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X-Plane - An Obsession For Realism
caseih writes "Popular Science is running an article on Austin Meyer, the creator of the popular X-Plane flight simulator. Although not an open source project, X-Plane has a devoted community of flight enthusiasts and developers who are striving to make it the most realistic flight simulator ever. In fact, flight characteristics are calculated in real time from aircraft design data, not static tables like MS Flight Simulator. PopSci has a neat picture showing X-Plane calculating the lift-drag vectors in real-time across an aircraft. Meyer's quest for realism in his simulations dominates the development and use of X-Plane."
Back in the day, it ran fine on my 233Mhz G3 (as long as I cranked the graphics down), and supposedly it's actually been getting more efficient in recent releases.
I am not familiar with X plane , but I wonder how it compares to the Flightgear project. One of the advantages of that project being open source was extensibilty. The project has all sorts of modding potential.
apt-get install flightgear for all you deb heads.
runs on win32 also
Why do that when there is a perfectly good open source flight simulator available in the guise of FlightGear?
If these people contributed that passionately to FlightGear then it would be awesome.
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You may not have noticed this, but X-Plane is sold as a game. It's in the game section. When you ask for a list of games, there it is. People may use it as a serious training aid, but for every person who does that, there's probably several who use it as a `game'.
You say potatoe, I say potato ...
You could always try Orbiter. http://www.orbitersim.com
I agree that real time calculations of forces and stuff is really cool, but can you really tell a difference from that and pre-calculated data?
Martin
I guess I can't really comment on the accuracy, having not actually flown a plane. Also, on the scale of "Flight sim hardcore rankings", I'm really just a dilettante. (OK, that rarely stops people on the forums, but it's just not my style.) But I can comment on the processing power needed to run the dynamic model, and so can you.
The demo is free, runs on Windows and OSX, which is Austin's preferred development platform. Since it is a demo, it only lets you control the plane for a few minutes, but it will let you see how quickly he can do the aerodynamic calculations and experience the realism for yourself.
My opinion: Performance is ok but not great on my 500Mhz G3 ibook (although it is quite playable). It is pretty spiffy on my Athlon 2100. The video cards probably have a lot to do with that, too, not just the aerodynamic model.
FlightGear Flight Simulator is free and multiplatform also. Those who have the knowledge can help them out: http://flightgear.org/
> But if you want something as niche as a world class flight simulator, sorry, you're probably not gonna get it open source.
"The FlightGear flight simulator project is an open-source, multi-platform, cooperative flight simulator development project. Source code for the entire project is available and licensed under the GNU General Public License.
The goal of the FlightGear project is to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for use in research or academic environments, for the development and pursuit of other interesting flight simulation ideas, and as an end-user application. We are developing a sophisticated, open simulation framework that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing."
-- <http://www.flightgear.org/>
There's a bunch of user-built aircrafts available. X-Plane comes with an aircraft modelling program.
I'm not an X-Plane user myself, so I don't know how difficult it is to build a model that actually flies. If the physics are really realistic, that'd be quite a challenge. The plane building program will probably lend you a hand, though...
Baumi
X-plane already simulates both Space Shuttles and flying experimental planes on Mars, as well as other space-going crafts. Heck you can even take off into space with a Rocket!!
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
I'm quite annoyed by the parent argument. I know of more than one aviation lab that has approached Meyer and said "we would like this change or alteration made. how much?" and they have recieved by return of email, absolutely for free, modified versions of the software. He could of made thousands each time. Meyer is thought of very highly in these circles. Its an almost unique attitude towards customers that I find incredibly impressive. Puts a different spin on it huh. You can't argue the guy is some sort of profiteer; he's doing *free* bespoke programming for no reward. Why begrudge him the means to earn a living?
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
Yes, dynamic modelling is better than static tables. Not only is the performance more in line with reality, but it allows people to design airfoils and aircraft with the included software, and test their performance before any parts are fabricated. No guess work. Real engineering.
:)
It's a hackers dream, because ALL of the flight controls and flight data can be imported/exported over a network. It also has a very sensible plugin system, and the author encourages people to come up with new and cool tools without any licensing restrictions. It might not be open source, but the architecture is very open.
X-Plane is the flight simulator of choice for many companies, including Scaled Composites, the builders of Spaceship One. It's also FAA approved for training towards commercial, transport, and instrument certificates.
Not only is the flight model incredibly accurate, but you also have to deal with differences in traction between tires on a wet runway, damaged windscreens from hail, and more equipment failures than you can shake a stick at.
It's amazingly beautiful with a reasonable graphics card and the latest scenery plugins, and it can use real-time weather information from NOAA.
It's not a toy or a game, even though it may be fun. It's as close to flying as you can get on your PC. I could go on and on, but it's probably better that you head to the web site.
http://www.x-plane.com/
I have been using X-Plane for a few years and I and my pilot friends use it. My only real dissappointment was when Austin canceled the Linux port, but 6.x will run under wine now, haven't tried 7.x betas.
X-Plane is the only FAA training approved consumer package available. Read the front page on the web site, people have been using this flight program for a couple of years now to model aircraft behaviour during development.
