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EU Says Microsoft's Abuses Are Ongoing
levell writes "Although the legal difficulties Microsoft was having in the US seem to be drawing to a close, it's not yet over in the EU. In this story, the BBC reports that the EU says it is still abusing its monopoly with Windows Media Player, and perhaps more interestingly from a Linux point of view, also in the low-end server market. The story is also being covered on CNN, Ananova, Reuters, etc." The EU's press release is informative.
Actually, both the OS and the Office sales are the true cash cows for Microsoft. The bundling of software for free to eliminate competition on the other hand is not legal.
"Light is faster than sound." - "Is that why people tend to look bright until you hear them speak?"
EU is the largest free trade area in the world. Both in terms of population and overall GDP.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
If Microsoft are found guilty, penalize, and then perisist, they may well be prohibited from trading in Europe completely. The EU has the authorization to demand a complete blockade of a given company's products from all member nations, and has the power to restrict trading to any nation that does trade with them.
(The US got nervous with EU privacy laws, for this reason, as the EU made it very clear they'd embargo any nation that bought or sold personal information without strict privacy protections being in place. I think that actually ended up in a small trade-war, for a while.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Mplayer for linux of course comes with all the codecs but windows users gotta install the fucking players with all their spyware and bloat.
But I then imidiatly install someting like Bsplayer (fast opening from linux shares) or Media player classic (good fullscreen controls and no osd crap). I think all of the three mentioned players are worse then crap, the orginal windows media player was okay but lately they all seem to go out of their way to obfuscate the simple playing of video files.
I had hopes for the Helix project from realmedia, hopes that you now could simply get the codecs. This however doesn't seem to have happened.
Am I the only one who finds it slightly odd that these companies attempt to charge money twice? Once to the encoder (content creator) and once more for the player (consumer)? In the real world you only get to charge once for a product. Imagine that Shell said Ford had to have a license to use their fuel. Or that Bridgestone came to youre house for payment for the tires that came with youre car.
Oh well, serves me right for still having my main machine run windows I suppose. (everything else is linux but I love my games to much)
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
IIRC, the fine can be up to 10% of turnover (ca. GBP1.7bn) every year they're found to be infringing.
OK, so it'll take quite a while to burn through their cash reserves, but you've got to start somewhere...
So far the best article on this issue I could find is here. What the article dowsn't say, but the Bloomberg radio commentary did mention, the EU seems to be financing its budget deficit by imposing fines, which makes the fairness of the whole process a little questionable.
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Mac OS does NOT have a "built-in" browser. Safari is easy to remove and is not integrated with the OS. Only the (open source) WebKit frameworks must be kept for other applications to use. The browser itself can be removed easily.
The media player is similarly not built in. While you need QuickTime for virtually all multimedia, you can easily replace the QuickTime Player with any program you choose (I generally use MPlayer OS X, for example, and replace DVD Player with VLC).
As to your final point ("...it's not considered to be anticompetive! Why? Because it doesn't have as much market share, and Apple is the "little guy"!!"), the reason the US goverment doesn't care is because Apple is not a monopoly. Not because they are the "little guy", but because they aren't a monopoly.
Quicktime isn't a file format as such, and there's way more to it than the player which most end-users see. Quicktime is a full media API, the first one that I'm aware of (though I imagine someone will correct me there - perhaps an SGI user?).
An example of a Quicktime use. An old Mac freeware app I wrote, Startupfrills, set a startup picture to show as a Mac booted up. It could handle JPEG, GIF, PNG, TIFF, TGA...you name it. And I never wrote a single line of image format-handling code. Just told Quicktime that I had a media file and would like an image data structure please. The same can be done for movie file formats, sound...a full blown multimedia API.
A better analogy in the MS world would be DirectShow. Not that I've done any DirectX development, but as I understand it you can add support for new file formats to the existing MS APIs via DirectShow filters. From then on, your MS API-based media app can make use of the new file format without ever knowing what it is.
Cheers,
Ian
I was going to mod you as Troll, but since you seemed so concerned about your precious Karma, I'll reply instead.
...to include a product that is evolving with technology to 'put down' legacy media players??
Realplayer has certainly tried to beat them in the realm of streaming content, but due to such little things as shit for quality and lack of content, they didn't do so well.
That's because M$ was able to push their format as a result of their monopoly. You're confusing the result with the cause.
Quicktime has really always been a Mac format,...
Bullshit. It runs on Windows & OS X which is BSD-based. Hardly a Mac-only (old style) product.
what legacy products???
Take a look at what Microsoft has done to other products as a result of their monopoly (Netscape, Lotus, Sybase) and try to learn something from History.
there's no place like ~
Maybe people just prefer Windows because it is superior and has the most software support?
No, the primary reason that Windows is more popular is because of hardware costs. The PC has now become a commodity item, like TV's and DVD players. Most PHB's only look at the hardware costs before buying a platform, not the support costs after buying the platform. If they looked at the TOC they would find Linux (and possibly even MacOS X, though the hardware is expensive) would be lower than a WinBox.
