Greece Warned Over Games Ban

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Posted by simoniker on Friday July 25, 2003 @07:02PM from the destroy-all-joypads-now dept.

Thanks to GameSpot for their article discussing the European Commission's formal warning to Greece over the country's attempt to ban all videogames last year. The article summarizes: "The law stirred up anger and disbelief after it resulted in several arrests and the closure of Internet cafes. Although Greece later clarified that the law only prohibits gambling-related games, the EC was 'unsatisfied' with the response and has sent a formal notice requesting more information." According to a lawyer familiar with the case, "The way the Greek law was drafted was an absolute mess. It was drafted so widely that using a PlayStation at home would amount to a breach of the law - which is ridiculous." Would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for that meddling European Commission.

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Is it just me... by leviramsey · 2003-07-25 20:33 · Score: 0, Offtopic

...or is Greece trying their hardest to embarrass themselves nowadays?

I mean, first of all it's far from certain that all the construction required for next-year's Olympics in Athens will be completed on time. Indeed, substantial portions of the construction have yet to even start, and the mess of building regulations (especially concerning archaeological finds) makes construction iffy. It's only the Olympics, the biggest sporting event on Earth (especially in financial terms), and if Greece comes off looking poorly in this, it makes them look bad to nearly every country on Earth.

Then, on top of that, they've got an incompetently worded ban on videogames... Jesus H Christ!
1. Re:Is it just me... by Pentagram · 2003-07-26 00:07 · Score: 1
  
  Heh
  
  Did you miss Greece arresting a bunch of plane spotters for spying last year?
2. Re:Is it just me... by isorox · 2003-07-26 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  To be fair to the Greeks, the spotters had been warned several times at previous airports, ignored massive signs in their language not to take pictures, ignored verbal warnings, and were taking pictures of military airports.
Coals to Newcastle by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-25 22:02 · Score: 0

I know I'm feeding a troll, but trolls are irony deficient. They need it.
Oh threatening. by BrookHarty · 2003-07-25 22:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

Struan Robertson, solicitor at law firm Mason's and editor of out-law.com, said that Greece did not follow an EC directive that requires countries to give the commission three months' notice before passing a law that concerns "Information Society services."

And not following an EC directive is bad how? They send a threatening letter?!

Just funny, Greece has to inform the EC before it passes laws of Informational nature.
1. Re:Oh threatening. by LeftOfCentre · 2003-07-26 00:31 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  If EU laws are not followed by member states, they can be brought to court and if convicted given very heavy fines.
2. Re:Oh threatening. by mummers · 2003-07-26 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  I am Cornholio! Are you threatening me?
  
  --
  --This isn't a man who is leaving with his head between his legs.
3. Re:Oh threatening. by Hassman · 2003-07-27 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  This was funny about ten years ago. Let's move on.
  
  --
  -Mark
  Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
Re:What's so bad by ciebie · 2003-07-26 03:02 · Score: 1

You forget, that there was democracy in Greece long before it was in your country. And it doesn't matter what country you live in!
Re:What's so bad by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-26 03:37 · Score: 0

You've obviously never lived in Canada, the home of the proud and the one-party state known as "Liberals."
Re:What's so bad by isorox · 2003-07-26 03:55 · Score: 3, Funny

And it doesn't matter what country you live in!

I live in Greece, your point is flawed
Ok, but.... by DesScorp · 2003-07-26 04:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

While the law may be stupidly worded, this is essentially a Greek affair, and none of the EU's business. Greece IS a democracy, after all. Their citizens can vote out the people that pass these laws. I'm uncomrtable with the EU coming in and saying "nope, we say you can't do this". It's not like this is China or North Korea where the people don't have a real voice of thier own.

--
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
1. Re:Ok, but.... by Unordained · 2003-07-26 05:25 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  In the U.S., citizens may say the same thing about state-level laws: the federal government should have no say. While the E.U. isn't quite like the U.S. federal government in respect to member countries, the idea is the same. As a -community- of nations, neighboring states get to have a say in the internal affairs of other nations, a bit like my neighbors can tell me to turn down the music when it bothers them: something like video games sales would actually hurt the industries of other E.U. nations. (as I recall, France for example is very proud of a long line of Myst-type games involving their CG studios.) Again, it's also like the U.N. telling nations (members or not) to do -stuff- at the request of other nations. An invasion is always a long way away, but the idea is to remind countries, states, and any other level of government, that they do not act in a vacuum. Although leaving such groups to go "do your own thing" is almost always an option, compromise is preferred. Everyone knows it, and everyone plays by those rules (except the U.S.) Most likely, E.U. countries won't make unreasonable demands of each other, and such demands would undoubtedly eventually come back to haunt them. You elect representatives to listen to you, yes. But you also elect them to keep the world in mind, and keep the peace between nations (whether political, economic, or military.) It's not out of their jurisdiction to compromise on your behalf, even if they originally acted upon citizen request.
  
  You don't have to like it, and you're welcome to complain: a country is perfectly justified in speaking out against the community around it, standing its ground, and making a few enemies. Do I turn down the music? Not always.
  
  (btw: in any nation, every person has a voice, whether they realize it or not. the leaders, the military, the police, the structure designed to keep the population quiet ... is entirely run by people like us. any link in the chain can be broken, any voice can eventually be heard. to maintain this myth that they have "no real voice" only helps the system as it is stay in place. don't we want to fight that system?)
2. Re:Ok, but.... by BobTheLawyer · 2003-07-27 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  When a country joins the EU it agrees to play by the rules. One of the rules, to which Greece signed up when it ratified the EC Treaty, is "proportionality": the effects of legislation should be proportionate to the aim of the legislation.
  
