Bamboo Bike A Reality

markjugg writes "The American Bamboo Society has a page describing a working bamboo bike. This is a strong step towards making bicycling more sustainable, expecially in contrast to aluminum, one of the most resource demanding materials that exist."

Comments

Re:Ummmm.....

[Elwood P Dowd]

Since it's only got one gear, would it be possible to control speed with the chain?

Aluminuminuminuminum

[Citizen of Earth]

expecially in contrast to aluminum, one of the most resource demanding materials that exist.

That's funny. Aluminum is indeed expensive to extract and process and that's why it's also the most recycled mineral(?) in existence.

"Sustainable"?

[justinburt]

Bicycling more "sustainable"? Haven't the environmentalists been trying to get us all to change to bicycles from cars supposedly because of the pollution that cars generate? And now not even bicycles are "sustainable" because they are "resource intensive"?

When does it end? Should I just stop using resources altogether (i.e. die?)

I won't post this anonymously precisely because I mean this quite seriously and not as a troll. Mod me down if you must.

Justin

Re:"Sustainable"?

[gobbo]

Yes, "radical" -- in the same way that Charles Manson was a radical aesthete. But you're in reality referring to a very few fringe freaks, who get great media coverage because the news is a circus.

they probably think that the death of all humanity is ultimately a good thing...the word you're searching for is 'misanthropic' and yes some of the kookoo activists are deeply misanthropic, eg. Paul Watson. Misanthropes are as bad as Social Darwinists.

No being can stop using resources. It's simply a question of ecology. How much do you give back to the life-sustaining biosphere, it's vigor and diversity? Only robo-heads assume that technology must by definition consume increasingly vast amounts of resources. It's our sloppiness, technological youth, and immature economics (eg. GDP benefits from ecological disaster) that keeps us overusing and laying waste. (Sidestepping population debates here.)

Most environmentalists are all about appropriate technology, and want nothing more than society to act upon some of the basic principles of progress, such as "waste is a costly inefficiency" and "knowledge must complexify". That way we'll begin to understand chaotic systems like ecologies and develop cheaper, higher tech stuff that pollutes WAY less or not at all.

I think a bamboo bike in mass production would have to be pretty high-tech to succeed. And, like many environmentalists, I look forward to cleverly designed industry, cities, and social conditions--appropriate (sustainable) technology. It's conservative, applies the precautionary principle, but it's not technophobic, its really an argument about what technology and how to deploy it.

Re:Ummmm.....

[bj8rn]

Grandparent: I think it does have breaks inside the hub of the rear wheel, look more carefully - there is this metal clamp thingie just near the hub on the chain side of the bike.

Parent: yeah, right. Imagine this - you're going at full speed. Downhill. You'd better keep your feet as far away from the pedals as possible - if you don't want to break your legs.

Re:strength of bamboo

[SerpentMage]

Sure it is funny, but the bamboo society is missing a fundenmental point...

I disagree with this non-environmental friendly stuff regarding Aluminum and Steel. These two metals are some of most recycled materials that there are. What do you think happens to old ships, cars, buildings? They are not buried, but smelted again.

In fact this is the beauty of these metals. They can be essentially recycled 100% unlike plastics and papers that always need additives. The reason we do not know about this is because steel and aluminum have been recycled for decades...

Re:strength of bamboo

[Maimun]

I wonder what a material scientist would reply to that (I am not one). Steel is not one thing, you know. Neither are bamboo or aluminium alloys, of course.

• What kind of steel? If the author means ordinary steel in his comparison, for sure high-quality steel would be stronger than bamboo. Mountain bikes, AFAIK, use fairly high quality alloys, be that steel or aluminium.
• Under what longtitudal force---sorry, I don't know the terms in English---pushing the ends towards each other, or pulling the ends apart? (AFAIK, in the first case the shape of the cross-section is crucial.)
• Typically, a material under increasing force goes through ellastic transformation (sorry, missing the term again) when the original shape recovers once the force is removed; then plastic transofrmation that leaves permanent damages; then is breaks. So, what is the 17% advantage of bamboo, is it that the rod stays in the ellastic zone under 17% bigger force? Or is it that the force that breaks it is 17% bigger?
• A bamboo rod has---again, missing the word---"segments" about 30cm long that have "joint" between them. I would think that the joints are the weak point. A steel rod of the type that is found in bikes is has uniform structure, without such joints. Methinks this is an advantage for the metal one.
• Further, the metal rod can be given appropriate shaping. On my bike for instance, the two rods that go between the stem of the seat post and the rear wheel are bent slightly to the inside at the place where the rear brakes are attached. In this way, they (the rods) bend less (to the outside) when the rear brakes are used. This stiffness means more efficient stopping. If the two rods were made of bamboo, they would be straight and thus more prone to bending to the outside once the brakes are pressed.

