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There Is No Single Instant In Time

tekkieRich writes "Some interesting news from the world of physics. Supposedly, in this paper, the author answers some of the major paradoxes (achilles vs. the turtle and Zeno) concerning our understanding of time. 'Impressed with the work is Princeton physics great, and collaborator of both Albert Einstein and Richard Feynman, John Wheeler, who said he admired Lynds' "boldness," while noting that it had often been individuals Lynds' age that "had pushed the frontiers of physics forward in the past."'"

5 of 672 comments (clear)

  1. Is this a hoax? by BobTheLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article is either incredibly bad journalism and way over-simplifying the paper, or else it stinks of a hoax.

    "Lynds also points out that in all cases a time value represents an interval on time, rather than an instant. "For example, if two separate events are measured to take place at either 1 hour or 10.00 seconds, these two values indicate the events occurred during the time intervals of 1 and 1.99999...hours and 10.00 and 10.0099999...seconds respectively." "

    This is stunningly obvious. I learnt the resolution of this, and the tortoise paradox, at age 17 in high school maths classes.

    Also, why is the contact for further information an "Independent Communications Consultant"?

  2. Re:God help the Mods by tedrlord · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, as you say this goes over many peoples' heads, therefore what is considered "informative" can't be immediately determined as true or false. If the scientific community has such different views of the matter, how do you think that Slashdot will be able to come to a stable conclusion? People are modding up whatever sounds good, which is the right thing to do, as it brings the more sound arguments for and against a controversial theory to the forefront, which is the best we can do in this situation.

    As for the value of the paper itself, most of your arguments in its favour are inconsequential to its veracity. Many papers are published in scientific journals that prove not to be true. The whole reason these journals publish papers is that they can be peer-reviewed, a very similar process to what is occurring here on Slashdot.

    Also, his support is by no means overwhelming. He may have some prominent supporters, but he also has prominent detractors. It even mentions that this goes directly against one of Hawking's theories, and without any other evidence I'd be more inclined to trust Hawking to someone I haven't previously heard of.

    The comments on the difficulties he had getting this printed, his lack of credentials, and the reaction of the academia say nothing about the value of his work. He does seem to be an underdog, but an appeal to our emotional response to such a situation is not a point for his side. There are many, many people who can't get published, have no credentials, and are disregarded by educated physicists. This is often because they don't know what they're talking about.

    And comparing him to Einstein is not helpful either. Einstein was a particularly special case, and his work rose to the top due to its own merit. If Lynds' work is truly of the same calibre, it will do so as well. The suggestion that physicists pay attention to every amateur with a theory because he may be the next Einstein doesn't make sense. The reason they generally don't pay attention to amateurs is precisely because they are amateurs. Your average physicist is busy enough working on his own theories and examining other professional physicists' theories. Why should he devote even more time working on the theories of someone outside the field? Physics hobbyists are generally far less knowledgeable in the area, and are far more prone to erroneous conclusions compared to one that is educated in the field.

    Basically, this paper may have merit and it may not. It might be a great breakthrough or completely worthless. Apparently both opinions exist in varying quantities. It's a theory coming to unusual (or in some cases obvious) conclusions coming from someone that is not actually a physicist with no mathematical proofs. That really lowers the chances of its being accepted because it lowers its chances of being true. There isn't some big physics conspiracy going on here. That's just how science works.

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  3. You're missing the point by arevos · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think you're missing the point. Let's take a more practical example; assume there's a set of mirrors facing each other, with the mirrors getting ever closer in a geometric sequence:
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    If a lightbeam is fired in it'll zigzag between mirrors, with the zigzag getting smaller and smaller. Now, obviously if, say, the distance between each set of mirrors halves each time, then we have the sum of a geometric sequence. If the lightbeam travels 1m between mirrors, then 0.5m, then 0.25m and so forth, then the light beam will travel 2m in total. So the lightbeam will eventually emerge from these infinite mirrors. So what direction will the lightbeam be heading in? Up, or down? It depends on the last mirror- but there is no last mirror! Thus we have a paradox.

