Slashdot Mirror


Holographic Keypads Float Into View

prostoalex writes "The New York Times tells the story of a Connecticut-based company called HoloTouch that is developing input devices that literally "float in the air". The technology will be licensed for information kiosks in New York city. Some other sample applications are available from the company's Web site. HoloTouch already managed to secure the patent on its technology."

29 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. Floating in air... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Isn't it hard enough surfing for porn with one hand already?

    1. Re:Floating in air... by grassy_knoll · · Score: 3, Funny

      porn... well, that explain why everyone keeps posting about tactile feedback.

  2. real, or just killing real invention? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Interesting
    already managed to secure the patent

    But have they really been able to build one, or are they just patenting the idea with hopes someone else will and they they can sue and get rich? I see nothing on their website (other than very obviously mocked up fake pictures) or in the patent that says they really know how to do this.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:real, or just killing real invention? by saddino · · Score: 3, Informative

      I see nothing on their website (other than very obviously mocked up fake pictures) or in the patent that says they really know how to do this.

      Huh? Their patent appears to explain exactly how to do this (hint: see the "DETAILED DESCRIPTION" section).

    2. Re:real, or just killing real invention? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Informative
      Huh? Their patent appears to explain exactly how to do this (hint: see the "DETAILED DESCRIPTION" section).

      Been there, read that. OK, maybe I just don't get it, but you tell me how The holographic image generator 200 actually manages to display a real time changing holographic image and then I'll accept that they have something. I just don't see anything in the patent or on their website that says they can really do this.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    3. Re:real, or just killing real invention? by saddino · · Score: 3, Interesting

      tell me how The holographic image generator 200 actually manages to display a real time changing holographic image

      Good question, but that's not the issue. People seem to be believe this company has invented a new type of holographic technology -- they haven't. What they've done is invented a method to accept tactile-less input from a hologram, regardless of the holographic techonology. That's why the images are fakes.

      What this company needs now is a partner who has some good holographic technology in the works.

    4. Re:real, or just killing real invention? by Suidae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, if you read the article, it describes how they take a standard film based hologram and mount it on a piece of clear plastic and then put what amounts to an IR grid above it to detect finger placement.

      This is NOT real-time holography, or 'floating in mid-air with no box behind it' holography (as the images on the website show). There is one image of they guys laptop with the device attached.

      Its still a cool idea because it would be completely spill proof and have no mechanical wear. I can see something like this being popular in industrial applications where component wear or material spills could be an issue. And it should be reasonably cheap too, because its basicly a piece of plexiglass with some IR LEDs and sensors.

  3. Re:Great... by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny
    too bad Tom Cruise isn't one step closer to being able to act.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  4. look before leap by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, but what if you only have one eye? You can't see a hologram with only one eye. There's a whole bag of "this is not handicap accessible" with their name on it.

    Not to mention, I like command line consoles. I guess its just that old style charm. I think I prefer plain old buttons under my fingers too. Maybe you could learn to type fast on a hologram, but with no physical feedback, it seems like it would be a royal pain to type at any great speed.

    --

    Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
    1. Re:look before leap by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uh... people with only one eye can't see the 3D aspect of a hologram. They can see a 2D picture just fine.

      If they move their head, then they can see the 3d aspect as well.

      One eyed folks will do just fine here.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    2. Re:look before leap by cheeseSource · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not sure that's quite right. I only have one eye and I've been able to see any holos I've looked at it's that damned 3D that I can't get past....

      Still, it's the tactile feel of the keyboard that would be hard to move away from.

      --
      (Sponsored by cheeseSource for President 2012)
    3. Re:look before leap by merlin_jim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You can't see a hologram with only one eye

      Poppy cock. Of course you can see a hologram with only one eye!

      You just can't see a stereoscopic vision allowing you to definitely position the object in three dimensional space. But the eyes use other cues than stereoscopic vision to determine position, cues like parallax and brightness, as well as ocular focus.

      --
      I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  5. One good application by Faust7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't be the only one that thinks holographic keyboards would be a great idea for public computers, just so we needn't worry about the disgusting pub-funk that seems to coat most public keyboards.

  6. Gone already by AtariAmarok · · Score: 4, Funny

    The site is slashdotted already.

