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In-Flight Reboot?

steelem writes "The Washington Post is running a story about how the F-22 Raptor's software requires in-flight reboots. Apparently the 2 million line software project is 93% done. Knowing most projects I've been on, it'll stay that way for another few years."

7 of 594 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why reboot systems at all? by sexylicious · · Score: 4, Informative

    They do.

    There are several redundant systems. Let's say for example that your FLCC has 3 identical systems. If one fails, the other two take over until the watchdog timer kicks in and restarts the third (in the case of a software fault).

    Anything that is rated for piloted flight is this way, especially fly-by-wire systems or other mission critical components.

    This claim is not surprising at all, since it happens all the time.

  2. Re:LinuxBIOS in flight computers by Yokaze · · Score: 5, Informative

    > and would be totally unacceptable if it were say, a navigation computer on a 737 with a hundred civilians on-board.

    AFAIK, civilian flight systems are three times redundant. Written by three different isolated teams in three different programming paradigms, from three different cultures to avoid similar faults due to "contamination" by other teams, or simlar faults due to similar paradigms.
    (Airbus 340 (3M LOC), Boeing 777 are said to have employed such techniques)

    And IRC, they don't fly with at least two redundant fully functional systems.

    It makes me wonder why the military has less stringent requirements.

    --
    "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
  3. Re:Why reboot systems at all? by White+Manual · · Score: 4, Informative
    There are several redundant systems. Let's say for example that your FLCC has 3 identical systems. If one fails, the other two take over until the watchdog timer kicks in and restarts the third (in the case of a software fault).
    Not exactly. The watchdog timer is the one that decides some unit has failed and, only then, gives control to a redundant unit (in addition order a reboot of the failed one). For practical purposes, the reboot will be in the background, so the time it actually takes it not that important (as long as the Mean Time Between Failures is reasonable). Much more important is setting of the watchdog timer. If it is set too long, other connected units may be wasting cycles waiting for the failed unit. If it set too short, many unnecessary reboots will be happening... A bad combination of long and short settings will produce exactly the problem that is being reported in the article. This is not really a problem except to the eyes of the uninformed press; it merely shows that the whole system is not fine tuned yet. --
  4. Re:LinuxBIOS in flight computers by Tingler · · Score: 5, Informative

    In order to make the planes more maneuverable, they need to make them less stable. A simply analogy would be a school bus is more stable & less maneuverable than a bicycle. I have read that flying a modern fighter aircraft without computers would be like steering a bicycle backwards while sitting on the hood of a car at 60 miles an hour.

    Very unstable yet very maneuverable.

  5. Re:Why is this a big deal? by mnemonic_ · · Score: 5, Informative

    This isn't flight control software we're talking about. This is sensor fusion software. The flight control system is unaffected.

    The sensor fusion software's task is to combine the data from all of the various sources (radar, RWR, multiple datalinks etc.) and redistribute it among the systems that could benefit from it. For example, a target detected by radar would show also up on the Horizontal Situational Display, and would also be re-transmitted via datalink to JSTARS and/or AWACS and any other datalink-capable aircraft. In addition, contact information can correlated for maximum accuracy. A target's radar emissions could be detected by the Radar Warning Receiver, and that information could then be used by the radar for Non Cooperative Target Recognition allowing the radar to display the type of target (though NCTR in the F/A-22 reportedly works differently from this). All of the numerous sensors on the F/A-22 have their resources and products pooled together, allowing for extremely effective target detection, tracking and ID. Sensor fusion is an incredible development in avionics and is one of the foundations of 5th generation fighter aircraft technology.

  6. Re:Avionic stability? by mnemonic_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    The F/A-22 does not need IFF with datalink and NCTR. Some USAF aircraft are not currently even equipped with IFF (the F-16 for example) and they have done quite well.

    The APG-77 has a terrain following mode. And the widely spread weak emissions from it are much harder to detect than those from a conventional radar.

    The Martin-Baker ACES II ejection seat can save a pilot's life from zero feet of altitude (that's why it's called a "zero-zero" ejection seat- effective down to zero altitude and zero speed)

  7. Re:LinuxBIOS in flight computers by a+low-flying+penguin · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work as a pilot for a regional airline. And I can tell you that "rebooting" (we rather call it resetting) a computer during flight happens, causes no havoc whatsoever, and is well over 2 minutes. The operation is pretty straightforfard: whenever the "flight warning computer", which is watching all the rest, detects a failure in a computer : -Either it is _very_ important, and then you have sufficient redundancy to just leave it so (and you don't want to re-use a computer that failed once on something critical...in case the next failure goes undetected !) -Or you are on the ground with time on your hands, or in flight and it is some secondary stuff: you just pull the circuit breaker for that computer, count 2 minutes, then put it back on. The computer is then usually usable within a minute. For mission-critical system, such as flight control computers, which control the autopilot, everything is tripled. If two agree and one disagrees, the odd one is declared faulty. On such failures, the crew is often not advised while in flight, as there is nothing to be done. The failure is declared by the flight warning computer after landing, for the benefit of maintenance. Obviously, you can't take off again in that situation. And if the failure happens before takeoff, the rules are different: in case of a failure, and if the reset is ineffective, you check the remaining equipement against the minilum equipement list, which tells you if the remaining redundancy is sufficient or not. It can allow you to take off, sometimes with restrictions, or forbid the flight. As a rule, redundacy is such that the fault of a single computer or system (even an engine) is not a problem. Nice to know, isn't it ? ;-)