Re:More Sustainable than Aluminum ??

[VPN3000]

I don't think it's that big of a deal when it comes to bikes. The only bikes made from aluminum are the mid to high end bikes in the $500-$1500 range. The amount of aluminum used in these bikes is less than 6 pounds, typically. Most of the bike's weight is due to the gearing system, tires, strut system, crank and chain. These guys seem to be focusing on the low-end, buy your bike at Kmart crowd.

If you look closely at the design of an aluminum bike, you can tell not many resources are used as they use the least for weight purposes. I know the frame on my Cannondale is a couple of millimeters thick. The rigidness comes from thin walls on a fat tube.

Aluminum bikes aren't going to be around for much longer anyway, the price range for a good aluminum bike gets you right up there with titanium and magnesium alloy frames, which are superior in my opinion. Most of the trim parts consist of carbon fiber (wheels and forks on the better bikes use this).

I am not sure what the point in this article is. There are far greater wastes of resources in new car design as well as the actual bottling process of cans. If the media, or anyone else cared enough to be earth friendly, we'd do it in ways that were actually beneficial. Not by purchasing organic bikes.

A note on steel bikes. They aren't taking into consideration the actual alloys used when doing the comparison. No bikes are made with 100% steel. They use various alloies in the process.

I'm picky on this subject after commuting soley by bike for a few years. I would not trust my riding on busy city streets to an organic material, I'd much prefer the comfort of knowing the materials are consistent due to the manufacture process involved with metals. I highly doubt the bamboo is nearly as consistent if measured across the bike's whole frame.

Re:strength of bamboo

[Anonymous Coward]

...Well, from the picture, they are not using bamboo-to-bamboo interfaces at the high-stress areas (head tube-top/down tubes or bottom bracket shell), but are using metal lugs, much like many of the newer carbon-fiber racing bikes are again, so one does not have to make difficult carbon fiber-based lugs (like Trek's carbon bikes have). The results are not quite as pretty as a Trek, but if it's lighter and works, this usually trumps everything for most bike riders...

So the metal lugs take care of the complicated stresses at these points and only transmit compression/tension stresses to the bamboo tubes, and minimize torsion stresses along a given tube (probably by using "oversize" bamboo tubes also).

Another advantage to this is, if you crack a top tube in a crash, I would think it is relatively cheap to get a new tube put back in, instead of having to throw away the entire bike (i.e., Trek 5000-series) frame.

I know I would probably NOT trust a bamboo handlebar (besides, how would they ever grow a bamboo drop handlebar?), but other than that...

Yes, I realize that this article is about bikes for third-world countries, but if some sort of mandate from UCI came about to use more sustainable materials (if they can do it with bike frame shapes, they could do it with construction techniques and materials as well...) in exchange from deviation from standard "double-diamond" designs, then this affects a rabid, money-spending group of bike consumers...

While I appreciate some of the tech in the bikes that pro bike racers use, I know that for 99% of bike racers, it does not make the difference between winning or losing a bike race, finishing that century, or grabbing a latte across town.
It is a bit like buying a ferarri to buy groceries and run errands.

Those who have the $$$ (or think or want to project that they do) will always spend it. The rest of us who don't have to look for value.

It would be cool to buy a Colnago C-40 "ferarri" bike. But it's definitely not worth $7,000. Besides, the people who win bike races simply have better motors than those who don't. Their equipment doesn't matter much, if at all, compared to their peers. If everyone only had Schwinn Varsity's, the people who win bike races now would still be winning the races...

Re:This Rocks!

[1u3hr]

None of these are the real point at hand. I think the real potential is in third world countries, where many people don't own any sort of bicycle

No, because a bamboo bike would be more expensive and less durable than a steel one.

The ability to have a cheap bicycle, made from sustainable materials is an incredible thing for these people

Except that it's impossible. Can they make a bamboo hub or chain? What about the lugs? Wheels? Gear wheel? Ball bearings?

I'm sure in Laos you can buy cheap Chinese-made bikes. (Flying Pigeon, eg). They ARE ALREADY "sustainable". All they need are new tires every ear or so, and put some oil on the chain when it rains, regrease the bearings once a year or two, repaint every 10 years. You find little roadside shops where guys fix bikes (patch flats, fix most other problems with a hammer and a wrench) for pennies in the third world. (I've biked in Indonesia, Thailand and China.) With minimum maintenance they last for decades. Bamboo bikes are a novelty item for rich Westerners, completely useless to the third world.