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Pew Study: File Traders Don't Care About Copyright

An anonymous reader writes "A recent poll by the Pew Internet and American Life Project focused on that portion of the file trading community that is over 18. The major finding is that two-thirds of all file traders in this age bracket are not concerned about violating copyright laws. This remained consistant even when they split up the respondents by sex, income, and race."

21 of 494 comments (clear)

  1. No kidding, really? by base3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You mean the death of meaning of the Constitution's language "limited times," effective eternal copyright on software and media, along with excessive laws that provide jail time for what would be a minor property crime in the physical world have eroded respect for copyright law?

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
    1. Re:No kidding, really? by VPN3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hey, I am one of those people. I've got about 40 gigs of movies and documentaries shared on K-lite. All of them are public domain and downloadable from the Moving Pictures Database on Archive.org. During the past three months, none of them have been downloaded even once.

      In other news, I had an mp3, named after a particular Metallica song, of my voice saying to not buy, purchase or download anything Metallica related. I'd rather just see those meatheads not sell another album or concert ticket. Now, that's been downloaded hundreds of times.

      It's no real mystery what people do with P2P applications. :)

    2. Re:No kidding, really? by Surt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't need to be an expert on copyright law to feel the effects the abuse of the copyright system has had on our society.

      People may not understand precisely how, yet often they can be quite aware that they are being hosed.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  2. Re:old news by Mod+Me+God · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yeah, there is a link here too (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/31 15829.stm).

    The RIAA have dismissed this, as the time the survey was taken was before their recent legal action. Note that doesn't mean the action will work, just this survey is irrelevant for the here-and-now.

    --
    --

    FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
  3. In further news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    A recent /. study shows that anonymous cowards don't care about karma.

  4. I knew it! by Jack+Va1enti · · Score: 5, Funny
    The cretins are stealing our property in broad daylight. The Boston Strangler of home taping has returned. An erroneous court made the Betamax decision, and respect for copyright has hit an all new low.

    This is why I have proposed to our representative in Congress, Mr. Berman and Mr. Hollings, that copyright violations be made punishable by death.

    A new force will be recruited from among our friends at BayTSP, MediaDefender, and our more clandestine operatives to man squads carrying automatic weapons. These will be authorized by Congress to carry out summary executions against those sharing our property via P2P networks.

    Perhaps this will engender the respect our copyrights deserve.

  5. This shows the RIAA is done economically by Phoenix666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But will it mean they're done politically? They've bought an awful lot of politicians in Washington, no matter what our honored lobbiest guest said here a couple days ago. (If Bill Clinton and other top pols show up to a going-away party for Hilary "Wicked Witch of the East" Rosen, I would say they have bought influence.)

    My question is, the media like to talk about how the average person doesn't know what file sharing is and what the issues at stake are, but if there are 60 million people doing it then how can that possibly be true? If one fifth of the population of your country does anything on a regular basis, then how can you seriously claim that they don't understand what that activity is? It seems like so many other ridiculous claims ginned up by journalists like that disgraced NYTimes reporter, and repeated unthinkingly by the rest of the news crowd.

    OK, so if that's bunk, and those 60 million people do understand what is at stake with file-sharing, then why aren't they making themselves heard in the government? Why isn't that anger translating politically? My theory is there is no membership organization they can focus their voice through. If we had something like the AARP or NRA for online freedoms, my bet is you'd start seeing politicians learning to dance to our tune in an awful hurry. (and no, the EFF is not that organization. they do great work, but a membership organization they are not).

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  6. the law is only the result ... by millenium · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... of the political process, which may be subverted temporarily by injecting enough money, but in the end the political process will always revert to majority rule.

    Therefore, the public *owns* the political process.

    When the RIAA says they want to educate the public about the law, the public may eventually lash back by educating the RIAA about what it means to be at the receiving end of the public's wrath.

  7. I'm sorry but it will never be a crime... by BlackSabbath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...for most people.

    In most people's minds, this is a crime in exactly the same sense as going 5 clicks over the speed limit. People just don't even think about it.

    And when they do they just don't think its important. This is the reason that the more the RIAA ramp up the legislation and bully-boy tactics, the more they will get up the nose of Joe Average.

    Everyone agrees that, in the abstract, speeding can kill people, just as in the abstract, people agree that musicians need to get rewarded. However, no-one thinks THEIR teensy, weensy breach will really hurt anyone.