    Of course, today we know that matter is not infinitely divisable, but that was Zeno's point! You cannot have a continuous function in real life and divide it into discrete segments! In fact, 'poor Zeno' was well ahead of his time, not only arguing against infinitely divisible, but also touching on Relativity! His 'stadium' paradox of two bodies of objects passing each other essencially begs the solution of Special Relatively.

    In the archilles paradox, the runner will always have further to go. If time and space can be divided into discrete slices, then the runner will have to transverse an infinite number of slices to get to his destination, which is impossible. Infinity isn't a number, it's a position which is unreachable through finite additions. Therefore, the runner cannot overtake the tortoise, because he has to go through and infinite amount of 'time-slices' to get there. The solution in the article is that time is continuous; there cannot be a discrete slice of time, only a duration of time between two points.
    1. Re:You're missing the point by arevos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At this point, the distance between the mirrors is zero, which means the light must be standing still. If light cannot stand still, this must mean the distance between the mirrors is not zero, and hence does the example not apply (because it makes the assumption that mirrors can have zero distance).

      Infinity isn't a number, and something infintesimately small is not zero. However far you go with the mirrors, the light is still bouncing. Assuming a light beam has no width to speak of, there is no point at which the light beam is not bouncing. And yet the distance the light beam travels is finite, even if the mirrors are infinite! Therefore the light will emerge in a finite space of time, and at every point will be bouncing and zigzagging along. You're right that it's impossible, of course, but that's why it's a paradox!

      What do you mean "there cannot"? If time is discrete, Zenon's paradox does not apply, because it talks about timeslices smaller than what the actual ones would be.

      Sorry; I meant you cannot have a discrete slice of time if time is continuous. However, I've said elsewhere that the paper in the article seemed, well, dubious. I'm not saying I agree with the paper, or that the paper is of any import as the article seems to suggest. Just that the original poster misunderstood what the paper was proposing.

      Zeno's paradox does not claim Achilles can never catch up with the tortoise; making such a claim would require talking about infinite time -- Zeno's paradox does only talk about the time before Achilles catches up with the tortoise, hence the correct conclusion is "Achilles cannot possibly catch up with the turtle in the timeframe before he catches up with the turtle".

      Well, the quote for Zeno's Achilles paradox I have is: "The slower will never be overtaken by the quicker, for that which is pursuing must first reach the point from which that which is fleeing started, so that the slower must always be some distance ahead."

  4. Re:Questionable by ortholattice · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It wouldn't surprise me if this does get published in Foundations of Physics Letters - we'll wait and see - but here is why.

    The Foundations of Physics (and the Letters companion) is a journal that seems to be a catch-all for articles on the fringe of physics. (By "fringe" I don't necessarily mean "new-age" garbage - that would be rejected outright - but I mean stuff that sometimes really pushes the envelope.) While the articles are peer-reviewed, the articles are sometimes speculative and many of them would have been (and were) rejected elsewhere. For example, there was a paper in the 1980s IIRC reporting on evidence for psi phenomena (and a theory connecting it to quantum mechanics) whose results have never been duplicated. The articles tend to be on the hairy borderline of real and pseudo-scientific, and whatever you read there (although often quite interesting, and for the most part scientifically correct, but not always) you have to take with a grain of salt and use informed judgment to evaluate the papers.

    I found it puzzling that MIT's Science Library, which has about every physics journal imaginable, ended its subscription to FoP and Letters in the early 90s, although I never pursued why - perhaps some faculty member complained that its quality wasn't up to snuff. So while I use to enjoy reading it, it's way too expensive for me to subscribe to - perhaps another local U. carries it, don't know.

    I myself have published a paper in FoP on an obscure topic (in my case not wrong or controversial, just too obscure for the mainstream physics journals to find a referee who thought it interesting or significant), that had been rejected elsewhere.