
      }
  6. This is the REAL problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
  7. Re:Airline-mode? by L.+VeGas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    God, I hope not. I avoided getting a cell phone as long as I could because I enjoy the solitude of driving and don't like to be interrupted. My employer finally forced me to carry one during all working hours.

    Now, the only time I can be free of this pest is when I fly. If that goes away too, I don't know, I might just lose it, in more ways than one.

  8. Frequencies of Small Electronic Devices by LoneStarGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have had small items like Walkmans, Cell Phones and PDAs checked by airport security at checkpoints before. I think they are generally looking for explosive devices etc. I wonder if there is a list of device frequencies that are verbotten on airliners? This would have to be a frequently updated list of devices for the airport security and in-flight personnel to keep track of. Seems like the communications, fly-by-wire and navigation devices would be restricted to a limited bandwidth. I know it is common practice at RC Aircraft Model flying fields to limit who has what frequency. Otherwise there would be lots of little craters in the ground when someones controls get overridden by another radio.

    1. Re:Frequencies of Small Electronic Devices by confused+one · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The limitation on RC aircraft is for the reason you mentioned -- if two people are using the same frequency then you likely end up with two self destructing (upon impacting the ground) aircraft.

      Interference, by definition, can happen even if the devices aren't in your limited bandwidth window. I've seen a 10Mhz transmitter interfering with audio equipment. I've seen a desktop computer interfere with a radio receiver. I've seen a supposedly shielded RF source (used as a frequency reference inside some equipment) interfere with supposedly shielded instruments.

      It's not a likely scenerio; but, imagine if you will: Your sitting in a seat in the passenger cabin, next to the window. Your cell phone is on and actively seeking a cell site -- transmitting at around 1 watt. In the wall (or floor) of the plane, exactly where you're sitting, is a cable (wiring) for the flight controls -- including perhaps a connector. The connector's not technically bad, but, there's enough contact resistance that it acts somewhat like a diode and rectifies the RF imposed onto the wire(s) by your cell phone's transmission. This becomes a slight DC bias in flight controls signal. Your plane crashes because the bias causes the plane's computer to overestimate the amount of fuel in the tank by several inches, resulting in an engine stall when that tank unexpectantly runs out of fuel...

      As I said, not likely; but, plausible. Murphy's Law is like that...

  9. Re:Dialing.. Dialing.. by kannibal_klown · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nobody's saying that. The problem is with the landing and taking off. Airlines "say" that the RF interference might mess up the ILS landing system by a few degrees or cause static on some of the electronic instruments. Normal flight isn't that instrument sensitive, but the landing and takeoff are. Sure, they say some devices might screw with the plane in-flight. In this case, "some" airlines just have a blanket statement saying no electronic devices.

    Personally, I don't think this is 100% true, but big friggin deal. I'd only be pissed if I was told my cd player or gameboy couldn't be used during thw "WHOLE" flight, but that has yet to happen to me, and I go on several flights a year.

  10. Please, no! by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Do airlines that require all mobile phones to be switched off allow exceptions for some new phones such as the Sony-Erikson P800 which provide a non-cellular Airline mode?

    God, I hope not. On Amtrak, nowadays, you get five hours of everyone around you shouting into their phones*. It's a blessing that planes ban them -- I shudder to think what a cross-continent flight would be like with phones allowed. Besides, as someone else said, they have a nice revenue source from they phones that they don't want to cut into.

    * Mostly illustrating how utterly pointless their jobs are: "Mary? Mary? It's Bill! I'm on the train! Could you call Jeff and ask him if he got the fax Linda faxed to me? Call me back!" If anything, there seems to be too little white-collar unemployment.

  11. What about changing the wiring? by jdhutchins · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article states that RF devices may induce currents in airplane wiring. I'm not sure how much commercial airliners cost, but I know it's probably well over 50 million. How much would it cost to use fiber optics instead of twisted-pair wiring? I'm sure relative to the cost of the airplane, it wouldn't be much, and that would eliminate having interference with the wires that must be run throughout the aircraft.

    I don't know how much of the concern has to do with the computers themselves recieving interference, but I don't think it's that much. People use cell phones around computers all the time, and I don't think it causes any problems.

    The only problem left then is potential interference with airplane navagation and communication systems. Again, the most critical times are when it's closest to the ground (takeoff and landing), but in those environments, I'd expect there to be a lot of cell phone usage by people in the airport, and that would (probably) cause as much interference as people in the plane.

    The pilots and flight attendants that are blaming malfunctions on passenger RF interference aren't qualified to talk about it. They say "plane is having problems, passenger is using laptop, therefore laptop is causing problems". They don't have a clue what does and doesn't cause interference, and you'd have to get someone who knows the subject to tell me that that's the case before I'll believe it.

  12. It's all about the sources... by dmayle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, let's see. In the first incident mentioned, testimony comes from:

    • National Transportation Safety Board
    • American Airlines
    • Allied Pilot's Association
    • Association of Professional Flight Attendants

    We're supposed to take the word of these obviously unbiased expert electrical engineers that EM interference was the cause of the error. A bunch of groups, some of which have glaringly obvious vested interests in not finding fault with the pilots, suddenly are a bunch of expert electrical engineers.

