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Networking Technology At Work In Rural India

abhikhurana writes "Whenever a news item about a plan to offer aid to a poor community in a developing country to set up an Internet backbone or any similar story is posted on Slashdot, there is always a debate among the readers if there is any point in spending so much money on such activities when people in such communities don't have basic amenities like clean drinking water. So when I came acorss this story, I decided to post it to slashdot. It's about new software developed by Indian Institute of Technology, Chennai, which allows video conferencing on low-bandwidth connections, and the impact this technology is having on the small rural communities where it has been deployed."

22 of 179 comments (clear)

  1. shouldn't be using ichat for surgery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Doc? Doc? Hey you there? I've got the kidney in my left hand and the crowbar in my right?"

    Doctor on other side of the world..."Hey, iChat a/v went down again, what the hell does 'beta' mean anyway??"

  2. videoconferencing? by lurgyman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dude, if a community can't afford water, how is it going to afford e-anything?

    1. Re:videoconferencing? by RetroGeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dude, if a community can't afford water, how is it going to afford e-anything?

      That would be e-water.

      Just hook up the device to a well, and you can pump it remotely. Needs its own IP address though, so it better be IPv6 so we don't run out....

      --

      - - - - - - - - - - -
      I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
  3. Stanislaw Lem... by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...wrote in one of his books about a banana republic where a program was introduced to help every family in the country to purchase and learn to use a helicopter, because it would come out way cheaper than building the network of roads through the jungle between scattered settlements.

    So true... Often modern technology is simply cheaper than the "simple" stuff. Think cellular phones in areas without standard phone networks...

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:Stanislaw Lem... by El+Cubano · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So true... Often modern technology is simply cheaper than the "simple" stuff. Think cellular phones in areas without standard phone networks...

      Sometimes it has to do with cost. A friend of mine was in a rural part of Ecuador years ago when a US (I believe) phone company was contracted to lay a phone network. He told me that one day the workers would be there laying the cables, and they next day the cables were dug up and gone. Aparently the impoverished residents thought they could get some money for the copper in the wires, so they would "harvest" the cables. This supposedly prompted a more widespread deployment of cellular service.

  4. Better than food is... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Education

    Really, how many teachers are motivated to help the unfortunate, but not so motivated as to live in a poor village?

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  5. Video conferencing? by groove10 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I understand that utilizing the existing infrastructure is key in these sorts of projects, but I really have one question

    Why do the people of rural India need videoconferencing?

    It woul be much more suitable for scientific outposts in remote places in the world where the people can utilize the conferencing technology along with other data compression schemes to increase their "connectivity".

    --
    MMORPG fan-boy? Prove your worth
    1. Re:Video conferencing? by g0qi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps you missed the part in the article where they mention how village farmers 'consult' with agricultural specialists in the city to get farming advise. Just because you don't use it does not mean nobody else in the world would not need it. Wake up.

      --
      Yea. I know.
  6. Oops I See + Wifi by niko9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe you can partner this up with cheap WiFi and some solar powered WiFi repeaters.

    You could also have one attending physician in charge of many physician assitants in many small towns, instead of just using it for teaching.

  7. BR and Infra by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Can we drop phrases like "Banana Republic"? It's pretty patronizing.

    I suspect Lem was being satrical. But it's not news that countries with no infrastructure often leapfrog more developed nations. I'm told that Indonesia never built an earth-based telephone infrastructure, because by the time they could afford to do it, it was cheaper to get their own comsats. And we've all seen the way the Third World has embraced cell phones and text messaging.

  8. Census of India 2001 is an eye opener by civilengineer · · Score: 4, Informative

    The census of India 2001 ( a site Site Optimised for Netscape! )came out recently and is covered in India Today ( this article is not free however. Check your local library for a copy of the magazine. Its very interesting)
    The 2001 Census data has information on Houses, Household Amenities and Assets in India and has very interesting findings. It seems there are some 2.4 million places of worship in the country, as against 1.5 million schools and colleges and a mere 600,000 hospitals and dispensaries. No wonder there is so much unnecessary religious strife.

    The point is, there is a lot of opportunity for growth and innovative technology is greatly needed there to increase the level of education and quality of life there. The question of which technology is most needed first is very difficult to answer.

    --

    New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
    1. Re:Census of India 2001 is an eye opener by 3x37 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fewer medical facilities and schools than churches? So what?

      I would guess that this is true for any area of the United States or any other democratic country that tolerates multiple religions.

      A quick perusal of the Yellow Pages for Madison, Wisconsin, USA shows roughly half as many listings for schools as churches. And the combined number of hospitals, pharmacies, clinics and chiropractors is less than the number of schools.

      So hardly an indicator of unnecessary religious strife. India's a giant complex democracy that is still very young. Hell it took the US almost 200 years to figure out it should let all its people vote. Tolerance does not grow easily. You must work at it hard. The fact that India even holds it together is impressive.