    Just imagine the spectacle of "404 error" numbers flashing and floating in mid-air.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  7. Pop-Up Windows Like Never Before!! by Dr.+Shim · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh God. Just imagin if you want to go to Google.com but instead land at Gooogle.com... Or pop-ups... Or better yet... Japanese Killer Seizure Robots floating floating in your face!

    --
    People discover the meaning of life between getting piss drunk and the following hangover.
  8. Tactile Feedback is important by GillBates0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Anybody see the lack of tactile feedback as a problem? Holograms are great for unobtrusive displays like in aircraft like the story says, but once you start interacting with it, you would expect some type of feedback.

    Especially, if they plan to use this sort of thing for remote medical procedures. Imagine a doctor trying to perform a delicate surgery, without any sort of sensation of touch whatsoever.

    Maybe they'll come up with force feedback gloves or something.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  9. Yeah so... by Valiss · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have a doormat in front of my front door. It's a holodoormat, not a square drawn on the ground with chalk as someone of lesser intelligence might think. When you step on it it'll ring the door bell (after you hit the button). Anyone wanna buy one? Oh and I have 10MB images that you can download of it; and they aren't picture of my front door with a photoshopped square drawn where a doormat should be. I swear.

    --

    -Valiss
  10. Re:Is that legit? by clary · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I thought part of the patent law process was that you had to have a working model, in order to be awarded a patent?
    According to Scientific American, the requirement for a working model was rescinded in 1800, except for perpetual motion machines. ;-)
    --

    "Rub her feet." -- L.L.

  11. But could you really type on it? by KillerHamster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can see some advantages to a keyboard you wouldn't have to touch, but I don't think I could use it. The feedback I get by pressing the keys is how I know that I hit the correct one and that I pressed down far enough. The feel of the keyboard is also how I know where to position my hands without looking. I would probably have to look at something like this while I type, which would slow me down drastically.

  12. Nobody said it was evil by burgburgburg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They just pointed out that it was already patented. This isn't a ridiculous patent with an enormous amount of prior art to illustrate that it never should have been granted in the first place (AFAIK, IANAL).

  13. Re:USPTO USPOT? USOPT? SCAM? by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's nice to know that they issue patents for things that rightfully deserve patenting too.

    Can you read the patent and figure out how the "The holographic image generator 200" works? I sure can't. Maybe I'm just dense and others can point out the invcention here, but how the hell does their supposed holographic image generator 200 work? If the purpose of a patent is to disclose how a device functions, and in doing so give the inventor a limited time monopoly on the invention in return for information that becomes public knowledge and will eventually become freely useable by all, then I think this patent falls far short of this requirement. I have serious doubts that the company even invented anything at all, it looks more to me like they hope someone else will and that they can then sue them, based on having obtained a patent without actually inventing anything or provide the public any value in return for the patent.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  14. Go for it Cowboy Neal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    For some reason, the image comes to mind, unbidden:

    Cowboy Neal, marching down the street, wearing display goggles. His special custom hologram GUI/keyboard hovers in front of him (he can see it in his goggles, no one else can).

    Trying to keep Slashdot afloat, he is furiously moderating the new posts: both fists are stabbing middle fingers all over the place right and left in front of him in mid-air as he walks down the street.

    To passersby, it looks like a cross between Mike Tyson, an NYC cabbie flipping the bird out the window, the the crazy homeless man who walks around talking to himself.

  15. Sweeet... by MImeKillEr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now people won't have to strain their necks to see your pin number while shoulder surfing.

    [sarcasm]
    I can hardly wait!
    [/sarcasm]

    --
    Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
  16. Comments about device by merlin_jim · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately they didn't do their homework :(

    From the website:

    HoloTouch, images of keypads can be any size, entirely independent of the size of the hardware.

    (emphasis my own)

    From the patent:

    When a hologram is illuminated by a reconstruction beam, it produces a real image (which appears to be between the plane of the hologram and the viewer) and a virtual image (which appears to be behind the plane of the hologram). [snip] Thus, it is preferred that the holographic image 207 be a real image.

    Quick review of holography: an extremely high resolution film takes pictures of the interference pattern generated when a coherent light beam strikes an object.

    When coherent light of a similar wavelength later shines through this film, the interference patterns cause it to be shined through in exactly the same manner as the original coherent light, up to about half the resolution of the film. Most holographic film is 3000 lines per inch, so the hologram has a "resolution" of about 1500 lines per inch.

    You see an image because the light reaching your eyes through the film is exactly as it would be had the object been in front of your eyes and illuminated by the original beam.