  8. Re:Sweet by chrisbw · · Score: 5, Informative
    Seriously though, we live in a democracy

    Err, actually, we live in a republic:

    1 a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit (the French Fourth Republic)
    2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity (the republic of letters)
    3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the U.S.S.R., or Yugoslavia

    (I hope I didn't violate Merriam-Webster's copyright there...)

    --
    Chris -- http://www.bitter.net/
  9. In other news . . . by Pituritus+Ani · · Score: 5, Funny
    --

    Another proud carrier of the $rtbl flag

  10. Playing the Game by N8F8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the majority of Americans understand this as all some stupid game and one side has already bribed the referees.

    Ex1: Disney's obvious bribing of Congress to get the Copyright length extended.

    Ex2: AOL, Microsoft etc bribing state politicians to pass DCMA even though it is as anti-consumer a law as you can get.

    and so on....

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:Playing the Game by Trinition · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the majority of Americans

      I have to disagree. I think the majority of Americans think a copyright is a little "c" inside a circle. They know nothing of the Sonny Bony Copyright Extension Act. They know nothing of the DMCA.

      Now, they will believe that politicians can be untruthful. They will believe the rich are powerful They will believe, especially after the big exposure of scandals like Enron, that big busniess will be corrupt. And certainly they will tie all fo this together.

      But most people DO NOT have a solid understanding of copyright and how it will affect their life. And the truth is, if it doesn't raise their taxes and put them in danger, they won't care.

      The media has done a poor job of explaining to the public the problems with our current copyright laws. The price fixing the RIAA members were using in record stores passed under the radar of the common American. The ever extending copyright terms do too. The fact that the blank CDs American's buy to burn their music and files to cost more because the RIAA gets a piece of that pie (although, more and more, people ARE using them to record pirated music, so that fee is less uncalled for).

      If the media could start to explain these things with their clever abilities to squash everything into catchy soundbites, then Americans would understand that those little "c"s inside circles are another way somebody is trying to screw them out of what's fair, then your statement owuld begin to hold true.

  11. Too simplistic, I want to know WHY don't they care by OneInEveryCrowd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It would have been a better study if they had delved more into the reasons why most people don't care.

    For example, do people not care because they don't even think about it, because they think they won't get caught, or because they think a monopoly is abusing both copyright law and the campaign finance system? Some of the above ? None of the above ?

    My only reaction to the study in its current form is like "well duh-uh !!!".

  12. Are the law outdated ? by Vapula · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the beginning, books could only be reproduced by carefully copying it line after line, like monk did. It took very much time to make a single copy. Every copy had a great value... But anyone with enough time and knowledge (not everyone was able to write) could do it... without being prosecuted.

    Then came Gutemberg. He found a way to make numbers of copies of a single work much faster. The initial work was still a long process.

    Now, anyone can have a copier at home and copying of paperwork became available to anyone. But "production" costsof a copy and the finish of that copy are still quite expensive in comparison to "commercial" process. And duplicating a book damage the original and is still slow.

    There are some "pirate" distribution of books, but having a book scanned in PDF or in TXT is not similar to hving the real thing.

    For the music, the way was a little bit different...

    At the beginning, there was NO way of recording music. Bands were paid to play. Then came the firsts recording, which were process unavailable to people (a little like Gutemberg press) and there was a protection which was mostly between companies (not companies vs individuals). This is like what we have for books.

    Then, new media appeared, beginning by big tapes on a wheel, then the tapes we still use today, then the CD and now, computer formats like MP3.

    The biggest difference is that, where it's still more expensive, destructive and less appealing to copy a book by an individual, copying a song is (very) cheap, don't damage the original recording and with color printers and scanners, you can have a CD-box with a copy of the original artwork or some custom artwork. Only the on-cd picture can't be done.

    So, even if the law protecting both a book and a music record is the same, we have 2 distinct situations.

    Add to that the fact that many musician complain about recording companies, that even if the manufacturing costs have dropped, the cost of music has increased (the cost of books has DROPPED).

    One more is the fact that record companies are introducing more and more "one-shot" artists (making new stars from nothing, using mass advertisement and such). When you like some artist which make new musics of equal (or similar) quality over the time, you are more willing to buy its CD than when it's some "jack out of the box" artist you don't know and which won't last past the summer. You can be willing to support some artist you like, but when it's a one-shot artist, you are NOT given that opportunity.