    Even if if they didn't have ulterior motives, they aren't experts in EM, and we're supposed to take their word on the matter? Obviously not... And yet, that's what the author does, by presupposing that someone looking for a straw man constitutes any sort of "proof" of incidents. There's NO way that there could be a problem with the instruments, either in hardware in software, since we ALL know that hardware and software engineers are perfect, so it must've been that guy in first class with laptop...

    While the author admits that the inflight ban of cell phones has nothing to do with interference reasons (it just makes life more difficult for the cell phone providers), he tries to justify fearmongering whithout any basis in fact...

    What a waste of a read...

  13. Common Sense... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...'RF interference from consumer electronics is unlikely to have figured in more than a few percent of commercial air accidents, if any at all, during the past 10 years.'...

    If you don't mind adding to your chances of being in that few percent then, by all means, be my guest and keep that phone/notebook/whatever switched on when you're asked to have it switched off.

    On the other hand, if you want to minimise your chances of being in that few percent, switch off your device when asked to. A few minutes with your phone/notebook/whatever off isn't going to kill you but a few minutes with it on just might.

    When travelling, your priority should be getting from A to B safely. You wouldn't deliberately stick your head out of a train window as it was about to travel through a tunnel so why take similar risks (with the safety of others and not just yourself) when travelling on a plane?

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  14. Is Boeing listening, I wonder? by KC7GR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That was an excellent article. Easily one of the best I've ever read on the issue. One passage in particular caught my eye.

    "But faced with the slimming down of work forces, expanding job responsibilities, and the retirement of older personnel who had specialized knowledge and experience in electromagnetic compatibility, the potential for problems increases..."

    Boeing has already laid off a huge number of engineers, more than I think they ever should have, all in the name of "Shareholder Value."

    I wonder where the "Shareholder Value" will be if the lack of one or more of those laid-off older guys, many of whom probably had all the knowledge ever needed regarding electromagnetic noise, will cause serious problems when future airliners are not properly designed, in terms of their avionics and wiring, to stave off interference problems?

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

  15. I'm just curious by AchilleTalon · · Score: 3, Interesting
    and ignorant. So, I am asking the question. What about few thousands RFID tags in luggages and litterally stuffed in all goods in a not so far future?

    And a little bit lazy, I must admit, to search the web for technical info on RFID tags, frequencies, modes of operation, range, etc...

    So, if someone else and knowledgeable can answer it, I will be glad.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
  16. Wow, it's like 9-11 never happened by roystgnr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Shouldn't the threshold for airplane sensitivity to RF interference from passengers be much higher now that we've realized the possibility that any of the passengers may be malicious and suicidal? If we're worried about stuff like CD players that is designed to run for hours with minimized EM emissions, then aren't we completely vulnerable to electronics of the same size designed to put 100% of their power output into EM interference, to do so in a big burst at the worst possible time, and to superficially look just like any of the other electronic gadgetry that gets by airport luggage screeners with no trouble?

  17. To the moon, alice! by jasno · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why not just make the passenger compartment a faraday cage? Completely isolate it from the rest of the aircraft(separate, filtered power and comm lines). Coat the windows with a conductive film, and then even if some idiot turns on his cell fone its not going to interfere with anything, much less get a signal.

    Then, since the passengers will be properly separated from the crew we can drop all of the stupid pocket knife restrictions and fire half of the new airport security folks.

    If the airlines weren't such a bloated, subsidized monstrosity, they might have solved this by now.

    --

    http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
  18. Re:Just shut yer frigging phone off for 2 minutes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Given all the trouble flying airlines, I'm surprised more people don't do what I did. Get a pilots license and fly yourself. Its like the difference between taking a bus everywhere and owning your own car. Get in and go, when you want, where you want. It may cost a little more but convenience and time saved may well be worth it.

  19. Of AM Radios and Chaff, and Cell Phones by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Regarding a cheap portable RF emissions detector: get an AM radio. They are nicely sensitive to the pulsed and chopped energies emitted by digital electronics.

    Regarding shielding: airlines could mix in chaff (strips of metal) into the plastic used for aircraft interiors. This would deaden the RF environment inside the aircraft and prevent strong reflections and concentrations of RF energy in inappropriate locations. Of course, it would kill cell phone reception once you step inside the plane

    BTW, Cell phones should not be used at gas stations either. Some analyses suggest that an actively transmitting cell phone could create a coronal discharge from the metal on a car that could ignite gasoline fumes. Its not very likely to happen, but the consequences are none too pleasant.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  20. Re:Airline-mode? by DonGar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems like it would be a lot smarter if the phone manufactorers and the airlines got together to produce phones that automatically know to switch themselves off, or into airline mode.

    In theory, you could have transponders in the planes that told all devices what was currently 'acceptable' usage.

    If the standard was widely adapted, it could help with movie theatres and other similar situations.

    --
    plus-good, double-plus-good
  21. Re:This is silly. by confused+one · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Ahhh, I see (says the blind man). I agree with the detector. Your right. Unfortunately, the terrorist type will always find a way. If the plane is shielded against consumer electronics, he could rig up a kW level (burst) RF generator in his luggage. (hopefully no one will try this)

    Bringing planes up to snuff shouldn't be too hard; but, most of the airlines are on hard economic times. (They asked the government for the money to add the armored cockpit doors after all -- which I think should have been their responsibility). I tend to agree with you; but, I just don't see the airlines doing this until they have to.