  In this case the aim was to restrict electronic gambling, and the effect is to ban all electronic games. If this isn't disproportionate then I don't know what is. It's clearly the EU's business if a country breaches EC law.
  
  (It's probably also contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, but the European Court of Human Rights will only be able to consider the legislation if someone is prosecuted under this law and appeals to the ECHR.)
Sorta makes sense, in a weird sort of way by 0x0d0a · 2003-07-26 06:15 · Score: 0

If you're trying to absolutly maximize productivity, video games probably waste a lot of a nation's resources...

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May we never see th
the law is bad but there are social reasons for it by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-26 06:59 · Score: 1, Informative

hello from a country far far away...

i think that you'll understand that since
there is an atlantic ocean between us there
will be some cultural differences, so something
that appears to you totally unreasonable and
crazy may well have a good and valid foundation for me

the law for electronic games was passed because
many people were addicted to slot (vegas style) machine gambling, the law is not directed
towards consumer electronic devices in spirit

but in wording it is and because all our MP's
(MP = like congressmen in you country) are lawyers and MD and know little about technology the result was a monstrous law that allowed police to confiscate
all electronic devices that were publicly available
for rent in shops (e.g. pc of internet-cafes, playstations etc.)

the police is less educated from MP's about technology so they just applied what they read
on paper and did no discrimination between slot machines and innocent ps/2 games

(actually if they went to the full extent of the
law they would raid every house in greece to
get all playstations, they were smart enough not to
do this)

you will ask, even for slot machines, why is
so strict control needed ? because greeks
(hellenes is the corect name btw)) are a bit
passioned people that get carried away and
not always think in logic but many times in
feelings (gambling = lust for money and they
do not consider that actually the odds are against them, so they bet even their houses with
the slot machine owner)

i think you will understand that the government
had to protect less educated people from losing their
homes in gambling

there is also another reason: before that strict law that was issued , there was also another one that only prohibited the slot machines and in general machines that did gambling, well the slot machines owners just covered up the slot machines with innocent games interfaces and covers, with the push of a button they could transform the innocent game into a gambling machine, and they paid bribes to the public servants that supposedly went there to check, they paid them so they did not check the "transform" mechanism

so because of this situtation where the government
could not enforce the limits on gambling (you can gamble here but only in casinos and they supposedly check that you are not poor but that is another
story) and there were thousands of uncontrolled slot machines ripping-off innocent and un-informed people,under directions from the prime minister himself,the strict law was passed (knee-jerk reaction ? maybe)

of course it was so strict that generated an uproar
even among computer users here and web-cafe
owners, so an official "advice" was given to the police not to enforce tha law on web-cafes,
playstations and in general on anything that was just consumer electronics and not gambling device (the issuing of the advice has helped by newspaper
articles with content like "if it is a gambling device the screen might look more like a roulette than a freaking chess board")

one thing you may want to remember from this story
is that free market/choice and ruthless capitalism may well suit the USA because usually rules are kept and fines and penalties go to people that harm the society but european socialism and state protectionism maybe is better for the weak people overhere so they do not lose their homes to slot machines owners and corrupt public servants

(of course now you'll ask and how exactly the state
is going to support the poor people if the employees
are corrupt ? i do not know but i know that in a free
choice market (e.g. of gambling ) the un-educated
people in greece will make always the wrong choice and crooks like casino owners, mass media owners, and mega corp owners will hurry to exploit the bad choice and enslave economically)

with the story you also got an idea of the distortions the distance and stupitidy of
journalists puts betw
Re:What's so bad by BobTheLawyer · 2003-07-27 02:18 · Score: 1

Hello? How exactly is this relevant to a stupid piece of modern Greek legislation?
Re:the law is bad but there are social reasons by Elusive_Cure · 2003-07-27 18:36 · Score: 1

Well pointed by the Anonymous Coward , the legislation was passed just to fight the illegal gambling games cautiously hidden behind pac-man/arcade games, but as most of the MPs are computer illeterate they decided to ban all sorts of entertainment machines in their law. Fortunately, many demonstrations held mostly by Internet Cafe owners and businessmen pointed out that not all computer/entertainment machines are the same, as well as not all businesses act in the same manner. My opinion as a Greek citizen is that such law has to consider all kinds of options to allow free businessmen to have computer/entertainment facilities, but on the other hand as the fish stinks first from the head, authorities have first to be informed on what kinds of machines they have to seize from operating. As an example, i will mention a friend's business that was in all ways legitimate (internet cafe)according to the laws, was completely shut down because some computer illeterate "Sheriff" saw a casino pop-up banner on the desktop and decided to confiscate the computers as they were supposed to be gambling machines!!!.... How stupid is that....

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Roses are red, violets are blue, most poems rhyme, but this one doesn't... ;^)
Re:the law is bad but there are social reasons for by Satan's+Librarian · 2003-07-28 00:00 · Score: 1

you will ask, even for slot machines, why is so strict control needed ? because greeks (hellenes is the corect name btw)) are a bit passioned people that get carried away and not always think in logic but many times in feelings

Dude... and I thought Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc. were from there. What happened?

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I write code.