    2. Re:Census of India 2001 is an eye opener by The+Cydonian · · Score: 4, Informative
      The 2001 Census data has information on Houses, Household Amenities and Assets in India and has very interesting findings. It seems there are some 2.4 million places of worship in the country, as against 1.5 million schools and colleges and a mere 600,000 hospitals and dispensaries. No wonder there is so much unnecessary religious strife.
      My ancestral village has 121 (Hindu) temples, 3 (Muslim) mosques, one (Christian) church, and five ancient Buddhist sites, in addition to about 10 or so secondary schools, two junior colleges, and, I believe, a recently set-up engineering college. There's a government health center somewhere, in addition to a couple (may be 5 or 6) privately-run hospitals and dispensaries. And yeah, there's one police station with three constables and one Sub-Inspector.

      No, we never had riots as far as anyone can remember.

      Before you read the 2001 Census Report, or that shiny worthless rag, India Today, may I point out to a more useful site on logical fallacies? In particular, you'll note the similarity between your implied reasoning ("India has more religious structures than schools or hospitals. It also has a lot of religious strife. Therefore, the large number of religious structures causes strife.") and a logical fallacy called coincidental correlation.

      By way of proof, I recommend Ashish Nandy's excellent tome, Exiled At Home, to really understand communal strife in India. Here's a short thesis:- 'Communal' riots are among the most secular phenomena in modern India. They have more to do with oppurtunistic politicians (of all religions, obviously), and a police force badly in need of reform, rather than heightened religiosity, or even, that Great Indian Distraction, Ayodhya.

  9. Time for a big economics reality check by TheNarrator · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Most people think that before you can produce anything economically you need clean drinking water, affordable housing, and modern hospitals. I mean most people who pontificate about all this say, "We have all that infrastructure and I can barely get a job making lattes at starbucks for just above minimum wage! How are they going to do anything productive without all of we have?". So what do I say to them:


    WRONG.


    Before you get all of the above which are very very expensive, as in 100s of millions of dollars. You have to find some sort of way to be productive like sewing textiles or above subsitance farming or factory production, etc. Any successful development story starts with the fact that the country or region in question made something first that people wanted and then it developed. If you build all this infrastructure wherever, as soon as the money stops flowing in, and it would have to flow in permanently and forever, it would all fall apart. This has happened over and over again in Sub-Saharan African and else where.

    1. Re:Time for a big economics reality check by daveo0331 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know of a place that proves your point. It's called "California."

      Most people think that before you can produce anything economically you need clean drinking water,
      Everyone buys bottled water anyway, so would it matter if the "drinking water" coming from the tap wasn't clean?

      affordable housing,
      Two words: Silicon Valley.

      and modern hospitals.
      Every so often the nurses strike over working conditions, not enough time with patients, etc.

      Bottom line: You can produce lots of stuff economically without clean tap water, affordable housing, or modern hospitals.

      --
      Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
    2. Re:Time for a big economics reality check by jdhutchins · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You hit it right on. These people have been 'needing' better water, health care, etc for years. It's not like they don't have any water or health care, but it's certaintly not up to par with the developed world.

      Education is the one thing that will help these villages succeed. If they know how to do more, and farm better, then the assumption is that they will make more money. If the people in the village have more money, then they will be able to modernize their village. Modern water and healthcare arent' cheap, and they don't appear on their own. The kiosks won't directly help this (you can't teleport the stuff over the kiosk), but it will help by education the people of the village so that they can make more money.

  10. Cynicism is so convenient by fm6 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Your attitude towards technology is simplistic. Do you think people can have clean water without technology? That stuff that comes out of your kitchen tap doesn't appear by magic.

    The problem with introducing technology into the underdeveloped countries is not the technology itself, but the way it's applied. Typically, it comes from some industrial-world aid agency that simply doesn't understand local conditions. They'll invent complicated systems that attempt to duplicate features of Western infrastructre, without considering prerequisites that a less developed country doesn't have.

    Some years back, there was a big push to build factories in Africa to process Sunflower seeds into oil. This would have connected a resource (lots of African farmers grow sunflowers) with an unmet need (lots of Africans needs to consume more vegetable fat). All the money was essentially wasted: the factories couldn't sustain themselves without huge subsidies. It cost too much to transport the seeds to the factories and the oil to the consumers, especially in areas with bad roads, corrupt local officials, etc.

    A better solution came from an inventor in Vermont: a cheap sunflower seed press. Sell them to farmers so they can process the seeds themselves, and sell the oil to their neighbors. The whole process is economically self-sustaining: farmers pay for the presses with profits from their oil, and profits from the presses pay for more presses. The only problem they had starting up was getting a grant to develop the press. It seems that nobody was prepared to fund a development effort that only ran to $30,000...

    The bottom line is that technology can solve third-world problems. It just has to be the right technology.

  11. Let's close New York Airports and Phone Companies by Rares+Marian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People are homeless.

    Gah! If it wasn't for technology like the Internet or TV you wouldn't know they were hungry (probably could by mail, but Americans are too lazy to become involved in mailed communication).

