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Ending Organ Donor Shortages?

Tracy2112 writes "An interesting and recurring science fiction theme is the idea of black-market traffic in human body parts -- as Larry Niven termed it, "organlegging". According to this USA Today's Op-Ed piece on Yahoo, we're getting closer . . . including LifeSharers.com, , an organization working to sign up "preferred donors" who agree to preferentially donate to other LifeSharer members. Is this a great way to reward people for being generous with their unused body parts -- or a scary flashback to how early 'subscription-only' fire departments worked?"

14 of 405 comments (clear)

  1. Huh? by James+A.+A.+Joyce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Part of the problem is caused by dead people whose families don't allow the deceased's organs to be harvested, even if that person had given full legal consent for doctors to do so when they died. That does not make sense. If families have to follow the last will and testament of dead people, why is this an exception? Wouldn't these familie would be aware of this and wouldn't want to disrespect the wishes of their dead?

    1. Re:Huh? by Scrooge919 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because hospitals are too afraid of being sued by the families if they take the organs anyway. Personally, I think it's disgusting that a family would ignore a person's request like that, and that our legal system is screwed up enough that a lawsuit would probably prevail in such a case...

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Bone marrow, for one thing, is a very safe tissue to give up"

      Who told you this? Bone marrow donation is still a surgical procedure. As with all surgical procedures, there is risk, pain, and time lost.

      Bone marrow extraction is extremely painful. Don't confuse it with testing; that's a blood test. There are several magazine articles you can read about marrow donors. They harvest from your hip, requiring large gauge needles to be buried deep into your flesh as well as the bone itself. They core out for samples and do so several times during the harvest procedure.

      There is deep bruising, sometimes involving nerves, and you're lucky if you can still walk completely on your own a week after the procedure.

      Now, it's no kidney removal, but jeez, it sure as hell is no cakewalk. The iatrogenic risks alone, particular from infection from the hospital, is bad enough. Combined with the pain, time loss (think no pay for 2 weeks), it's not all golden. Karma? Big points though.

      The problem with kidneys is that you have 2 for a reason. Kidneys are amazing in that they are still effective even if like 90% of them are shot to hell. It's one of the problems why end stage renal failure is so prominant--by the time the body/you realizes there is a problem, the kidney is completely shot. At least with kidneys, there are intermediary treatments until a kidney comes available, unlike most other organs.

  2. Need to change the approach by Robert+Hayden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The way to encourage organ donation is to make the the default option on your driver's license instead of something you have to request. In addition, doctors shouldn't have to get permission from the family if the deceased already has an organ donor card.

    1. Re:Need to change the approach by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      No. While I do want to donate, and my wife is also a strong organ donation advocate, I do not want that decision to be made by agreement with the state. Under no circumstances do I want my wishes known until it's too late to save me. Many of my friends are doctors; I trust them as a whole. However, I don't even want the remote possibility of a small voice in the back of the trauma surgeon's mind saying "boy, that kid in Kansas City sure could use this liver" before the result of any lifesaving attempts is pretty certain.

      When the time comes that my death or persistant vegetative state is imminent, then my wife will give them consent - but not before.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:Need to change the approach by bobthemuse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a common attitude, but from several years of working on an ambulance and speaking with ER docs, I believe it to be wrong.

      The only time your organs can be harvested is if you have zero chance of recovery (brain missing, etc..) or in rare circumstances when you have a living will which authorized the termination of life support.

      If anything, carrying a donor card would keep you alive longer (in an odd way), as the EMTs will continue CPR and other life-saving techniques when they ordinarily wouldn't in order to keep your transplantable organs from sustaining further damage.

  3. Organ Transplants Shouldnt Be a "Right" by Zebbers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Im sorry. We waste way too much time energy and money prolonging the lives of halfdead people.

    So if a group wants to make it easier for THEM to prolong their lives, who cares. But noone should complain. The fire analogy is wrong. General safety in a society should be encouraged and given to the society as a whole. Artificial extension of life isn't a needed function and has little intrinsic benefits.