I think you may be confusing ease of flight or level of fun with realistic physics. I had a couple of programs for my bro-in-law to practice with while he was taking flight lessons and he too latched onto X-Plane.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
It's absolutly amazing that Austin could achieve this, but the project is getting at it's limits. Why?
Even the 4th release candidate still has quality issues, or, with a less friendly word: bugs. The user interface is really, really bad. Not only does it use custom widgets, but the widgets do not follow the usual expectations. The dialogs behave strangely (exit buttons), and, for example, if you increase the rendering quality, the system drops you down to the nearest airport, which comes handy if you're flying a 747 and you end up on a helipad.
People also develop flight models and (photo)realistic landscapes (e.g. the Global Scenery Project or, e.g., Cormac Shaw's high-detail scenery for Ireland and his Aer Lingus Jets at the Irish Hub.) Stuff like that generally works much better, and there is a great variety to choose from!
I also tried to evaluate FlightGear. This project is not anywhere near X-Plane. If I'm not mistaken, they only accurately simulate piston engines (other engines are a weak approximation). Besides, FlightGear doesn't compile if you don't have certain libraries installed, which turned out to be a pain on OS X...
That said, I believe that FlightGear may outperform X-Plane in a couple of years. Until then, I'll stick with X-Plane...
>Oh, and they fail to grasp: flight sim experience might as easily save a plane, as doom it. What if some nutter shoots the flight crew? A flight trained passenger could save everybody's necks.
Oh PLEASE!!! You have NO idea. I'm an instrument rated private pilot, and there is simply no way you're going to land that 747 with just some X-Plane experience. It would be a high pucker factor even for someone like me. You just can't get the seat of the pants experience with X-Plane, and yes I have used it...it's a great simulator.
Just another day in Paradise
Nope, OpenGL is not covered by the GPL, it is covered by an X style license now and was covered by several commercial licenses from SGI in the past. See This
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That's simply not true: I'm currently studying for my PPL in England, and one of the things you are taught is how to deal with spiral dives and stalls.
/.'ers seem to love it.
Now, no matter what I do in MS Flight Simulator, in whatever plane, have I ever been able to enduce a spiral dive or spin. (Trust me, it's real easy in a plane. That's why they teach you how to recover.)
And the low speed stall, particularly in the Cessna model, is a lot more benign than the real thing.
That said, MSFS is great for learning instrument work. And if you want to practise a hundred circuits, or the effects of cross-wind on landings then its good.
But I shall try X-Plane, certainly,
--- My dad's political betting
That's scary... I was making respectable landings slipping in with 10kt crosswinds by my 6th hour of airtime. That probably amounted to 15 touch and goes.
I wish you weren't AC, I'd like to make sure you're never my pilot :)
.sigs are for post^Hers.
I had a run-in with the X-plane people (Basically Austin and his buddy Mike Brown on sales) over their "guaranteed upgrades for life." In a word, they lied. Furthermore, they continue to lie, and are absolute ASSHOLES about it.
To be specific here, they will always make the latest patch available for the current version. That is, if they're developing X-P 6.x, then the latest 6.x patch is available. However...
1) You cannot get any older patches. This is a problem because several times the current versions has been buggy, unstable, or broken.
2) Once the initial 7.x release is out, you are absolutely SOL on downloading the final 6.x patch. He will NOT provide it under any circumstances, once he's decided to get rid of 'free support for life' on a previous version.
I'm sorry to have to post this. I think that X-P is a really cool program. I'm utterly amazed at how far he's gotten with it. However, his code review (poor), attitude ("fuck you!"), and flat out lying on support all lead to something that I'll never drop money on again.
Pity, really. If he lost his ego, he'd write better software.
You can read more about it here.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I'm a 2-year user of X-Plane, although I confess I've not been following the v7 beta stuff (I've stuck with 6.60 for now). I've logged hundreds of hours on the sim, and tinkered with the other tools available (e.g. I've modified aircraft etc).
X-Plane is a fantastic piece of work for a single person to have to his name. Probably the highest praise I can think to give it, is that it's not only the best at what it tries to do - simulate flight of all kinds - but it's also usable.
Having said all that, usable is about as far as it goes. It's not, and has never set out to be, a polished application with a glitzy UI. The interface for the sim and the tools is good enough and no better. If you need to get out and see what'll happen to an NF-104 at 100K feet when the control surfaces fail on you, then X-Plane is for you. But be prepared to adapt to it's interface, rather than have it teach you.
I've been looking at FlightGear recently too. And about all I can say about this right now is that it's clearly got promise, it looks good, but there's a looonnggg way to go. At least X-Plane lets me choose aircraft from a file selector dialog; I have to shut down FlightGear and use a different command line switch to load a new aircraft. It's clearly still very much for the Geeks for now, wheras I know there are professional pilots using X-plane.
--
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Actaully, all aircraft for x-plane are made with 'Plane-Maker' which is included with it, as well as World Maker, Airfoil Maker.