    And you can add to that the fact that many songs are unavailable at stores because the recording companies found that these were too old or that there is no interrest in these. While you can rent a book at the local library and won't probably read it again and again, this is not true when we are speaking of music because when you like a song/tune, you'll listen to it again and again nad will need to keep it. and if you can't find it at your local music-store, you're left with only ONE solution : copying it.

    We have a similar problem with films. many films are NOT worth the price you've to pay for them. and, when you've paid to see it in a theater, you could find it incorrect to have to pay for it again to see it at home... not speaking about the many films which NEVER find their way out of their original country because of lack of interrest.

    For films, we see more and more films with nearly no story but loads of known actors and of special effects. This lead to lots of "junk" with little interrest, which cost more and more to produce and is less and less worth it's price... and while the actual manufacturing of the film support (VHS or DVD) is less and less expensive, prices have actually gone UP.

    Both for music and films, the people feel that it has a "real" value which is constantly decreasing and a price which is increasing... Add to that the wories like protected-CD (well... these are not really CD as they don't conform to the standard)

  13. Society's laws grow from its mores by Featureless · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And while there has been a remarkable "revolution" in the arts which has created some "in the gut" recognition for something called "intellectual property," the human animal simply has a terrible time recognizing that music, or performance, or writing, or any idea made slightly tangible, is not just something you share.

    They're like the air on a hot summer day. We swim in an ocean of ideas - our own indistinguishable from those around us. We inhale and osmose and exclaim and excrete all as natural instinctive intellectual processes. We are not built to recognize such artificial distinctions as "the owner of a song" (or a sentence, or an idea) because they are simply unnatural. This ownership must be violated at every instant - as you sing in the shower, as you share a rumor, as a teacher teaches or a librarian lends you our richest treasures. Calling it "intellectual property" is itself propaganda - it is the most shocking of bad metaphors in recent times.

    Copyright is the barest of fictions, intended to allow artists to live, not Michael Eisner to summer in Tenerife. It does make for some interesting, even good, results, in the way they were originally practiced (as intended by the folks who founded our nation, for instance) - where for a few (like seven!) years there were some artifical means for an artist to thrive from her work, that didn't involve the help of wealthy patrons (which was how the old world used to do it).

    But I think if you asked Washington he would be very surprised at the idea of copyright taken precedence over sharing - though of course he and his colleagues would have shaken their heads at the complexity of "mass-scale distributed sharing."

    They would certainly rage at and mock the outrageous "extend every time mickey mouse is in danger" new time limits (one of the more transpareant examples of the subversion of democracy by a wealthy cartel). And if informed of the new punishments for violators, or pre-punishment of potential violators, or direct trust "taxes" on things which might be used to violate... they would pick up their arms and fight.

    You think it's melodramatic to say so, but America is a nation of ideas, of rational supremacy, and the economic achievement that can only come from intellectual liberty. The new rules that Disney and Microsoft have mutated intellectual property with over the last decade choke off that liberty in the most violent way, by destroying the commons of ideas, erasing the essential quality of trust in our democracy, and violating the supremacy of free speech and free expression that made our country wealthy, successful in affairs of state, and also a fun place to live.

    And all this, not for some grave end - to fight terrorism or feed the hungry - but only so a publisher can increase their profit margins.

    Not even the politicians would countenance it, ordinarily. It's bad for almost everyone but a select few, and it is even bad for them - content creators need the commons more than anyone. But politicians have a unique respect for those who control the media...

    Remember what copyright was originally intended to do. Consider the new tools we have - there are better ways now than what we did in the past, and anything is better than what the cartel wants.

  14. The interesting thing about this survey.... by DisKurzion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is that it exemplifies 'legality' and 'deviance'.

    For a quick lesson in socialogy, legality is whether the law has determined something to be wrong. Deviance is whether or not it is against societal norms.

    Speeding is and example of something that is NOT deviant, but is illegal. EVERYONE speeds, if only a little bit, despite that the law says you arn't supposed to. When a situation like this arises, usually the law is repealed, the punishment is slack, or there is leeway when enforcing the law. That is why cops tend to be lenient with speeding tickets. Cops will let you get away with 5-10 MPH over, while someone who is doing 35+ over will almost certainly come down hard. Prohibition in the 20's is another example, except in this case, the laws were repealed. (there are probably more recent examples, but IANAL, or a socialogist, so I havn't done much research)

    This survey shows that amoung (american) internet users, file-sharing(downloading) isn't deviant, despite it's illegality. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say in most of the world, file-sharing isn't illegal, and it certainly isn't deviant. Even if laws are passes to severly punish the users, the judiciary system will almost certainly strike them down if the behavior is relativly harmless (nobody is getting killed), and it isn't deviant.