    1. Re:Organ Transplants Shouldnt Be a "Right" by EnlightenedDuck · · Score: 3, Insightful
      My mom is an occupational therapist, mostly retired. The one client she's kept she's been working with for about a decade. Andrea was in an auto accident when she was 16 which left her in a coma, which the doctors thought she'd never recover from. She did, with no memories, and with difficulties forming new ones.

      After a decade of work and therapy, she is now ready to move into her own place. She is pursuing an interest in writing, and has started taking classes at a local community college.

      Compare this with being dead or a vegetable. Pretty impressive.

      And before somebody points out that a great amount of money has been invested in her, and her lifetime productivity will probably never pay it back, she had a settlement from the accident which has been paying for her recovery.

      And then there is the value of her life.

      The moral of this is that by prolonging somebody's life, it might not be just a few sick years. It can be a nearly complete life that you are giving somebody.

      Think about that before you condemn radical medical procedures.

      --
      Quack!Quack!.....QUACK!!
  4. Careful of the unintended consequences by daveo0331 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If there's a market for organs, and criminals sentenced to the death penalty are required to donate them, you now have an industry that profits from having more capital punishment. They might then lobby the government to expand the death penalty for the same reason a defense contractor might lobby for military expansion or a private prison industry might oppose legalizing marijuana. Scary thought.

    That said, death row inmates should be allowed to donate organs if they choose to. I just don't want it to be in some corporation's financial interest to expand the death penalty.

    --
    Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
  5. Try reconsidering. by Penguinoflight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Part of the problem is that you can be officially considered dead, if you are a organ donor, or not dead if you aren't. Despite what the organ donor perponents say, you really aren't as safe if you are a donor. I know someone who died "on the table" and came back, she is not a donor, but if she was, she wouldn't be alive today.

    The hard part about organ donations, is the organs need to be taken out very soon after a death, and sometimes it's too soon.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  6. Re:You have a valid point but... by 73939133 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait until YOU are the one who needs an organ transplant... I hope you never need, but think about it.

    We all need to come to terms with our inevitable death. Medicine is nice when it can give us a few more years of good life, but we shouldn't come to expect it.

  7. Not a registered organ donor? Then no transplant! by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because hospitals are too afraid of being sued by the families if they take the organs anyway. Personally, I think it's disgusting that a family would ignore a person's request like that, and that our legal system is screwed up enough that a lawsuit would probably prevail in such a case...

    How about this:

    If you want to be eligible to receive transplanted organs should you ever need them, you must be a registered organ donor.

    Otherwise, too bad.

    This way, you encourage people to register as organ donors (as I have, for example) *and* you cut down on the leeches. If someone has a religious or other dumbass objection to donating organs, then how is it fair for them to be able to receive them while other people who are willing to contribute to the system die on waiting lists?

    It's just like any peer-to-peer filesharing system: if you want to download, you really have to share for the system to work.

    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  8. Re:China: Black Market for Organs Already Exists by Big_Breaker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My wife is taiwanese and still has relatives on the mainland.

    We visited the mainland in January and I met her cousin who is an organ transplant surgeon. He spoke openly about how in China you can can examine a catalog of potential donors on death row with blood and tissue work already done. If you find a match you can designate ahead of time who will donate the body part that you need. When that persons time is up the surgeons are waiting to harvest.

    The surgeon said he couldn't drink that night because he had surgery the next day. He joked how you wouldn't be able to do that in the US, ie schedule your transplant surgeries in advance. Many executions are done around the new year as a sort of cleansing/celebration/unrest quelling. The surgeon said that was a very busy time for him. I asked him whether they still bill the prisoners family for the bullet - they do. Strange when the body parts are worth much more than the bullet huh?

    Given all that I bet if you are VIP in China and deathly ill that the execution of "your" prisoner might be pushed up?

    One last thing people may not know that mitigates some of this. There are no voluntary donors. Everyone in China wants to be buried whole. It is VERY important to them. I joked that the world should adopt a system where only people who are willing to donate should receive organs because not every country allowed what China did.

    My wife made a funny face and then translated. To the mainlanders at the dinner THAT was a funny idea. Why not use the prisoners that are full of shame and have hurt society?

  9. Re:Not a registered organ donor? Then no transplan by WTFmonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only problem with this is people who can't register as donors, like people with communicable diseases, etc. Otherwise, it's an awesome idea.