I think Winamp 3 is a competitor to Media Player. It's free and it now supports almost any video file type; it's pretty much all I use. And you can get cool skins and stuff; it's compact, easy-to-use, and doesn't take forever to load like Media Player does (I hate Media Player). It's uber cool.
The Present is the point at which time touches eternity. - C.S. Lewis
I beg to differ.
/really/ nice, and AAC audio is also pretty killer once you've eclipsed the 160-200 Kbps mark. Makes for GREAT streams at 128 Kbps.
;-)
QuickTime, market share woes aside, whips Windows Media. MPEG-4 streaming is
In fact, QuickTime was chosen as the basis for MPEG-4. It can't be THAT bad.
The QuickTime container itself is also really great for enhanced multimedia (see the stuff on BMWfilms.com). Better than anything else I've seen yet.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
It has all the features that Windows has
I knew there was a reason I hadn't bought one
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I really don't think so. People sometime complain that if we achieve the goal of killing MS, that we'll lose all the innovation they contribute.
Frankly, this is bull. You want facts?
Read http://microsuck.com/content/whatsbad.shtml
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
Infact the maximum fine the EU can impose is 10% of world [not just EU] turnover. The reason it is world turn over is to stop some companies saying they have no turn over in the EU yet still trade there and cause offence (AOL up to a month ago was an exanmple of a company who claimed no EU turnover (A VAT dodge)).
James
If no one posted it already, this link is interesting. It points to the summary of the complaints that started said case.
I was just looking forward to hear from it again.
17 pages, but if one cares to read, there is much more into it than "Media Player bundled with Windows is evil".
-><- no
Go ahead and force MS to sell those in the EU a copy w/o WMP. Now EU users will be forced to pay $30 to $40 to Real, Music Match, Quicktime, etc. to get the same functionality they get for free with WMP.
You don't get it. Do you really think WMP, IE, etc are all free? THEY ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF WINDOWS!
Microsoft has been doing the same thing for many years. Anyone remeber Stacker?
They find a successful add-on software application and build it into the OS. Since it comes with the OS, their competition dies, and they just raise the price of Windows a Little.
Life is too short to proofread.
Go ahead and force MS to sell those in the EU a copy w/o WMP. Now EU users will be forced to pay $30 to $40 to Real, Music Match, Quicktime, etc. to get the same functionality they get for free with WMP.
RealOne player: Here, free.
MusicMatch : Here, free.
QuickTime: Here, free.
You were saying?
(Oh, don't forget Winamp! Probrably the best of the bunch, IMHO.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Just let the market work itself out, the end product will be better, and you won't be giving the already oversized government a chance to increase its power.
/. should know this better than most. Again, this is bad. If I give you software for free knowing that it will help my bottom line in the end simply due to market share and sales of other softwares, this is bad. And if let be, MS will use all of it's might to see that it doesn't "lose". You see, the bigger guy has many more resources to trounce the other guy. Not helping the little guy simply because he is little actually hurts you and the market. Believe me, "leveling" the playing field actually "helps" you, the consumer. In practice this will actually allow the better product to rise to the top. This is good. Many are saying the field isn't level, and that it isn't level due to direct practices by M$. This is against the law, as it should be. This isn't the "land of the large corporation", they're only goal is to make more money. Leaving them unchecked is about as dangerous as it gets. Please understand this.
The government is simply an extension of the people. Giving more power to the people seems like the way it should be.
You seem to either forego much of the true history of things concerning the Standard Oil case, or simpy do not understand why it was done, and why MS is similarly being looked at. The Gulf inroads were minor on comparison, and Standard was well on it's way to "overcoming" those pesky guys anyway. Standard became more powerful than the government and the people were completely dependent upon them. This was bad
Monopolies have an ever increasing amount of leverage to maintain those monopolies, which is bad. You see, Linux may very well have been much much further into the market if it wasn't for these practices, which has nothing to do with the "best tool for the job" rising to the top. We at
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
Your trying to rewrite PC History.
Prior to the unleashing of Win95, computer makers choose what software to bundle. Quite a few bundled non-microsoft applications with windows 3.x. My first 386/sx came with a media player (Audio Rack), contact management (lotus organizer), IBM DOS, PFS Windows Works, and Windows 3.11. Freebies and discounted software included CDs from Norton, Lantastic, Aol, Prodigy, Genie, Compuserve, Borland etc.
When Microsoft came out with Win95, all that competition ended when they changed the terms for what software could be bundled with Windows. They also dictated to computer makers what software could be sold with thier systems at the risk of loosing thier windows license.
Today with a windows XP PC, you have less choices in software out of the box than your average 3 CD boxed Linux distribution.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
EU commissioners usually are well known politicians in their country of origin but relatively unknown by Europeans in general. They aren't elected but nominated by their national governments. They are usually relatively incorruptible (compared to corruption in European countries, which is low on a worldwide scale). On the whole EU commissioners are excellent representatives of the people's interests.