    The light reaching your eyes is coming through the film and then traveling in a straight line from the film to your eyes. You can only see such light if the holograph is directly behind it, because the path of the photons cannot change after it passes through the hologram (disregarding minor lensing effects due to the atmosphere, that is)

    What does this mean? Well if the hologram appears to be one half meter in front of you and the holographic film is one meter in front of you, and the holographic image appears to be 10 cm x 10 cm, then the minimum possible size for the holographic film is 20 cm x 20 cm.

    I don't call that entirely independent; as a matter of fact, it's a pretty simple relationship governed by a version of the inverse square law.

    Oh, an interesting fact about it is if you take a holographic film and cut it in half, because all the information about the image is stored throughout the film, you don't have half a hologram; you have a hologram of the entire object that is half the size of the original. Pretty cool stuff actually.

    --
    I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
    1. Re:Comments about device by merlin_jim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, from http://nths.newtrier.k12.il.us/academics/math/Conn ections/light/hologrsn.htm

      Amazingly, a hologram may be cut in half and you will still see the entire image. And you can cut one of the pieces in half again and again and see the entire image. Every part of the hologram has received and recorded light from the entire object!

      Now how does it work? Basically, a film hologram is more than just a fancy trick you are playing with light; the entire piece of film is involved in recreating the image. Every piece of film holds all of the information about the object and they all contribute to the whole. By reducing the size of the film; you simply reduce the size of the object.

      A better explanation: http://www.emergentmind.org/miller-webbI3b.htm

      oh and as for other neat treaks with film holograms? Let's say you have a complicated, fussy optics array. You spend days tuning it and getting it perfectly in focus. Now let's say this optics array is going to be used to focus the aiming laser on an abrams tank. Or as the projection lens for the periscope in a submarine.

      You COULD ruggedize the whole setup, and field tune it occasionally.

      But you could also use holography; you take a hologram of the entire setup, and the hologram acts exactly like the original optics, up to the resolution of the hologram, at the wavelength you used. You can make what's called a whitelight or broadband hologram.

      I don't know why the eyeglasses companies haven't latched onto this. Cheap, light eyeglasses that don't need to be ground or anything. Just cut out the shape to fit the eyepiece, patch it in, and go.

      --
      I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  17. patent shmatent by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How and why in the "f" word did they get to patent this "invention?" I have a serious problem with this and here is what it is: The patent system exists in order that inventors can get a temporary monopoly on their invention as incentive to tell the world how it is done, so that humanity as a whole can benefit from it long after it is no longer a viable business for the inventor. By this definition, and yes, I know that the patent system is all screwed up, shouldn't inventors at least be required to demonstrate a working, functioning, real invention before they can secure a patent on it? It is obvious that this company did not actually get this friggen thing to work. By that logic, I should be able to patent about 100 ideas that I have every day, just because they would be cool if they ever worked, but won't, because I'm not actually going to build it, and nobody else will either, until the patent expires, because I am going to charge ridiculous fees for the use of my valuable intellectual property, which doesn't exist, not only because it is simply an idea that has no physical incarnation, but also because nobody has ever built the damn thing before.

    And if, by some fscked up logic, you are allowed to patent ideas that have no implementation, what's stopping all the movie producers who portrayed things like this in their movies from patenting this or any other idea seen in a futuristic movie. Hey, I got one... How 'bout patenting cyborgs? Hmmm... Good deal.

  18. Optical Illusion workaround by MickLinux · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Okay, just assuming that this is a case in which they haven't invented anything, and it is actually a good idea [neither of which I feel able to judge], here is a workaround, NOW PUBLIC DOMAIN!

    Instead of making holographic keypads, make use of the double-parabolic-mirror optical illusion. You know the kind, shown in Edmund Scientific, where there are floating coins in the air. That is clearly not a hologram, but it would work just as well.

    If you feel at all inclined to make something, bookmark this reply!

    - MickLinux

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  19. Summary of actual hardware by asmithmd1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here is a summary of some people who have a real live working invention, not something they just thought up that might be possible one day

  20. Killer App for PDA's by jafac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Right now, the main limiting factor in PDA adoption (IMHO) is size. They're too darned big, they don't fit nicely into my pocket. Perhaps something the size of a credit card would be well protected in my wallet - but then the screen and input devices are too small -

    Hence - this device would be the savior of the PDA industry.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.