  15. Sign the tide is turning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is amazing to see how the people are always right, ahead of the politicians.

    Since "intellectual property" is not a natural law, but was introduced only to increase productivity, one cannot help feeling that IP law, in its current form, may have outlived its usefulness.

    What does the society gain by protecting the IP of music publishers? Do we risk underproduction (or extinction?) of music if the IP "rights" of Sony Entertainment are not protected at all? Or would that rather restore some sanity and the value of culture? IP is becoming a tool with which major corporations tax average joe and small business startups, not unlike emperors used to tax salt.

    In the software field, for all I see, dispensing of IP would stop corporate lawyers from trying to destroy honest developers working in companies without huge legal departments, and would even encourage sane re-use of software and thus increase the general welfare, the Linux way.

  16. Re:WHAT GOES AROUND COMES.. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 5, Interesting
    People are used to getting music for free. It's called the radio. Theres just a shift in the ways and means of distributing that aspect of "our" culture.

    Copyright is largely an artificial construct, unlike theft (which certain people like to erroneously and politically link it to.) It's never really existed in any significant portion of our evolution, so (I'd say) it's not really considered a real thing: it's an artificially imposed prohibition.

    If the same principle was applied to food, or furniture, with everyone having their own little Star Trek replicators, people wouldn't respect it then, either.

    Maybe it means: since everyone has their own printing-press, making a significant living from the prohibition of duplication of a work, is nolonger feasible or realistic? Like any number of other professions (starving (visual) artists languishing in obscurity and poverty, anyone?)

    I don't think it's so much about price (though it's always a factor) as people's psychology: copyright doesn't really make sense in a world where things are easily and cheaply copyable; where the means of production and dissemination is in the hands of everyone.

    Is that noise I hear the fingernails of the copyright cartels screeching down the cliff-face of a paradigm shift?

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
  17. Copyright is not a Constitutional right by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Copyright is not a right guaranteed to Americans in the way that free speech is. While the Constitution empowers Congress to create copyright "to promote the useful arts and sciences", it doesn't actually require Congress to do so.

    Copyright could be abolished tomorrow if you could just get the votes in Congress required to pass a bill to repeal it. Sure, Dubya might veto it, but if you can get a two thirds majority in Congress, you can override a veto.

    If you don't think this can happen, consider that more Americans are trading files today than voted for George Bush. Yes, many if not most file traders are under eighteen, but political upheavals usually take time. The sort of time that would allow most of today's youthful peer-to-peer users to come of age.

    My new piece Change the Law explains this in more detail. It recommends several specific steps you can take to repeal copyright. The recommendations I give are:

    • Speak Out
    • Vote
    • Write to Your Elected Representatives
    • Donate Money to Political Campaigns
    • Support Campaign Finance Reform
    • Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation
    • Practice Civil Disobedience
    If you're under eighteen, you can do all of those things but vote. And your right to vote will come in time. The RIAA is not going to go away.

    Finally, Should Copyright Even Exist? considers the question of whether the ability of computers to make faithful copies of digital data without significant cost so outweighs any benefit that copyright may have to society, that we would be better off if copyright were eliminated entirely.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  18. Re:Amen! by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Drug patents make an interesting comparison in this respect I think. I am currently waiting for a couple of different drug patents to expire so that the companies will finally release some of the newer drugs or at least a slightly more effective variety of the same drug.

    There has been some very interesting research that I have been following, but human trials have been put off indefinitely because they see no reason to invest funds into a market that is already very profitable for them.

    One drug patent expires in 2008. I am certain that the next new development will only be released at that time. I am sure this is a common pattern. I realize that pharmaceutical companies need to make money to fund their research. It's just too bad that it's at the expense of future developments because they do not want to start competing with their current cash cows by introducing something new and better.

    I hate to imagine what our drug markets would look like if drug patents never expired. I suspect that pretty much all research would stop on any disease for which we already had at least one treatment. Why innovate if the new patented drug will not sell for any more than the old one? It could even be considered irresponsible to the shareholders to do so.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.