    If it were for airplanes, you couldn't drop food shipments.

    Priorities are fine. Food versus technology isa not prioritizing. It's basic neanderthal wanking pretending they're better because they're supposedly more concerned.

    Luddite morons.

    --
    The message on the other side of this sig is false.
  12. You must see beyond videoconferencing by ktorn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not about the application, it's about the infrastructure.

    It's a poor country. What better way to improve the economy than to provide them with technology that allows them to be productive and earn a living even from such remote places?

    A bit of training and you have potentially thousands of Google Answers researchers, or chat-room moderators, or whatever jobs suitable for large amounts of low-qualified, low-wage work force who can work remotely online.

    It's the logical step following the call-centres movement.

  13. RTFA? by sbwoodside · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why do the people of Slashdot ask dumb questions without reading the article?

    Since you're probably long gone I'll summarize for you:

    0. In rural India, it's often really hard to get to places due to very poor roads, that get washed out in the rain, and the population is very broadly distributed on farms.

    1. A teacher in the city can educate children in a rural area. (viz., telecommuting)

    2. Doctors can run virtual clinics for villagers to give them medical advice.

    3. Scientists can have meetings with local farmers to give them crop advice.

    All of these things are IN DEMAND by the people who had a chance to try them out.

    simon

  14. Dot com disease. by ratfynk · · Score: 5, Insightful
    For some reason or other I think the Indians would look at some of these posts and shake their heads. Appropriate cost effective tech is all important to Indians, haggling the cost of things is a way of life in India and most are quite proud of the fact. To do something cheaper and more efficiently is an Indian strong point. Just look where some of the most brilliant math scientists and technicians are coming from today.

    No India will find a way of employing tech that will be radically different than the West. You can bet that they will learn from our mistakes caused by dot com stupidity and greed. No dot com debacle for them. The gold rush is over, we are about to lose out because we do not know how to be realistic in our commerce. We do not see the importance of the changes in the world economy.
    The concept of a GNP is not a concept of economic growth, and to say that growth in GNP is a measure of developement is a falacious assumption, especially in countries like India of China.

    To assume that this tech is expensive is rediculous, the cost of sending messangers, sending teachers to remote areas, Doctors, technicians,
    administraters, health nurses, more than offsets the cost of the tech and equipment. Our problem in the west is that everything computer has to have bells, whistles, video candy, and super fast expensive communication tech. Funny but simple video communication that we have been able to do since the early 1990s will catch on and be a great boom for India. We ignored it because we didn't care to use it for anything other than goofy web garbage cam and it did not entertain us sufficiantly. We are becoming a shallow silly
    over endulged bunch of brain dead consumers and it shows. Most of the rest of the world doesn't envy us, they fear, and some pity our greed.

    --
    OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
  15. Re:High Technology and Backward Cultures Don't Mix by Adam_Trask · · Score: 3, Insightful
    > possibly benefit a backward, barbaric village?
    > more important things like improving their culture?
    > First, introduce modern culture and modern notions of morality;

    Aren't we the self-declared pundits on barbarism and modernism. If you mean not having an MTV culture, not wiping out the indegenous people but co-existing with them, not having hate groups like KKK (don't winch) mean India has a barbaric culture, then you must be right. Unlike some countries, civilization in India has been around for more than 5000 years, so it has to be barbaric, right?

    But first, please get some basic facts about India straight:
    1. Despite being exploited and oppressed by the British for more than 200 years, India is not going astray. She has one of the strongest democracies in the world. For example, when the Prime Minister of India declared that he wanted to help US out with troops in Iraq, major public disapproval forced the govt. to act otherwise. In 50 years after independence, India has managed to put up more than a handful of industries. Excess food is exported, and donated to UN. There is a burgeoning middle class, which is now threatening to take jobs away from countries like US. All this in FIFTY years, starting from the uneducated, impoverished, totally undeveloped state that the British managed to keep India in.
    2. India does not have one culture. There are more cultures co-existing in India than you can find in Europe.
    3. Unlike some cultures which like to fry criminals, Indian society is very tolerant. Which is probably why people committing anti-female atrocities still walk around.

    There are plenty of areas where the country is performing fairly pitifully, i agree. Like female infanticide, as you mentioned. Let me assure you it is not as widespread as you think it is. But that is not the point. The point is why infanticide is present in the first place ? Because parents think girls will be a burden to them: they cannot earn a living doing physical labor. Which is why technology is so important. You have to show the older generation that it is possible to make a living without becomming a construction laborer or working on a farm. You have to show them that in the modern world, females have as much chance of sustaining themselves as the males.

    I am saying this most respectfully-- most westerners, including those writers sitting in air-conditioned rooms at WSJ, do not know $hit about the third world. If you want a better understanding of the workings of a very complex society like India's, please drop by sometime. We will even have plenty of bottled water for you, don't worry. Till then, adios with a parting message:
    We do not eat frog brains, we do not make soup with monkey eyes floating in it, and we do not jump around from tree to tree.