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US Navy buys Apple as Linux Platform
Nine Mirrors Turning writes "According to the Register the US Navy has ordered 260 XServe servers running Yellow Dog Linux from Terra Soft Solutions. Terra Soft is the only reseller allowed to resell Apple hardware with a third-party operating system installed. The XServes will be modified by a unnamed third-party and will be running a custom kernel. The XServes are destined for US Navy submarines and will be used for real-time image processing. I do wonder how many will be installed on each sub, though. Are we talking clustering here? I didn't even know the USN was running Linux on front-line ships."
I'm a Mac developer, so I have a love of the platform. But using XServes just to run Linux seems kind of strange at this time. The only systems Apple currently sells with decent performance with full exploitation of DDR are the recently released G5 towers. I would think that Apple would need to update the XServer line before such Linux use would make sense, since that OS currently runs better on Intel/AMD iron.
Those who complain about affect & effect on
Actually, armored cavalry and selected mechanized infantry units have exchanged their radios for NT 4.0 based chat applications.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
when you think about it - some of the key advantages that Apple technologies have slot in perfectly with what customers like the Navy would want. The G4 and the rest of the PPC line work very well in specialised applications where vectorisation can take place (and when they're being used for one specific application, this optimisation can be done), and what's more they'll perform very well while putting out less heat and using up less power.
When you're on a sub that requires every inch of space to be utilised, these are attributes that make a computing system very attractive.
Once Apple deploys the G5s into these puppies, I think there's going to be a lot of organisations looking at their present hardware rigs in a very critical light.
-- james
Why not use cheap intel hardware seems like a really strange question in this context. If memory serves, subs run in the 100s of billions of dollars a unit. And the nuclear ones stay down six months at a stretch. No Fed-ex delivery of replacement parts. You can't buy Dells with 28% return rates. "Uhm, Captin, the computer is down again. Can you tell the Admiral that we're going to have to take it off-line again while I trouleshoot." Don't think so.
The more interesting question is why Apple instead of Sun hardware. Given the XServes were supposedly originally designed to the NIH's specs, it may be that they're the most cost-effective answer to the problem.
And... completely off topic... can someone please tell Mr. Bush that outside of Texas it's nuclear, not nuke-u-leer.
the clock on the wall says 4 til 7
I'm just surprised with out noise concious submarine captains/designers are that they'd want Xserves. from everything i've heard, pretty much all 1U hardware is damn noisey. guess the space is worth more than the price.
It's probably not image processing, but more like processing sonar into images. I beleive the US sub fleet has had this type of system for a few years now. It can take any sonar info, passive (underwater microphones) or active (ping), and create some sort of image out of it and spit out an at least rough guestimate as to what it is (dolphin, ship, fishing boat, photon torpedo, etc). They may be even further along than that, I'm not sure.
The article says the deal includes 260 XServes and is "worth $1.9 million in hardware alone." Since these are being used for "High Performance Computing," presumably they are Cluster Node XServes, which are designed for exactly that. So why is the average price per system $1,900,000/260 = $7300, when the Cluster Node XServe goes for $2799 retail? Is the Navy getting a lot of extra hardware to go with this?
having worked on a few govt. programs using DSP and software radios - the G4 is the defacto standard used by folks.. but usually running VxWorks and using proprietary solutions like this one where the accepted use is to buy some dual or quad PPC single board computers.
.almost ALWYAS less than 500Mhz G4's. In fact, this 466 is a model i've never seen before. A project i worked on was using state of the art 300 Mhz G4's. Many of these solutions alos run near the $10k price range.
The problem is that in almost every case - like the one i referenced, these systems are still.. today..
In fairness, many of these SBCs are built to extreme timing tolerances, have insane backplane speed and often have RF gear built in... in the case of real-time processing. you _have_ to have this, and therefore, these costs are justified.
But a lot of the time, they simply wanted to use them for post-processing of data.. not real time.. so everything you made up in speed on these highly custom boards was useless...
i always wondered - silently - wtf is wrong with you people (engineers who come up with the "requirement" to run SBCs for post processing")? You can get 1U dual 1 GHz G4's to run the SAME SOFTWARE for 1/3 the price? Why won't you even concider it? ARRRGH!!!!
Well, it seems that there is some very very very very brave program manager in the Navy who stuck his/her neck out and proved what i always thought in silence... that this buying of slow G4-based SBC's to do DSP post processing was stupid and silly. The answer was to get some Xserves and do it two to 4 times as fast for 1/3 the money.
This is not so much a coup for TerraSoft - though, of course, they did the "hard work"... but let me tell you.. whoever the Navy PM was took a LOT of shit for their suggestion to use Macs. I guarantee you that.
I hope we'll be able to find out who that PM was.. i'd liek to talk to them and find out how they made the sell...
Apple computer is a BAD WORD in the Government.. and this was really a coup on the part of everyone involved... but don't think that its a novel idea or somehow "amazing". Using dozens of rack-mount G4 macs has been the elephant in the middle of the room solution to literally thousands of DoD problems for at least 5 years... its actually pretty pathetic and sad how long it took for it to make it to prime time.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Certainly it's cheaper to get the Xserve sans OS X. From the article -- "We're the only Apple reseller on the planet with a licence to install a non-Apple operating system," says Staats.
Regardless I always thought the whole Apple advantage was the way having hardware and OS under one roof allowed you to make great "gestaltic" solutions. Why pay the Xserve premium and get G4 powered rack hardware to install an OS that's available for cheaper, and argueably better supported, x86 hardware? (And I've been a Mac user for over a decade and even tried out YDL and LPPC a couple of times... this isn't flame bait.)
Still, either Yellow Dog must be doing *something* better than Red Hat is (maintenance price?) or they must be running something that was designed *explicitly for* AltiVec.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Actually some nuclear subs have had swimming pools.
. ht ml
7 /s eawolf10.html
The Typhoon (NATO name) nuclear missile submarine has a swimming pool in it.
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/23/38544_
"...crew's rest area is like a club with lots of conveniences. There is a gym, a sauna, and even a pool there. We saw some submariners swimming there, having good time at work."
http://arms.host.sk/navy/941.htm
Modern American submarines all have air conditioning aboard.
http://www.dt.navy.mil/pao/excerpts%20pages/199
"In addition, we have conducted many trials on actual and smaller scale components and systems on the Large Scale Vehicle (Kokanee) and other test platforms, as well as the actual Seawolf, itself. Some of the many unclassified equipment items in which the Division played a large part include: - Air conditioning compressors"
http://www.usscod.org/fact.html
"Habitability is heavily stressed in the construction of modern submarines. Specially designed color schemes, mechanical conveniences, air conditioning, and the best chow in the Navy are supplied to make the vessels more livable. A full time staff is maintained by Electric Boat Division to work out 'human engineering' problems."
Most slashdotters are too young to remember, but Former President Carter also uses that annoying pronunciation. And he has an advanced degree in nuclear physics (as well as having been a submarine guy)!
secondly, military subs are not cruise liners.
Never been on one, huh? Submariners get the very best of everything, within the constraints imposed by their mission. They're stuffed into tin cans at the bottom of the ocean for months at a time, but they get the best food and facilities that it's humanly possible to give to them. Yes, American SSBN's and SSGN's have air conditioning, saunas, exercise rooms, the whole nine yards.
Morale is very important to the submarines' strategic mission.
Just wondering...
Keep in mind that the VIRGINIA class is designed without traditional periscopes. Instead high-definition cameras will take the place of the traditional optical periscope. So you can imagine why you'd want to be able to do some serious image manipulation.
Of course sonar systems would benefit from compute servers as well.