People often laugh or get annoyed at the "bureaucracy" in Brussels. Just like at the level of the US Federal govt it is often necessary to put the smallest of details into writing to accomodate minority interests and to be fair to all in as many cases as possible. If you review EU proposed legislation over the decades you can see that they have created extremely beneficial legislation.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
Hiya. This is either a lie or a troll, or referring to events from ~4 years ago in a confused fashion.
Are you aware of any current issues involving WMP9 conflicting in some fashion with QuickTime? If not, please stop trolling. If so, please do explain specifically.
Note: While here solely on my own time (heck, I'm on vacation anyways) and speaking solely on my own behalf (as always), I'm the guy who wrote that WMP installer. I've personally met with QuickTime people to help them understand how the Netscape plug-in architecture works, so ummmmm... I don't know about anyone else, but I Play Nice and since I'm in charge of the installer, if YOU don't think it's playing nice, you'll need to be specific so that people like me who care can fix the issue if it exists/is possible to fix on the MS side. If you want to take the conversation off of slashdot, you can reach me at zachdms at hotmail. I take this kind of thing dead seriously, as I have since I first started working at MS seven years ago. I was weaned on Apple computers, so I'd rather eat a pile of vomit than ever deliberately muss up their software. They're good people. And I've got friends at RealNetworks too. I'm certainly never going to do anything bad professionally or otherwise to either company, so if you've got some kind of problem, it's either a misunderstanding or a bug. Never ever deliberate. I'd quit before I'd ever do anything like that, and I've frankly absolutely never been asked to do anything of the sort.
What a toadying load of bollocks The commissioners need lining up against the wall and shooting for the crap they wield on us
while(karma less_than enough_karma){karma++}
Compaq Evo's
Go to www.compaq.com
This will redirect you to h18000.www1.hp.com
Click on the Business Desktops link
Click on the "hp Compaq Business Desktop d500 series"
Read the blurb that says "Compaq Evo D500 Series PCs continue to redefine industry-leading value with the latest technologies and updated processor speeds. Other D500 Series features include:"
Sucks to be you.
"Why isn't Roxio or nero screaming at Windows Xp for bundling CD burning right in the OS"
Cause they licenced from Roxio!!!!!!!
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
So, no, IE cannot effectively be removed although you can probably remove the stub that loads the libraries. This would be kinda like removing "startx" and then claiming that you've removed the X windowing system - all you'd have accomplished is removing a stub.
BTW - on the subject of Windows Media Player, while I do truly detest that program, it is not spyware, it does not contain ads, it is perfectly capable of reading DVDs and playing them (...but it doesn't come with a software DVD codec - you have to purchase that separately, and even then DVDs on WMP are less than stellar...). WMP6 was a nice little player. I liked it. WMP7 started sucking since they went the RealPlayer route of too many pretty colored widgets that distract from the actual task of playing media.
Also on the subject of WMP, it has the ultimate trump on the "extensions war" that various media players play. I installed Media Player Classic and instructed Windows to open all my movie files through it, but they would still open in WMP. After going through HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT and verifying that yes indeed the registry entries were set correctly and confirming that Windows Explorer indicated that it thought MPC should be opening the files, I finally realized that I needed to go into WMP and find its file options and remove the movie files from its list.
After doing that, movies now render in MPC just like I want them to. *grumble*
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Two words "open systems". Anyone can bundle their software with Linux (or Solaris for that matter). Everything is "open".
Not the case with Windows, hence the abuse charges. Understand that and all will fall into place for you.
-- Free software on every PC on every desk
Tax rates in the EU are not 'very high'...
Tax rates in the EU are a lot higher than in the US. The total tax burden in most EU countries is also much higher. In the US the various levels of govenment (i.e. everything from federal to local), spend about 30% of GDP. In the EU it is typically somewhere between 40% and 50%. You can see the latest OECD figures here.
Unemployment is also not 'very high', as you suggest.
But is is consistently much higher than the US. Even at its peak the unemployment rate in the US was much lower than the rates in most EU countries. Historically the rates in EU countries like France and Germany have been about double the rate in the US, and even now the US rate is much lower. If you take a look at the standardised rates published by the OECD then the US was at about 6% in '02, while many EU countries were at about 9% (France, Germany, Italy, Spain). The rate in the UK was closer to the US rate.
I'd suggest taking a look at the US' rapidly rising unemployment rate, a value that shows no signs of declining
I suggest you take a look here, where you will find the following claim:
The unemployment rate was 6.2 percent in July; the number of unemployed
persons was 9.1 million. Both measures edged down over the month...
So in addition to a larger GDP, and per capita disposable income, the US also has far lower tax rates, and a far lower unemployment. Over the last ten years or so the US growth rate has also been much higher than in the EU, so the differences are likely to increase not decrease.
Your ideal voting system sounds like the French presidential elections, yeah it would give smaller candidates a platform and a lot of votes and then in the finals it would add issues that were important in the initial elections to the final elections.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.