:)
These do require a LOT of work to make them fly properly, you have to design the shape of the aircraft in just about every aspect, assign weights, engines and power, everything is modeled, not based on a precomputed statstics table, right down to how the fuel in the tanks will effect weight, balance, and inertia.
This is why several companies such as Carter Copter (http://www.cartercopters.com), Piper Aircraft (http://www.piperaircraft.com/) and others use x-plane for development and testing of aircraft.
Carter Copter trained pilots for its new aircraft in X-Plane before the aircraft ever went airborn. Piper now makes its aircraft available as x-plane models for demoing to potiential customers. Bell uses it to keep its helicopter pilots certified on its experimental aircraft when they can't actually use the real thing. There is also an fragment of an email from Dave Rose (Biplane racing pilot) on the x-plane home page. He modeled his plane in x-plane as close as he could, and the race area, then after lots of practice, went out in the real aircraft and set a new record. Of course, the pilot had the skill to do it, but the simulator obviously had to be pretty realistic.
Mind you, to experience the simulation like these guys do, you need hardware to go with it, but the software is there. They use the same thing you get when you buy X-Plane as a normal home user.
And just a slight MSFS rant... compare x-plane 7 to MSFS2k4. Flight model wise: the wright brothers flier in MSFS2k4 flies almost exactly like the Lear45... just a lot slower. Graphics: MSFS excels here in populated areas where there are photo scenery packages available, and x-plane has none to speak of (with the exception of SoCal which is on www.x-plane.org) Outside those areas, its nothing special. Aircraft panels... well, MSFS doesn't have squat on X-Plane there, I've yet to see one in MSFS that looked 'good'. They both have ATC, both do alright, although neither is that great at simulating large ammounts of other traffic such as you would find at a large airport, however, both do have the ability to connect to VATSIM in order to fly with hundreds of other virtual pilots around the world. There is also somewhere a 'MMORPG' based on x-plane in development, haven't seen it in a long while, but it looked promising, last I saw it you could fly with several aircraft around you, and the ATC was automatic if no one was doing live ATC for that airport, neat stuff... but seems to have disappeared (this is all much like VATSIM of course). Give x-plane some photo realistic scenery and I think its just a superior product all around, definatly from the simulator standpoint, and from the game side as well.
I'm only disappointed I paid for msfs2k4, now I have to go buy x-plane7 (Yes, I shelled out the money for x-plane6). Okay, so now I sound like a x-plane salesman, so I'm just gonna shut up
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
If this is remotely true I am very worried about the next flight I take. I did my PhD in use of CFD (for liquid flows rather than gas flows but the basics apply) and for simple flow over a sphere to simulate one timestep of 0.5 milliseconds required 15 minutes on a 500MHz dual processor machine using software used in the aeronautics industry.
This is of the order of a million times slower than real time.
Some approximations must be being made for the lift calculations, approximations that make me suspicious of its utility in aerospace design.
FlightGear is designed to simulate more than just piston aircraft "accurately", though accuracy is infinitely arguable. FlightGear supports multiple types of aerodynamics models, including LaRCsim (developed at the NASA Langley Research Center), JSBSim, and YASim, the latter of which simulates performance based on aircraft 3d geometry, much like X-Plane's flight model.
A flight model developed by UIUC is also supported which is capable of modeling nonlinear aerodynamics.
This is why the FAA only approves X-Plane for training when used with a motion platform.
I own a motorcycle. A fast motorcycle (a Suzuki Hayabusa).
Anybody telling me that piloting a fast sports bike in whatever simulation comes anywhere near the real thing with wind, rush and G-forces tickling your fear and adrenaline buttons as you push the bike to the tarmac in sharp curves at 300 km/h (175 mph) have probably never been on two wheels, just in their little safe steel cage on four.
Saying that it's even close to the same thing to be on one of those arcade-style simulators, even one where you lean the bike (which is about as close as you can get in bike sim), is a ridiculous statement.
That's my first point: a sim is nowhere close to the real thing. You can get useful lessons for the real thing from a sim if you are actively doing both, but otherwise, forget it.
Now for my second point: An aggressive low-flying sportsbike has 2 (two) important gauges. Speed and RPM. You can ignore the speedometer. Most of the time, you can ignore the RPM gauge too (you get that info from the engine noise anyway).
How many gauges are there on a 747, and how many of these can you routinely ignore?
Subscribe to the xplane-tech list at yahoo and see what his customers really think.
No there isn't. This is a classic urban legend "I heard from a guy whose cousin..." etc. You ask the guy's cousin, he actually heard it from a barber. You will never find any actual witness or evidence. There's a million stories like this. See Urban Legends Reference Pages for a few others.
Aside from many based on real aircraft (including dirigibles, space shuttles, etc) ther are some wacky ones at X-plane.org. Such as a TARDIS the teleports, and a Steinway Model D Concert Grand Piano that "glides" (down, very quickly).
This is true of passenger planes, but an equally fuel-laden cargo plane is just as deadly a weapon, and there is only the small crew to overcome.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
Moreover, FlightGear, because it is open source, can be tweaked, modified, optimized. .
This sig is a test. If this had been an actual sig, you would be reading something quite a bit wittier than this now.